View Full Version : question to Lam's Hung Gar linerage

09-12-2000, 09:15 AM
Hi fellow brothers,

I was reading the bio of master Chan Hong Chun and Master Chiu Kau on this web site www.hungga.net (http://www.hungga.net) There was something in the footnotes of bio that i found confusing. It said that the two master mentioned were not disciples of Master Lam Sai Wing but rather were disciples of Lam Jo.
I always thought they were sihings to sifu lam jo.
Since I am of the Tang Fong linerage, and in the process of doing research in our system.
Any help of this matter is greatly apprciated


[This message has been edited by DF (edited 09-13-2000).]

Paul Skrypichayko
09-12-2000, 09:52 AM
I believe that some of Wing Lam's students responded to this a few months ago on the forum, saying that this was another newspaper statement from Lam Jo which was later retracted.

If Chan Hon Chung and Chiu Kao were still alive, I don't think Lam Jo would be so careless with his words. After all, Chan Hon Chung was the head instructor at Lam Sai Wing's school, and isn't the modern day successor to Lam Sai Wing's school a man named Leung Gum Gong?

09-12-2000, 09:55 AM
curiouser and curiouser...

09-12-2000, 09:59 AM
Hi Paul,

long time, I didnt know there was a respond to this already. Since I was away a couple of months ago. It is just that i recently read it in the web sited mentioned. I just thought it was odd thats why i am seeking for assistance here.


09-13-2000, 02:24 AM
This is all very simple.

When Lam Sai Wing passed away, the school went to his nephew Lum Jo. In fact, Lum Jo had been running the school (one in HK island and one in Kowloon) for sometime before LSW's death since Lam Sai Wing went back to Guangzhou to live his final years. (Chiu Kao went with him to Guangzhou during that time)

Since Lum Jo was young, he wanted to establish himself and as the Sifu of the school, he felt that Lam Sai Wing's students were his students and took an ad in the paper stating so.

Chan Hon Chung and Chiu Kao studied directly with Lam Sai Wing.

Who is Leung Gum Gong and what is relation with LSW? Why would he be considered the successor? Most Hung Gar sifu's in Hong Kong I talked to recognize Lum Jo.

09-13-2000, 08:09 AM
thk all for the responds.

However, I still found it strange.
Hasayfu, are you saying that Lam jo took out an ad in the newspaper after Lam Sai wing passed and claimed Chui and Chan as his students.
Sorry , i sound ignorant, but this seem to go against every protocol and etiquette that i was taught.
No disrepect intended.

Anyway, so it is confirmed than chui and Chan were disciples of grandmaster Lam sai Wing.

Thank you for all those that respond.

09-13-2000, 11:51 PM
Hello, I'm the webmaster of Hungga United.
The reason that both stories/possibilities are on the site is just that different stories are told.
Chiu Kao and Chan Hon Chung are generally believed to be students of Lam Sai Wing, and I have seen pics of both with LSW (proving this).
However Lam Jou claims they are his students.
And this is accepted in the lineages under him. The first time I read Lam Jou being (claiming to be) their sifu was an article in Inside Kung Fu a few years ago. You can also find this claim on the internet site of Lam Chun Fai.
I have also heard that there's a large lineage displayed in Lam Jou's school (now Lam Chun FAi's school). According to this lineage, Chiu Kao and Chan Hon Chung (as well as a lot of others) are students of Lam Jou and (making it more confusing) that Tang Fung was a student of Lam SAi Wing.

Why these claims are made, I do not now exactly. But remember it might just be a difference in perspective. Chiu kao and Chan Hon Chung might have learned a lot from Lam Jou, because he was the assistent of Lam Sai Wing. (Note: both started training under Lam SAi Wing when Lam Jou was ca. 20 years old and next to his own school also helped/taught at Lam Sai Wing's school).
Chiu Kao and han Hon Chung will of course see Lam Sai Wing as their Sifu. Lam Jou will however think they learned a lot from him, so therefore he now claims to have been their teacher.

