lifting - a waste of time

[ricksitterly]

I love lifting weights, but only when no other means of building muscle is available to me. The human body was not meant to pick up heavy metal objects and put them down again. This is why so many people find themselves frustrated when trying to gain weight in the gym. The body can recognize the monotony of an activity, and simply stop responding to it. I've been training in martial arts for many years now, and the best way I've found to stimulate my muscles is through an intense grappling session with a partner. Submission fighting is a full body workout, and has a lasting effect on overall body strength. Not to mention that the mind recognizes it as a more "real life" situation, and will push the muscles excert themselves to an extent normally possible when lifting weights. You can grapple and either lose weight or gain mass, simply by adjusting food intake. After several years training in brazilian jiu jitsu, my muscles simply stopped responding to pumping iron. Now, that familiar burn can only be achieved from a grappling workout (not that I'm saying the "burn" feeling indicates progress), and I would not have it any other way, as I am building both skill and strength as a workout. When I do lift weights, they are applied in strengthening a bodily motion that is directly connected to a martial arts technique. Lifting weights builds some strength and burns calories but you are not gaining any skill in your martial arts as you do this. Just imagine how good you would be by now if you had applied all that time spent lifting weights toward your martial arts training instead. Just a thought...

[IronFist]

After several years training in brazilian jiu jitsu, my muscles simply stopped responding to pumping iron.

This is a limitation of your training methodologies, not limitation of weight lifting.

For example, if people can train to deadlift over 1000lbs, and you stopped responding to weight lifting "after several years," then you stopped getting results because of how you were training.

Now, that familiar burn can only be achieved from a grappling workout (not that I'm saying the "burn" feeling indicates progress)

Good, you just saved yourself with the part in parenthesis. :)

Look, it's like this. Some people like weight training, others don't. Some people like olympic lifting, others like bodybuilding. Don't say something is a "waste of time" because you don't get anything out of it.

There have been many times when my strength training has paid off in my life. Like when we had to pick up and move this guy's car out of the way in a bar parking lot.

But it's just that, weight lifting is generally for raw strength. No, it's not going to affect your body the same way as your intense grappling session will. But will your intense grappling session give you the strength to bench press 400lbs, or to be able to push a 300lb biker off of your stomach in a fight? Absolutely not.

You need a mix. You will suck at fighting if all you do is weight lift for strength, and you will not have very high maximal strength if all you do is practice martial arts.

IronFist

[babooon87]

Any kind of training is good, there is no training better than another, they just get you fit in a different way.If its hard, its effective.

[scotty1]

I think supplementary weight training is effective in MA. Strength and weight will never go amiss.

I think that it is easy to train weights at the expense of actual MA practice. But then a lot of people start training MA because they want a good physique, which is when thay start doing weights, and having nice pecs becomes more important than having good technique. i think this is especially so if your technique isn't regularly tested with sparring.

[Lung Hu Pai]

try Coach Davies' routine.

[yenhoi]

Sounds like you dont like lifting weights, whats that have to do with anybody else?

Strength training with metal weights is not necessary for a martial artist to attain high skill, but Strength training is.

:eek:

[ricksitterly]

I'm sorry about that - some of you slightly misunderstood. I wasnt suggesting that it's a waste of time to try to gain strength from lifting, or even that I myself cannot make gains from lifting anymore (if I tried and pushed for it I'm sure I could). Just in my case in particular, I believe the realism of actually grappling with someone gives me the motivation to push my body and stress my muscles much harder than in a weight room. I AM saying that it isn't necessary to pick up a weight in order to make gains in size and strength. I've experienced nice gains in mass from grappling alone. Of coarse, I was eating like a horse, so that helps. Are there any grapplers out there who would agree/disagree with that? Also, probably more testosterone is released when you're actually using strength against another person and not an inanimate object. I'm not exactly sure about that, but it would be interesting to see a study on it.
- with kung fu or other styles incorperating a lot of speed and striking, if you only practice your MA techniques exclusively and do not partake in any strength training, signifigant gains in mass and strength are more unlikely. However, in grappling (be it judo, jiu jitsu, wrestling, whatever ), your MA training is, in itself, a strength building workout. Gains in strength are almost inevitable.

[scotty1]

Seems reasonable.

I think what you're saying ties in with the theory you expressed on my bodyweight routine thread.

[WinterPalm]

The style of kung fu I practice, which focuses on striking mostly, also has forms which have dynamic tension and intense stance training. These develop strength as should every martial art. No matter what martial art you study, there is definite strength training imbedded in either the sets or the training itself. Otherwise, without the proper muscle development, how could you use your body and exceed that of your opponents? Ideally, in martial art, like what you are saying ricksitterly, is that every martial art, with fighting in mind, will train you to handle and know your body in a fight. Whereas weights can give another sense of strength that is geared, with whatever mindset you have while lifting, towards exerting maximal strength. Combination is obviously something that people should try but is it really all that necessary? I mean with good technique, skill and proper development including strength, that biker should never get on top of you.:D

[nospam]

Bodybuilding is the best. It doesn't matter to what level ya take it to, as long as ya do it smart and balance it with everything else.

The male body is built to do labour intensive work...some moreso than others.

nospam.
:cool:

[stuff]

bodybuilding is the best for show perhaps, but I dont think its best for martial arts.

[rubthebuddha]

no no no. some guys are just so pretty, you wouldn't DARE to harm them.



oh wait, i have that backwards. some guys are so pretty, all you want to do is harm them. :D

[WinterPalm]

I am afraid of the reverse pyramid guys...

[SevenStar]

IMO. strength training is definitely an asset in grappling. I've got strength that the guys at my gym who don't lift will never have. That helps both defensively and offensively. If you're trying to put on mass, IMO, bjj is not the way to do it. A good lifting program is. If your program is solid, you will gain "functional" mass that will aid your grappling.

[Robinf]

I don't know if it's because I enjoy weight training, or simply because it works, I have seen faster improvements with weight trianing than I did just working on my martial arts.

This could also be because I became bored working the same things in my martial arts and weight training gave me something new.

But, the more stress put on a muscle, the more it will strengthen to continually deal with that stress. If you add weights to your routine, the body will become stronger (if done properly) in order to cope with the added stress.

Robin

P.S. I left this forum last spring in my quest to do chinups. I believe I was able to do a few at the time. I'm now up to three sets of 5. I'm also up to a 165 squat, which is another thing I'm working on. Not bad for about year's worth of weight training so far.

[Ford Prefect]

Congrats on your progress, Robin.

[rubthebuddha]

robin,

props to you. would you mind telling us what helped you get there? i remember when you first asked for advice, and we threw lots of idears at you.

what worked? :)

[SevenStar]

I was wondering what had happened to you. Congrats on your progress!