View Full Version : Uses for the Butterfly Palm Sequences in Hung Gar?

09-03-2000, 06:25 AM
Just wondering on what applications my fellow hung gar brothers (and maybe sisters) have found when using the butterfly palm sequences in our forms. At first i had a tough time applying the technique (especially blocking down low and then trying to move in for the push). What other applications have found for this particular technique?

Peace /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

09-03-2000, 06:29 AM
butterfly palm is not used only to block and push. it can be used as an arm break or used to parry a strike. combined with elements butterfly palm is awesome, it happens to be one of my favs. dont just think of it as block and push, examine all areas of the technique.

Wah Ren Jie
09-03-2000, 06:29 AM
Butterfly palms can lead into applications for all the animal techniques. It's really difficult to use wu dip jueng unless the attacker really commits to the punch though.Peace!!!

Paul Skrypichayko
09-03-2000, 07:13 AM
Butterfly palm is very useful and can be used in many situations. Straight punch or sun punch is just one technique you can use it on, you can further use it on most strikes and kicks.

Most people dont like to practice kei lun bo (kei lun footwork), so most people can't get the basics of this move. If you have good footwork and know how to coordinate the side stepping and stepping in with the handwork, then you should almost have it.

The three ideas with the hands are; choon, hoon, and then deep jeung.

09-03-2000, 07:59 AM
hey sei ping dai ma and manfukuen, are you guys from yee's?

Peace /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

09-03-2000, 08:09 AM
As with all of our moves, the butterfly palm has many variations, the one that i mentioned was the one i had the most trouble with because of the utilization of the unicorn step (ala gung gee). Also the block and push is the primary application so that is why i mentioned it.

Mentioning the elements and what not gets into some complicated stuff because you have the internal stuff going on (if thats your focus, so that is one element), or you can have a totally different one happening because you are concentrating on the state of mind (fighting intent, a totally different element). Many schools of thought can be applied to that situation. Plus each lineage teaches it differently.

Peace /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by illusionfist (edited 09-03-2000).]

09-03-2000, 02:17 PM
Hey I would like to hear from the hark yau yang Hung Gar clan? has anyone eles heard of this style?

09-04-2000, 12:02 AM
Hi all,

I'm not a Hung Gar practitioner but I like the style. Just curious about Butterfly Palm.
Wouldn't it be a highly effective "sticky hand" technique similar to those of Wing Chun and Tai Chi. The unicorn steps seem to be excellent footwork with the Wudipp Jeung which not only covers the entire front like a moving shield. Wouldn't it uses the word "Lau" and/or "Won" to creat some sort of a air shield effect which allows you to stick to your opponent without him sticking onto you? Pardon my limited knowledge on the style. Hope I didn't confuse everyone. Just a thought.


Contraria Sunt Complementa

09-04-2000, 03:47 PM
Where's Je Lei at??

Mantis- I have been able to use this technique many times in push hands and free sparring but i have always had to stick. What do you mean by not sticking and air shield? As for not sticking (or at least kind of what i gather)the butterfly palm diverts the attack away from you because as someone mentioned earlier, they have committed to the attack and now they have crossed their plane (with the techniques assistance of course), but you had to stick initially. As for the opponent, the person doesn't have a choice really because they are off balance, so i guess he/she can't stick. I usually had to use the unicorn step to get out of the way of a kick or set myself up at angle that made it easy to uproot my opponent from the side. This technique is pretty good at getting to the opponents ribs and shoulder with minimum effort.

Peace out /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by illusionfist (edited 09-05-2000).]

09-04-2000, 10:44 PM
Hi Illusionfist,

Thanks for the response. Frankly, I do not fully understand the Wudipp Jeung. That's why is so interesting to learn from those who know. I had on one occassion stick hand with a Hung Gar Sihing (he takes TCPM as well). He used to say that there is a "boxed" area in front of the body. The two bridges defend this area without leaving. The interception moves (blocks),that he used, were like air cusions and he sticked really well. I am not sure if it was the footwork or the bridge work that gave me a hard time keeping balance let a lone sticking to his bridges. That's why I ask if it is the Wudipp Jeung that trained this?

Anyway, I am not a Hung Gar player but I found Hung Gar fasinating.


Contraria Sunt Complementa

09-16-2000, 01:41 AM
The butterfly palm usually sets up the tiger claws among other traping moves.

11-09-2000, 12:38 AM
pretty clueless. You guys are looking at a sequence and seeing just the sequence. Hung Gar forms are teaching concepts, not specific techniques. Butterfly palms can be broken up into a myriad of techniques, depending upon how you look at it. I will give you just a few examples:
KayLin Bo the first section of the sequence can be separated and used as a simultaneous sweep(shin to shin) coupled with a palm strike/knifehand strike to the base of the skull, (high-my personal preference) or kidneys/spine(low)
The combination huen sao,and palm(pak-sao)
this can be:
1) a joint lock to wrist and elbow (arm bar)
2) trap at the wrist and elbow break
3) elbow lock(snake your right arm under his right elbow)
4) neck break -grab the head and twist (dragon plays with the ball)
5)double arm trap vs double push/grab-left upward-outward fook sao,right hand downward-outward fook-sao,rotate the arms and voila! this can go right into a hip throw
6) make the move larger and it becomes Hungry Tiger Catches the Lamb
7)make it still larger and you can intercept a kick and either dump the opponent, or
8) same leg trap,then reverse the direction and perform the movement smaller and it becomes a (koto-geashi type) locking/breaking ankle throw.
I could go on....

these are but a few variations of one "technique".Take the moves out of your forms, break them down and look at them from different angles,attacks,defense, various body parts. All movements in Hung Gar,for one are to be looked at as final techniques,i.e each part stands on its own(can still be used in rapid fire combinations,though)each "block" is a strike-it just depends on where and how. ALL techniques have a joint lock, vital point, and takedown-your mission Jim,should you decide to accept it-find the techniques, find the concepts. Otherwise you will have this ridiculous running around kayLin bo crap that never works unless your opponent is your cooperative training partner on your carpeted mo-gwoon floor(fa kuen-sow geurk)

11-09-2000, 12:53 AM
Ten tigers- thank you for your post, your views are much appreciated.

The reason why i brought up the unicorn step sequence is because that is usually the first application that people learn. The applications that you mentioned are leaning towards a concepts approach, which fine and welcomed. The approach that you took is actually what i was looking for because it led to different variations that actually combined other faht, thus making infinite variations.

I agree with you on your view of hung gar and its concepts and i do believe that we must look at it from a concept perspective.

Peace /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Ben Gash
11-12-2000, 06:31 PM
I'm not a Hung Gar guy, but I know this sequence from Choy Li Fut. My favourite application is as a counter to a grab, where you break the grip (the circling), lock the arm (the draw in), and then break the elbow (the double push). The unicorn step allows you to disrupt your opponent's balance, in the same way as an aikido guy would.

"Weapons are the embodiments of fear,
the wise use them only when they have no choice"
Lao Tzu