If anyone has more question about this, feel free to contact me by using the discussion forum on Hungga United (www.hungga.net)

Paul Skrypichayko
09-14-2000, 04:25 AM
I don't think Lam Jo is being very respectful to anyone by claiming that he is the teacher, or even the sihing to great masters like Chiu Kao and Chan Hon Chung. Who's next to be his student, Wong Lee, Mok Gwai Lan, etc?

As for Lam Sai Wing and Tang Fung, they were learning brothers. Even if one is more senior or more skilled, they wouldn't go around bragging about who taugh who, or who is better.

You can look at the whole situation from this perspective; you are the top student under your sifu. He may have a son or daughter who has been at his school for years before you, but that doesnt make the child your teacher, and it doesn't necessarily mean that the child is any good.

Think of it this way, who was more skillful, who was the head instructor under Lam Sai Wing, which students were given Lam Sai Wing's blessing to open up their own schools and medical practices?

09-14-2000, 10:03 AM
if you have a look at Lam Chun FAi's website, you can see that Wong Lee is also said to be Lam Jou's student.

I agree it's not very respectfull. Now all these persons are dead, the claims are spread openly.

But then again. Maybe Lam Jou thinks they were not respectful to him.

E.g. - as you (Paul) will know - there are big differences of perspective in my lineage too.
A student of the appointed successor of my Sigung claims that his sifu is the only successor, and that the other students may not say they learned from Sigung X. Furthermore he claims that he's the sifu of my sifu, since he helped setting up the school and my sifu refreshed his memeory under this person. I learned Hungga however way before that period and have seen pictures of my sifu with Sigung X (training/teaching).
He claims my sifu isn't very respectfull, my sifu says he's not. So who's right?
We just have to accept that people will see things in a way that suits them best, and that there's no ultimate truth. So there will always be different stories/different perspectives.

Paul Skrypichayko
09-14-2000, 04:21 PM
Well, there will always be different sides to every story, and people will always have "their" version of things. One thing you have to realize is, you can fool some people, but you can't fool yourself. A lie will always be uncoverred eventually.

For situations like these, the proof is in the quality of the martial artist and his students. Just look and compare, you will see. Also, when all of these masters were alive, who were the "leaders"? Who did everyone in the martial arts community look up to and respect?

09-17-2000, 07:49 AM
I know that I am about open a can of worms but...

In this particular post no one has produced any evidence of proof of Chu Chi Ling's linerage. Nor has anyone prduced proof otherwise. I am speaking of solid DOCUMENTATION in writing. Pictures really do not prove much. Anyone can stand next to a master and take a shot togather. Alll this bickering back and forth are arguements are old ones that DO NOT INVOlVE US! Should Chu Chi Ling dispute Lam Jo's claim then perhaps he should have the mind to visit Lam Jo personally and speak out it. Let the two of them sort it out man to man. This is an issue that has been around for a long time before any of us started training and will be along well after.

We as martial artists should concentrate on our given arts and not delve into things which are none of our concern. Practice hard with proper intention and work on being as good as you can at your given style. That is what make ones Kung Fu strong. The rest if you forgive my cander is mental masterbation.

Just my two cents.

San Francisco, CA

09-18-2000, 12:35 AM
I'll agree with Brian that the important stuff is your kung fu and that we as the Hung Gar community should support and promote each other not take little stabs to prop up one line over the others.

Again, this is pretty simple but everyone is making much more out of it. I'll tell you what I think happened based on different accounts and let you know where I get my information. I am a student of Wing Lam so my lineage comes from both Chiu Wai and Lum Jo. I have visited both my Si-gungs several times and spoken and trained with them.

Chiu Wai - When Lum Jo took over Lam Sai Wing's school, he took out ad and called all the current students of LSW, his own. [my note: This is not as disrespectful as it sounds since he was now the "head of household." and it's common in Chinese heirarchy] Of course his Si-Hing's didn't agree since LSW never did the official passing of the line ceromony. [my note: Lum Jo did this while they were all alive and kicking so it's not a case of waiting till they couldn't defend themselves]

At least Chiu Kao confronted Lum Jo about this and they disagreed at first but eventually Lum Jo agreed that he was rash. Chiu Wai and Lum Jo are currently on good terms.

