View Full Version : Hung Gar Forms!??!?!?!

09-08-2000, 10:58 AM
Ok my Sifu also teaches Hung Gar but he told me that there is only four forms in Hung Gar.
The four forms he teaches are Gung Jee Fok Fu Kuen, Fu Hok Sheung Ying Kuen, Sahp Ying Kuen, and Tid Sin Kuen. But I found out that there is an extra form called Ng Ying Kuen.

So my question is, is my Sifu wrong or that site I looked up wrong??

09-08-2000, 11:15 AM
Nobody is wrong in this case. Some lineages teach you Ng Ying Kuen (five animals) before Sup Ying Kuen (10 forms fist, i.e. Five animal & Five Elements). Sup Ying Kuen just adds five more lines of moves.

Peace /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Je Lei Sifu
09-08-2000, 11:18 AM
And some branches don't do sup ying at all.

Je Lei Sifu

09-08-2000, 11:49 AM
Interesting. So what's traditional Hung Gar??
So what do you guys study??

Paul Skrypichayko
09-08-2000, 12:48 PM
The three main forms of Hung Gar are Gung Ji Fook Fu Kuen, Fu Hok Seung Ying, and Tit Sin Kuen.

Even just one form, like gung ji, can give you plenty to study and train. Anything else is really just bonus or extra.

09-08-2000, 09:46 PM
Ng ying kuen was "created" by Wong Fei Hung. Later Lam Sai Wing added the five elements and the form became the Sap ying kuen. (So the reason that the Tang Fung lineages do not practise Sap Ying is that Tang Fung did not learn this form, because it didn't exist yet.)
Later Ng Ying Kuen was re-added by Chiu Kao, this to fill the gap between Fu Hok and Sap Ying.
Chan Hon Chung did the same, but only for his foreign students (e.g. Yim Uglow in London).

[This message has been edited by Charris PS (edited 09-09-2000).]

Paul Skrypichayko
09-08-2000, 10:37 PM
Charris, I'll disagree with you on this one until I find better info. Most of Lam Sai Wing's students, including Chan Hon Chung, Lam Jo, and others, do not practice Ng Ying Kuen. I find it pretty unusual that Jim Uglow does this form, but perhaps he learned it from an outside source.

Maybe a likely story would be that Chiu Kao learned it from someone in the Tang Fung lineage? Does anybody know if Chiu Kao's Ng Ying Kuen is the same as Tang Fung's?

09-08-2000, 10:56 PM
Guys it is not some mystery, the forms are exactly the same except the addition of the five new lines (elements section). Hell, the end is exactly that of Fu Hok!!

Peace /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

09-08-2000, 11:15 PM
Hello, please excuse me if this is not the thread to post this to (and if so, kindly point me in the right direction), but has anyone heard of Hung Mun? I think it was a triad system but somehow got absorbed into traditional (Canton) Hung, especially in Taiwan. Is this true? Anyone know? How different (or similar) is it to Canton Hung? Thanks.

09-09-2000, 07:23 AM
So what does your Sifu teaches you guys?? What forms does he teach??
BTW are there any Hung Gar way to Knucle conditioning and strong stance developing??
Cause I heard that Hung Gar concentrates on strong stances and powerful hand techniques.

09-09-2000, 08:44 AM
Tek- the way we build our stances is by holding them for long periods of time. It's something that is not a secret and all MA's utilize this. Basically its one of the things you can't get around so you might at as well "eat bitter" and just do it.

The powerful hand techniques come from the bridge work that is found throughout hung gar. I don't know if i can accurately explain bridgework though because there is still a lot about it that i don't understand /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Peace /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

09-09-2000, 09:07 AM
Thx for the info IllusionFist and sorry guys I ask so many questions. I'm kind of new in CMA and don't know too much about this art.
BTW IllusionFist and Paul do you guys still go to the chat room that Prarie Girl gave out I think it was called Dragonlist??? Also where is Prarie Girl?

[This message has been edited by Tekarius (edited 09-10-2000).]

09-09-2000, 09:30 AM
hey Illusion fist!

I wanna know if you know some good books on Hung gar(fung kuen)
The problem I have is:

1 We don't have a kwoon in Suriname(some ****place in south america)

2 The older guys care nothing but Mah tjok!!

3 My father don't want to learn Hung Gar when he was in china(some where in 1945)
cuz in that time he spent his time smoking!
(we had hung gar in "Su sak ha" clan/village)

09-09-2000, 02:57 PM
Ng Ying Kuen in Chiu Kao lineage is just the half Sap Ying Kuen, sometimes however first taught with the same end as Fu Hok.
So with re-adding I ment just teaching the half Sap Ying Kuen first and call it Ng YIng Kuen.
As for the creation of Sap Ying Kuen. In Lam Jo lineage it's told that Lam Sai Wing made it by adding the elements to the Ng Ying Kuen. If you have heard any other stories on this , let me know.

