The siege is over.....

[Souljah]

The gunman found dead (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2644309.stm)

Well this has been subject close to me as it was in hackney, where i live. About a 5 min walk from my house.
I cant help but think that the story of him being "found" dead is a cover up. I seriously wouldnt be surprised if they actually killed him and this is the weak cover.

anyone wanna comment on it?

[red5angel]

I'm not sure about England but usually there isn't much need for Policemen to cover up the death of an armed gunmen in a siege. The guy is most likely going to shoot himself anyway, an armed siege is the act of a desperate man who has usually accepted his own death as the outcome. Otherwise the police are within their right in my opinion to pop the guy if need be.

[Souljah]

well,

he had a hostage until sunday.
and then there was a fire which they say 'he probably' caused.
Its all just abit too fishy..
Just popping him would not be good for PR, which is the main stance that was taken. NOW, 15 years ago that place would have been stormed or snipers given the go ahead and the seige would have only lasted a couple of days.

Its abit different than in the states I was told.
there (as my aunt from texas claims), if he was considered a major threat it would have been stun grenades and poison in the chicken they were sending him.

[red5angel]

Well, poisons a bit extreme, usually its flash bang grenades and a bum rush.
There was a hostage situation just down the street from my house a few years ago. The guy at one point ordered pizza, so one o fthe cops dressed up as the delivery guy, delivered a pizza and a six pack of coke, one can had a flash bang grenade in it. As soon as the door opened the grenade went off and they rushed the guy.
Usually in the states they try to take the guy alive but in general shoting to kill an armed gunmen isn't out of the ordinary really. In this case I see no reason really for conspiracies other then as you said PR, but it can't hurt you if the guy is armed and trying to burn down the place, while hlding a hostage or two. Just seems like an extreme example for conspiracy theories.

[Sharky]

apperently gun crimes have gone up by 35-40% in england and wales since last year.

seems like it's only the bad guys that have them.

[Souljah]

It must be the farmers shooting trespassers or anyone abusing thier sheep.

Imean, at school there were a few fools with guns with no bullets, I have noticed the amount of guns crime has increased but i didnt know that much.
Man I really think 5 years min. for gun possesion is a little steep.

red, its just the cloudy-ness surrounding the whole story. Just makes me believe the worst. Of course, there was nothing wrong with taking out the guy as he WAS a threat, but its the possibility of them covering it up that bothers me.
ahh but thats the way it is i guess, nothing much 1 guy can do about it....is there......?
:( :( :(

[Royal Dragon]

What are the gun laws in wales and england?

[red5angel]

What is it that leads you to believe something fishy? Is he someone who might be in the know about certain stuff?

[Souljah]

cant own one without a licence (tests passed and stuff), registered with a gun club, police check of your home and where you keep your gun, and a agreement of sorts that you will only use your gun at the range or something.
isnt this the sameas in the us?

[Andrew]

No one wanted to storm the house, because the police did not want to risk any of their people.

[Souljah]

yes, because of the belief that there were a few kegs of oil or something, and the possibilty of it being a trap....whats your point?



What is it that leads you to believe something fishy? Is he someone who might be in the know about certain stuff?

he?
well just the shady info given on the topic is enough to bring about these thoughts.....not pointing any fingers, there isnt and will be no press realease about this being a cover-up, simple as that. I will not be able to prove any of my (or alot of people i've talked to who were watching or close by) suspicians'. But that does not mean they are wrong and misplaced. They could have every possible validity. Until some hard proof is given people will continue to have these doubts...
but then again it doesnt really matter. They took him out or he died from smoke inhalation, it really has no significance apart from the possible point that they are lying to the public....which is why I posted this post

Its just that the story just looks like a movie script that hasnt been spell-checked.

[Sharky]

are you sure about those gun laws souljah?

i thought you couldn't own one at all?

hence why gun club members were ****ed off?

[Souljah]

Well yea the law has been changed now since the 5 year thing, but before that was the law.....

[Ford Prefect]

In England, citizens are completely barred from owning firearms. Of course, violent crime involving firearms has been steadily climbing since the ban. It made a huge leap in the last year as well. Most anti-gun control advocates will point to England as an example on why extreme gun laws do not work.

[Radhnoti]

"In the two years following the 1997 handgun ban, the use of handguns in crime rose by 40 percent, and the upward trend has continued. From April to November 2001, the number of people robbed at gunpoint in London rose 53 percent.

Gun crime is just part of an increasingly lawless environment. From 1991 to 1995, crimes against the person in England’s inner cities increased 91 percent. And in the four years from 1997 to 2001, the rate of violent crime more than doubled. Your chances of being mugged in London are now six times greater than in New York. England’s rates of assault, robbery, and burglary are far higher than America’s, and 53 percent of English burglaries occur while occupants are at home, compared with 13 percent in the U.S., where burglars admit to fearing armed homeowners more than the police. In a United Nations study of crime in 18 developed nations published in July, England and Wales led the Western world’s crime league, with nearly 55 crimes per 100 people. ... The English government has effectively abolished the right of Englishmen, confirmed in their 1689 Bill of Rights, to "have arms for their defence," insisting upon a monopoly of force it can succeed in imposing only on law-abiding citizens. It has come perilously close to depriving its people of the ability to protect themselves at all, and the result is a more, not less, dangerous society."
Source: reason.com

These statistics are made all the more outrageous when you consider England's (previously) incredibly low violent crime rate. I consider this a cautionary tale that U.S. citizens should heed. :(