Lum Jo - I've never asked Lum Jo if he considers Chiu Kao his student but I have some observations while there. They have a book published on the anniversary of LSW's birthday with a list of LSW's students and Chiu Kao is listed as one of them. I think this was published in 1972 but I'm not sure.

I've never seen a lineage chart on the wall of Lum Jo's school. Though you will see my picture on the wall and in the albums /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

When I was at Lum Jo's school last week, I showed Lam Chun Shing (Lum Jo's youngest son) a printout of his section on the Lam Chun Fai site and he or Si-Gung had never seen it before. So it's safe to say that though the site is officially affiliated with Lam Chun Fai, it doesn't mean that they have proof read it or sanctioned everthing on it. Remember, it's created out of Southern California. I also know that Lam Chun Shing does not speak or read english but I'm not sure about LCF.

So why do I take time to explain this in detail? To show that there is no sinister plot to bring one line down or prop one line up.

BUT even if there was, who cares! /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif If Chiu Kao says he learned from LSW and you are his lineage, either believe him or change your affiliation.

If Lum Jo wants to say the Chiu Line is under his, then it's a matter for the Chiu's to handle and we should believe what our Sifu tells us.

WE as an internet community need to share our lines perspective but should also be respectful of others perspectives. Both Chiu and Lum lines have great Hung Gar. There's a lot to be learned from both. We sometimes lose what's really important.

09-25-2000, 12:19 PM
The site, http://www.hungkuen.com, has just been updated and lo and behold! A letter from the master's son stating that Chiu Kao and his wife ARE students of Lum, Jo with the photos as Lum's evidence. Interesting that the letter is in response to Chiu, Chi-Ling's lineage.

To Hay Say Fu, did you learn anything back in HK in Lum's and Chiu's and did you notice the difference in style and execution?

09-25-2000, 06:47 PM
Hi Molum_jr,

Yes, I worked on several sets with both Si-Gungs. You can clearly see the differences as well as the similarities. I can also see how my Sifu is a mix of his two Sifus.

In General, Lum Jo is much tighter and close in where Chiu Wai is a little more exended. My Si-Sook (who also studied both lines) says it's a reflection of their personalities.

I'll say one thing. The stuff Chiu Chi Ling does in public is not what the Chiu's teach. Though I have never learned from Chiu Chi Ling, I've seen him demo privately and it's much closer to his brother then the stuff he puts on video.

09-25-2000, 11:16 PM
With Molum_jr's link, it got me curious why Lam Chun Fai would write such a letter.

Check out http://home.earthlink.net/~chiuchiling/history.html

This is relatively new because I notice his site has more videos and I don't remember reading this the last time I was there. This story is similar to what Chiu Wai told me but without the Lum Jo slander. It's a shame that CCL had to include it.

I still stand by my statement. Who Cares! /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif Believe what you like. Both lines (as other hung gar lines) have a lot to offer.

Paul Skrypichayko
09-26-2000, 01:45 AM
Not taking sides, just offerring what I've been taught.

All of Lam Sai Wing's students and grandstudents that I've talked to have no doubt that Chiu Kao is the student of Lam Sai Wing.

I've got nothing to gain or lose from this arguement, but I was told that Chiu Kao started learning under Lam Sai Wing. Lam was already in his old age, so Chiu Kao finished his training under his sihings. His si-hings wont claim him as their student, because he is their si-dai. Plus, his si-hings will already have their own good reputations, no need to have someone else build it for them.

Also, didn't someone already mention that the "lam chun fai" website isn't run by Lam Chun Fai? It could be some insecure student trying to build a reputation for his masters. I don't think the Lam's would try and talk like that about the Chius. Maybe they could say that to Chiu Chi Ling, but I doubt people would talk bad about Chiu Kao or Chiu Wei.

Just my 2 cents worth

09-26-2000, 04:21 AM
Did you guys konw that wing lam learned some hung gar from YC Wong? And did wing ever give credit to YC? NOPE, wow talk about respect.

09-26-2000, 12:01 PM
1) To Hay Say Fu: I dropped by Eastwinds bookstore, SF and talked with one of the cashiers about Chiu, Chi-Ling videos and out of all the Hung Gar tapes that they sell, Chiu's received the most compliants concerning content. It seems that the tapes are more concerned w/advertising than content.

2) To Word: Well...it was probably expected that you rehash some old grips. The fact is that WL practised both in Wong, Jack-Man and YC Wong's respected kwoons when he came to the USA. It should be noted that the older generation of YC Wong students learnt Wu Dip Cheong (Butterfly Palm - a Chiu Kao form that is not taught by the Lum Jo school) from WL. Later on, they continued to learn from wushu video tapes from China (Saber form especially) and a little bit from William Fong (Disciple of Tai Chi Praying Mantis and Wong, Fei-Hung's wife in HK).

09-26-2000, 07:56 PM
Dear Molum_JR.

Of which "Older generation" Y.C. Wong Students exactly are you referring to? I have been a student of Y.C. Wong for the last 7 years and I have never heard any truth to what you say. To my knowledge none of My Si-hings have gotten any forms from the people you mentioned. I can ask them if you wish. Our saber form comes from the Pek Kwa system not a wushu video. Sifu learned it in Hong Kong from grandmaster Kun Duk Hoi.

To Paul:

Of which exact students and Grandstudents of Lam Sai Wing's do you speak of? Also who exactly told you this?

I've got nothing to gain or lose from this arguement, but I was told that Chiu Kao started learning under Lam Sai Wing. Lam was already in his old age, so Chiu Kao finished his training under his sihings. His si-hings wont claim him as their student, because he is their si-dai. Plus, his si-hings will already have their own good reputations, no need to have someone else build it for them. I would like to verify your statement with those people.

Once again I repeat my statement. This matter is none of our Concern! It is a matter that is strictly between the Lam family and the Chui Family. You all should put this energy into your training and stay out of other people's business.

San Francisco, CA

bean curd
09-27-2000, 09:05 AM

for one who says we should keep out of this, of which i 100% totally agree with your statment, and of which after this one i will not post on this matter again, you seem to be continuing the issues by asking others questions.

you yourself stated in your first posting of this matter, "what documented proof does chi ling have of his families lineage", then you go on to tell others that they should mind there own business.

you seem to be stopping the fight with one hand and then hitting with the other.

maybe you should read your own words, before telling others to listen to your voice.

mo duk my friend mo duk

regards /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

09-27-2000, 09:39 AM
Molum said :
2) To Word: Well...it was probably expected that you rehash some old grips. The fact is that WL practised both in Wong, Jack-Man and YC Wong's respected kwoons when he came to the USA.

SEE! There's proof that wing learned form WJM and YC Wong. I bet you he still lies about it to this day. ONassis! Did you know that your sifu trained with those guys? Has he ever told you? After all you're an instructor! Wow, what a grandmaster . * flap Flap*

09-27-2000, 10:49 AM
Brian... Sorry about the confusion. The reference is made about some of your older sihings during the late seventies. Wushu was coming on to the scene. Intermission shorts at the World theater were loaded with wushu perfomances. One of your older sihings got a tape and started picking up some saber techniques and started showing some cool stuff. The wushu people recongnized the routine and knew he lifted it from the videos - like a lot of us do when we see a something we like. You read more into the posting youngster. When did I make a reference to YC Wong's official curriculum concerning pikua saber?

As far as wudip cheong, that is what my sihings told me. William Fong did show/teach some of your seniors when he arrived in SF. His major comment was that most of your sihings favored more form practise than sparring (given the Sacramento St. size that can be a factor). He continued to teach Raymond Wong, son of YC Wong, at the Clement Street Studio. I know...I was there and spoke with Raymond quite a few times on which sifu in SF was tight on teaching or teaching made-up stuff.