Je Lei Sifu
09-10-2000, 08:12 AM
refering to the stance work and the bridge hand techniques, the saying goes something like. First build a bridge and then cross it with horse. Basically, you use your bridge hand to connect to the oponent and your stance work to get close enough to strike.

Je Lei Sifu

09-11-2000, 05:32 AM
Tek- I don't go to the dragonslist too much anymore. School's started so i don't have much time for chatting.

Overdemon- The only books that i have are:

Gung Gee Fook Fu- Taming the Tiger by Buck Sam Kong

and then there are the books that Lam Sai Wing put out on Gung Gee, Fu Hok, and Tid Sin Kuen.

If you can still get it there is a book on Tiger Crane that Buck Sam Kong put out. But I think it has been out of print for some time.

Peace /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Paul Skrypichayko
09-11-2000, 06:51 AM
Sorry, I rarely go to dragonslist chat anymore. It's usually pretty dead. There is a new site out there, www.hungkuen.org.uk (http://www.hungkuen.org.uk) It's just starting out, so it's slow as well, but they have chat and msg board to offer.

Overdemon, you're from Suriname? I have a high school friend who was born and raised in Guyana and Suriname. I wouldn't mind talking to you in email. Mine is hung_ga @hotmail.com

09-13-2000, 03:10 AM
Just so happens I'm back from visiting my si-gung Lum Jo and asked this very question.

The main hand sets of Hung Gar are Gung Ji, Fu Hok, Sup Ying and Tit Sin. That's it.

Someone on another thread posted the Lam Chun Fai (Lum Jo's son) site and they added one more set Chin Cheung. This is not a core Hung Gar set.

Some other sets are Mui Fah Kuen, Sup Sat Sau, Wu Dip Cheung, Sam Ying, Lau Gar and others. Most of these came from the association of Lam Sai Wing with the Ching Mo.

And as stated, Ng Ying in Chiu Kao line is just Sup Ying with the elements removed and the fu hok ending. I don't know much about the creation of this set.

09-13-2000, 11:38 AM
Hey! Don't forget Mok Kwai Lan kuan. So... I'm just curious, do any of you have Jeet kuan (arrow hand) added to your system? Or Lohan kuan?

09-14-2000, 01:26 AM
Some of us have Jin Sao Kuen (arrow hand) but i don't think we have Jeet Kuen (quick fist). It just so happens that i know the mizong lohan (my jhong law horn) version of jeet kuen and i think Jeet Kuen in itself is reserved for northern styles. I know that Fu Jow Pai has Law horn Kuen (lohan quan) but i am pretty sure hung gar doesn't have it.

Peace /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

09-14-2000, 03:55 AM
Here are a list of books written by Jamal Al Bakkar:

Secret Chin-Na Techniques of Hung Gar Kung Fu ,Hung Gar: The Five Formed Fist
Iron Fist Training in Hung Gar Kung Fu I & II, South Shaolin Masters of Hung Gar
36 Fist Styles of Hung Gar and Siu Lam Kung Fu , Traditional Hung Gar (Tiger-Crane) Kung Fu Master Text.

The guys at our club purchased some of these texts from the ChinWu group that this sifu blongs to. We were happy with what we received. Not trying to advertise for these guys so you can find them at the North Carolina branch of the Chin Wu Athletic Association. Cheers, Ross

09-15-2000, 09:21 PM
Does anybody know about the lineage of Jamal Al Bakkar? I have seen the books on the internet but it really didn't say anything about lineage or teachers on his website.


09-15-2000, 11:52 PM
I seem to remember reading that Sifu Al Bakkar trained through a Phillipines branch of the Chin Wu Athletic group. The Chin Wu group is famous for it efforts at maintaining CMA throughout the world. I certainly had the impression that he is a traditional stylist.

I know that it is important to know these things but if ,for the price of a book, you pick up one or two concepts that enhance your practice then the money is worth it irrespective of lineage or teacher.

Considering some of the crap seminars that people pay for it is nice to see someone trying to just write up something about their branch of the style. You will note that this sifu has made no attempt to promote his books that I can see.


Je Lei Sifu
09-16-2000, 08:12 AM
To answer the question about Jamal Al Bakar's Lineage, it is suppose to be:

Tang Fang
Lao Kai Tang
Shakespere Chan
Frank Rivera
Jamal Al Bakar.


Je Lei Sifu:cool: