Question for non-Wing Chun people

[IronFist]

Have you ever sparred/fought a Wing Chun person?

How did you deal with their Wing Chun techniques?

IronFist

[Serpent]

Yep. Just keep moving around their centre-line.

This is going to start a monster flame war, you realise!

Ah well, in for a penny....

Most wing chun people are a little too obsessed with their centre-line theory. They try to learn to maintain their centreline control no matter where their opponent goes. Therefore, good footwork, constantly circle their centreline and attack from the side, one side then the other, etc. and you can disrupt them. Also, dictate the range. Most WC people like to fight in mid to close range, so exploit that.

DISCLAIMER: This entire post is an enormously broad generalisation. There will be various instances where Wing Chun practitioners do not follow these patterns. Any Wing Chun people that disagree with me... well, too bad, I guess. ;)

[yenhoi]

I usually worry about the people trying to take the centerline, not go around it!

:eek:

What a totally unfair and one-sided question! What about us WCKers who have to fight normal mundane martial artists and deal with normal mundane techniques.

Hah.:eek:

[Serpent]

Originally posted by yenhoi
I usually worry about the people trying to take the centerline, not go around it!

:eek:


And therein lies the beauty of my advice. :)





What a totally unfair and one-sided question! What about us WCKers who have to fight normal mundane martial artists and deal with normal mundane techniques.

Hah.:eek:

It is a one-sided question, I agree, but it's a valid one. I can't see it staying friendly for long though. ;)

[IronFist]

Be nice.

IronFist

[SevenStar]

yeah, I agree with seprent

[KnightSabre]

I did Wing Chun for 2 years before I started boxing and Muay Thai,

I'd say that using quick jabs and looping hooks as well as uppercuts and overhands make it difficult for them.
Infact the more you pressure them with quick combinations the more they panick.

[Repulsive Monkey]

I have beaten my Wing Chun friend several times especially when its free fighting. He's been doing Wing Chun for about 8 years, and I usually beat him 70% of them time. I just neutralise,stick, follow, issue. Sticking in Taiji I feel is taken to a deeper level than in Wing Chun and therefore it follows through a lot more. This is based, natuarlly, just on my sparring with my partner so this is not an indictment to all Wing Chuners.

[Souljah]

I went to a wing chun class once like last april - one of mark phillips classes. Packed with like 40 people. Toward the end we did a sticky hand session - not chi sao though.

We (our club) practice a type of sticky hands similar to this (call it eclectic hands) but with a alot more diversity in our movements.
I would honestly say I "won" while doing this with most of them - as I got more blows through and only got hit a couple of times throughout facing like 10 people.
Except one guy who I later found out was like uk chi sao champ, made me feel good really.....:)

It wasnt really sparring though

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Repulsive Monkey
I have beaten my Wing Chun friend several times especially when its free fighting. He's been doing Wing Chun for about 8 years, and I usually beat him 70% of them time. I just neutralise,stick, follow, issue. Sticking in Taiji I feel is taken to a deeper level than in Wing Chun and therefore it follows through a lot more. This is based, natuarlly, just on my sparring with my partner so this is not an indictment to all Wing Chuners.

There was a WC guy in a recent competition here who folded when pressure was constantly applied on him. Another WC guy I know thrives on that though.

[dnc101]

Serpent has it right. Get to their side quickly, operate from a zone of partial obscurity. Check their upper body so they can't turn to face you. I don't use a lot of kicks because even a mid level kick to these guys is a bridge, and in sparing we don't kick their lower legs because of possible knee dammage (general rule, not absolute). When in close to their side I do try to disrupt or check their base, but that is starting to play their game a bit. Definately stay out of direct close or medium frontal contact. Footwork, and stances, and footwork, and more footwork.

One of the toughest fighters I've sparred with is an ex WCer turned Kenpoist. If it ever got serious, I think I could outrun him. The sob is dangerous at any range or angle, but when he maneuvers in close and front it can be a humbling experience. I'd never take a WCer lightly.

[yuanfen]

Quote;Serpent has it right. Get to their side quickly, operate from a zone of partial obscurity. Check their upper body so they can't turn to face you.
---------------------------------

Must be dealing with an incompetemt wing chummer!

[KC Elbows]

There's more than one way to skin a cat.

First, get them to put on slippery shoes, prefferably in the EU.:D

Just kidding.

On of my classmates is a senior in his wing chun class. Both wing chun and six elbows have sticky hands, but the circles in six elbows are very different from wing chun. Wing chun seems to dominate with circles that are more forward pressing- six elbows has these, but also utilizes a lot of tight looping circles a la hooks and looping ridge hands to the ribs and such, lots of outside in and inside out circles.

Before any oversensitive people get on here, I'm not saying that wing chun totally lacks these things, I'm saying you guys work your direct stuff more, we work these more, as a general rule.

Anyway, in my experience, the poster who recommends tight hooks is correct. Also, evading their center line is good, but if you can hang, and your center line skills are better, then take them there.

They're not that different from other fighters. If your long range kicking skills are good, use them.

IMO, I don't worry about the style of the guy I'm fighting. I take into account what it might mean he's good at, but I don't let it sweat me. Most good fighters have too many attributes that don't relate to their core style to count on that knowledge. My style is predominantly in close, but I'm a decent kicker. Like that.

Hey, you could take them to the ground.

Watch those chain punches. Most guys are not very good at applying them, but someone decent can really knock you, especially with that second one. If they're the type who thinks twenty chain punches in a row is a good idea, when they come in, stop kick their advance or some such thing, then come in with a more effective flurry, real sudden like.

It ****es me off when I see some guy chain punching ten times in a row in fighting. Maybe that works against amateurs, but the fact is, if your second chain punch doesn't have the stopping power to stun your opponent and give you the opportunity to do something more powerful, then 8 more won't do anything but 1) panic amateurs, which isn't exactly difficult or 2) Do nothing but set you up for a beating. It's not a frikkin gattling gun.

A lot of less trained wing chun guys are always reaching for bridge contact. Use that. Deny it to demoralize them, kick them a bunch, give them contact to strike and then take it away, don't let them hang on you, it's a bad habit anyway.

And, of course, if he's better than you, make sure you learn how to beat him.

Also, if you can get a t-shirt that has one of those pictures where it looks different from different angles, that alternately says 'wing chun' and 'ving tsun', your opponent will not know whether to kill you or hug you. Hook them in the jaw at the moment of confusion.:D

[red5angel]

I don't really lik e these sorts of questions because in general the answers are sort of dumb. Not picking on anyone in particular here but for example "go around their centerline" or "get them off their centerline" Are sort of the answers I am talking about. It's like answering "How would you defeat a BJJ person?" with "I would go to the ground."

Generally I think people get too stuck in that mode where an art that has some strong points just needs to be attacked from exactly the opposite direction examples : Attack wingchun off the centerline by going around, or don't go to the ground with bjj. DUH!!! The problem is that any good artist knows what his weak spots may be or may be preceived as.
I don't think you can approach a fight from the point of art but form the point of the person. For example, I would try to get most WC people on the ground. My ground game may not be the best but I know most WC people aren't really working that. I wouldn't go about that because of the weakness of the art but as a weakness of the persons training.

[KC Elbows]

You can't go into a fight running away from contact. Wing chun isn't the only art with contact skills.

At some point, you've got to get in and get the dirty work done.

Just do it. The worse thing that could happen is you lose and learn. Fights get very close. If you can hang in close with a good wing chunger, then you can probably fight. If you can't, then you should try, not avoid. IMHO

[rogue]

When I was taking WC we had a TKD BB in the class. The sifu talked to him on the side and then had several of the WC guys spar him. All three of them fell for the same tactic which was after staying at long range the TKD BB would turn, the WC would close fast and get hit with a back kick or side kick. Sifu thought it was pretty funny.

Other than that I ditto what Serpent said.

[yenhoi]

quote yuanfen:

Must be dealing with an incompetemt wing chummer!

--

Thats what I was getting at.

If you let the WCK guy have the centerline (THE centerline) and he is somehow NOT invulnerable for some reason, then his Wing Chun needs much more work.

:D



Well I didnt really mean invulnerable, but if you allow someone the center, then they are winning, and cant be hurt - and you must take the center before you can cause any damage. Even a tight hook doesnt work without the right positioning. Im sure older, more expierenced WCKers probably wet themselves with excitement whenever someone trys to 'go around' or 'flank' or 'take them from the side' or whatnot.

If someone has good structure, good footwork, good timing, good etc, good at fighting, good etc, then they will defeat whoever their opponent is.

:eek:

[rogue]

Must be dealing with an incompetemt wing chummer!

WING CHUM, the deadly art of throwing fish parts at your opponents centerline.

[fa_jing]

It's funny that people are always saying that you should side-step or circle around a wing-chunner - because that's exactly what WC trains you to do to your opponent. I can only think that people's experiences training is with relative beginners and people that emphasize chain punching to begin an attack- which is a mis-placed emphasis in some WC schools, IMO to give the beginner student something to fight with. Against the straight in chain-puncher types, lots of stuff will work. Attacking the limbs or the midsection comes to mind. The correct use of chain punching is to finish the opponent after his defenses have been severely breached. Against a proficient Wing Chunner, if anything, I would say try to cut the Wing Chun guy off as he is trying to flank you, by turning and going straight into him. Maybe a Hsing-Yi stylist would be good at that. However, if you initiate foward motion against the Wing Chun guy, then he will be able to successfully flank you.
In general, hey if you can take him down and ground'n'pound him, that's surely a good strategy.

[MightyB]

You should just curl up into a little ball and say, "please don't hurt me nasty wing chun man". Then you should grovel a bit, just a bit though, too much grovelling causes internal energy problems.

[Watchman]

All of you have missed the most effective and devastating method of countering a Wing Chun fighter:

When the two of you are squared off, ask him what his lineage is. When he opens his mouth to prove to you that his Wing Chun is the "most accurate, correct, and pure"....punch him as hard as you can in the teeth.

[norther practitioner]

I would say watchman has had the best response. One of my sihings at my old school in NY was a pretty acomplished wcer, he lived on my best friends couch for a while, well, we used to get some lessons on the side from time to time, and he would show us some counters and whatnot when people get in close. Anyhow, sparring with him was always difficult, but I did learn to sidestep a lot more, and try to come at some different angles, however, he was fast as hel1.

[txwingchun]

Originally posted by Watchman
All of you have missed missed the most effective and devastating method of countering a Wing Chun fighter:

When the two of you are squared off, ask him what his lineage is. When he opens his mouth to prove to you that his Wing Chun is the "most accurate, correct, and pure"....punch him as hard as you can in the teeth.


ROFL now that was funny!