If you want to talk to your sihings or the Wong bros., ask them about the physical confrontations in the old, old days when they caught someone filming YC Wong on super 8mm (yeah man...ancient technology). They didn't let anyone off easy (bruise, bruise...) Funny thing that there is probably more 8mm out there of YC Wong from the sixties and early seventies than any hung gar master. Have you checked out Lum Jo son's site on the quicktime videos?

09-27-2000, 11:01 AM
I say WL practised/worked out at the two respected kwoon. If you ever seen YC Wong's and WJM's forms, then you would know the style/performance/the way of doing it is completely different. This you have to chalk it up to experience...you haven't seen the differences in hung gar or northern sil lum yet. Let this be your next assignment...In other words, try spying/peeping at YC Wong's or WJM and give us a rest. (It will never happen, a virus like you needs the poster to propagate - I hope there is not a word jr. in the future!)

But since you want it sooo bad, I'll let you continue to live in your fantasy world.

09-27-2000, 11:16 AM
Gee Brian... invoking your sihings and the Wong Bros. made me look up an old black & white 8mm on video of YC Wong performing sup ying kuen, fu hok sheon ying, butterfly knives vs. spear(?) from 1969? Looking at it, I see all your sihings when they were ten or younger. The weapons performance was spectacular then as it is now when your sifu performs. The rhythmn/pace is the same as Lam, Chun-Fai's quicktime mov's.

Now if I can just FIND that rare, rare video tape of your school performing in the Chan, Hoc-Fu benefits. This one is in color with a pik kua demo included... It was a two nite event and the second nite's video never made it to the public. All the gungfu kwoons had a few words with the guy that was hawking it for $100/video at his Pacific St. tv/video store. That tape...someone must have it!

09-27-2000, 06:36 PM
To Bean Curd,

I am completely willing to let the matter lie. However my Sifu's name has been brought into this matter and I simply want to make sure that the comments that where stated are true. This is the actual subject of my last post. I am not delving into the past issue. If people where to talk about your sifu would you not ask where they got their info? Would you examine it for truth? Please reread my last post. I simply would like to find out where people obtained their infomation about my school. Should their be any question to the validity of the information I am in a good place to ask about it. This will represent my las post on the subject of the Chuis Vs. The Lams.


San Francisco

09-28-2000, 12:28 AM
To Molum_JR

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I am glad you clarified yourself. Do you have a copy of that demo? I would love to get a hold of it and show it to Sifu. I believe that was the big demostration in 1969. It was supposed to great! If you do, please email me at Irontread@aol.com I would love to work something out. Thanks a bunch.

to Word

Are you currently a student training with Sifu Wong? If so please stop digging up issues and starting agruements.
San Francisco, CA

09-28-2000, 04:12 AM
How many times have you grasped at my Sifu to no avail. I really don't have to spend my time blowing you out of the water you know. You are so inexperienced and misinformed it's incredible.

I don't have to say that it has been well known by the most elite kung fu men in the west coast circles that WL(my sifu) came to Calif. and discovered that he had an older brother living in the US. That is nothing new and nothing that has ever been denied. They met up as two brothers of the same school would have.

I don't need to explain every little detail to you. And yes i know everything you dumbA$$.

To Dixon Fung,

I apologize that a scum troll like word would attempt to corrupt your sincere quest for knowledge.

On a side note. Are you freinds w/ Tom Grant? Have you seen him around lately?


Onassis P.

09-28-2000, 05:59 AM
Molum what are you talking about? I know the difference between hung gar and n. shaolin. Wing went to YC wong to review his hung gar sets and learned all his n. shaolin from wong jack man. Wong jack man taught his n. shaolin to beginners with specific instructions where he modified a few circular movements to straight punches. After the student progresses, he would correct them into the circular movements. Till this day, wing lam still does it the beginner way. Why? Because he was kicked out of wong jack man's school for being disrespectful.

09-28-2000, 06:03 AM
To Subitai,

I am more than a friend of Tom ,he is always like a brother in my heart. We see each other mostly during the lion dance parade around Chinatown during Chinese New Year.

As far as trolling on my thread, I might be just as guilty in creating a troll thread myself without realizing it.

I will explain my position in this matter in a later day. I am having very mix feeling with all that had happened.

I just hope that all the Hung ga linerages can come together and resolve this matter before we all look foolish. This is a family matter, and family must resolve all conflicts before it gets totally out of hand. Hung Ga is a big family and it is getting bigger everyday. This linerage issue is a big issue but it is not so big that it can not be resolved.


[This message was edited by DF on 09-28-00 at 11:22 PM.]

09-28-2000, 10:19 AM
Hi DF,

If you see Tom please tell him to give me call. We had lunch in NY once and talked kung fu like old brothers, he's a straight up guy.

No bull****, sometimes i miss that tell like it is East Coast lingo.

His email was down for a awhile and he may have lost mine. However he can email me through the contacts page of
www.thekwoon.com (http://www.thekwoon.com)

I agree w/ you. One big family. Someone once said that the older generation that came over from China would have to all die off before they'd all get along. I'd hope that would not be the case.

ease on,


[This message was edited by Subitai on 09-29-00 at 03:32 AM.]

[This message was edited by Subitai on 09-29-00 at 03:33 AM.]

09-30-2000, 05:17 AM
Hey All

Check this site out, much info and an old publication with photos has been put up in response to what is written at Chiu Chi Ling's web site regarding the Hung Gar lineage:


[This message was edited by Tiger on 09-30-00 at 10:22 PM.]

Paul Skrypichayko
10-01-2000, 04:28 AM
How come people on here are encouraging others to turn a blind eye, ignore things, and sit around and do nothing?

Whatever happened to sticking up for what is right, and correcting what is wrong? If we let others alter history, how are future generations going to know what is correct? If we let people get away with badmouthing others, what's next? Who's going to be there to stick up for YOU?

If people can't agree on things, at least they can debate it, after all, what is a forum for anyways?

10-01-2000, 05:35 AM
hi Paul,

long time my friend, I cant speak for other, but by no means that I am " encouraging others to turn a blind eye. "

Things are being dealt with by the parties involved. There are elders in the family from different linerages that were made aware of development of things.
I agree totally with sticking up for what is right and what is the truth. This is part of "Mo Duk" or martial virture that we live by. Too often we think of mo duk as being a humble person, but it is just as important to fight for whats right and justice for all.


Paul Skrypichayko
10-01-2000, 06:21 AM
Yes, I hope things do get sorted out. By the way, does anybody know if those sites are actually connected to Lam Jo's sons, or Chiu Chi Ling? Is it just some internet punks having fun and posing as these masters?

10-03-2000, 09:26 AM
Just checked out the latest public letter to Chiu, Chi-Ling. Once again the same photos are used, but now they have Chan, Hong-Chung's picture circled. He is standing closer to Lam, Jo; and declared as Lam, Jo's student also. Not a senior student because he has white-trimmed uniform w/Lam, Jo's tiger crane insignia.

Besides HaySayFu's description, has anyone compared Chiu, Kau's; Chan, Hong-Chung's; and Lam, Jo's Hung Gar? Besides the written and oral traditions, does the hung gar all look like Lam, Jo's? - besides the subtle difference which each practitioner infuses in their Hung Gar. It seems like a really big deal in europe and just a yawn in the Canada and the US.

Paul Skrypichayko
10-04-2000, 12:07 AM
Wow, I can't believe how childish this is. Lam Jo's people crying about how good their master is, Chiu's people fighting back.

I guess the Lams must feel pretty threatened by Chiu Chi Ling.

Funny how all of these problems are comming to light when everyone is dead. I did a little research about Lam Jo's newspaper ad that claimed Lam Sai Wing's students as his own; seems like he caught **** for that from the martial arts community in Hong Kong, and that seems like one of the contributing factors why nobody pays much attention to him.

Now this new webpage is also attacking Chan Hon Chung? I've said it before, but who's next? hmmm, maybe Lau Jam? how about some of Tang Fung's people? Come on, how ridiculous can people get? Why are they so intimidated by all the dead masters?

My feeling is, if people think Lam Jo is good, they should go learn from him. No need to try and defame others.

As for more clarification on Chiu Kao and Lam Sai Wing, Chiu Kao was to-di (student) and Lam Sai Wing was si-fu (master). In actuality, Chiu Kao was trained by his si-hings, as is the norm in most kung fu schools. If people do their research, I think they'll find out someone else was his main teacher, not Lam Jo

10-04-2000, 06:31 PM
We really need to put all this in perspective and to rest. I spoke with a friend of mine yesterday who is close to Lam Chun Fai. So this is pretty accurate but still once removed. I should also add, it does NOT come from the owners of Lam Chun Fai's website.

Lam Chun Fai is aware of his website and personally wrote the letter on there. I know nothing about the website in the UK but since it closely follows LCF's I assume that it is also known to Lam Chun Fai.

This is not a sinister plot by the Lam's to get the Chiu's or boost their standing. Look at Chiu Chi Ling's website and you will clearly see slander against Lam Jo. Though I am in both lineages, I am offended by the pot shots he took at Lam Jo. Lam Chun Fai is merely presenting the facts as he knows it and the proof he has to back those up. Lam Jo and Lam Chun Sing are good hung gar men and very gracious. So is Chiu Wai. I have no affiliation with Chiu Chi Ling so can not speak for him but he may not even know about the slander on his site.

Finally, in searching for the truth, it has come to my attention that my statements about Lam Chun Sing not knowing english were wrong and offensive to him. I apologize for giving the impression that he does not speak english. I am told that both he and LCF read and write english. I made the assumption because we only spoke Cantonese in Hong Kong though my Cantonese is not very good.

Paul Skrypichayko
10-04-2000, 11:53 PM
I should also add that there are many points on Chiu Chi Ling's website that are totally incorrect, so this issue isn't exactly black and white.

10-05-2000, 12:19 PM
Well some good has come out of this thread. It has put me in contact with Lam Chun Fai. I can attest that he is quite adept in English and is well aware of the controversy.

He could care less about this stuff if it wasn't for the slander against his father. In defense of his father, he and his students have put together a very good series of evidence to dispute Chiu Chi Ling's claims.

Look at www.hungkuen.8k.com (http://www.hungkuen.8k.com)

Of course it goes against some of the many things we have been told in the states but as I have said in the beginning of all this, this is not a matter for the internet to decide. Only to present the different sides which we have done.

10-17-2000, 03:34 AM
Hi friends,

As I stated earlier, I will be making a statement regarding our position in this matter. After consulting with the elders from our clan, we have decided a public statement is necessary to present our point of views.


This is a public statement in response to the claims that the Lam Jo lineage is making, regarding the relationship between our Grandmaster Tang Fong and Grandmaster Lam Sai Wing.

Tang Fong was a disciple of the Great Grand Master Wong Fai Hung. Tang Fong was a junior training brother to Lam Sai Wing. We acknowledge the fact that Lam Sai Wing had taught Tang Fong and was kind enough to help him when Tang Fong first arrived in Hong Kong from China. However, the fact is that Tang Fong did bai-si to Great Grandmaster Wong Fai Hung and Lam Sai Wing was a si-hing to Tang Fong.
All this might seem very trivial:who is master to whom. However, it is important to present history as is, not to taint it with interpretations.
In addition, we do not recognize the claim that Lam Jo is the head of all Hung Ga.

Yee's Hung Ga Kung Fu Academy of the Tang Fong-Yuen Lin lineage

Jerry Battle of the Tang Fong-Ho Lap Tin lineage