CREATINE.. Good or Bad???????

[JADE ROSE]

Recently I have added Creatine to my training (Weights that is) after all the hype about it and a fair few of my friends recomending it I thought I would give it a try.

Well the results were what I did not expect I could seriously lift more wight and go for longer. Excellent you say ? Until I read the back of the container it comes in telling me not to take it on a full stomach (no explanation given) so I delved a little further into the research and found out that it can give you the sh*ts & dehydration.

Now I am abit reluctant to try it again has anyone been on it for a substancial time and if so how have you found the Side Effects?

[rubthebuddha]

i think this is the most common thread on the health forum.

creatine -- some say good, some say bad. the difference as i see it? individuals. different people benefit different ways, some not at all. i had similar, but not as profound, results as you had. several others have had the same, while some none at all.

on the other hand, some have had negative results. many of these problems can be sourced back to poor hydration -- creatine pulls more water into the muscles and, thus, away from other parts of the body. drink more water when you're on it. other folks, regardless of hydration levels, had stomach problems. i've never heard of any permanent side effect, other than that huge lump on ironfist's back (:D).

as far as the empty stomach -- creatine is said to work best when taken in conjunction with a decent amount of carbohydrate. some brands recommend juice, others have their own advice.

best thing you can do? experiment, in moderation, with the stuff. if it helps, and you don't feel ill in anyway, you have yourself a winner. if you're taking it right and drinking plenty of water, and you're having problems, nix it immediately.

[IronFist]

Don't bother loading creatine. Just start taking 5g a day. Loading it is a waste because your body can't really handle more than 5g a day anyway. The companies just tell you to load with 30g a day so you use more of it and then have to buy more.

i've never heard of any permanent side effect, other than that huge lump on ironfist's back

The hair on the lump is long enough now that I can braid it. Creatine is awesome!

IronFist

[Mckind13]

The lump is Ironfist head, the hair is growing from the ears and nose!
:p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p

JK Iron Fist ol buddy... I really just want to be the sidekick to the greatest super hero that ever lived!

No wait thats the Blue Beatle, Yah he rocks.

I take creatine too. good stuff but I hope it doesn't grow weird lumps or hair.

David

[Ford Prefect]

Drink lots of water while you are on it.

[Kempo Guy]

As mentioned creatine may act as a diuretic and cause dehydration and cramping. From what I understand (which isn't much.. :D) this is caused by water volumizing your muscle cells. This is why it's recommended that you hydrate properly by increasing your water intake when you are on creatine.

I agree with IronFist that there is no need to go through a 'loading phase' with creatine. Studies have shown that one group loading creatine (30g for 4 - 6 days, then using the regular dosage of 5 - 7g/day) for four weeks experienced the same results (in strength and muscle gain) as a group using 5 - 7g creatine a day for a period of four weeks with no loading phase.

Creatine as suggested should be taken with simple carbohydrates, and I have read that a drink containing high-levels of dextrose works best (you can find dextrose in grape juice).

Another study have shown that if Creatine is ingested with OJ, and then followed by half a glass or so of OJ every fifteen minutes (over a period of an hour) results in great gains because of the continued insulin spikes. What I though was kind of odd with this study is that 'rumor has it' that OJ should never be taken with creatine (due to it's acidic content) as it turns into creatinine (sp?). I don't know if this is accurate but it's something that I've been hearing for a long time.

KG

[JADE ROSE]

Thanks for the advice. I hit the gym again tonight on a Creatine High and the pump I got out of biceps was impressive but (always a but) I can't handle the dehydration no matter how much water I drink it still hits me, maybe body make up I don't know. So for the sake of a healthy stress free body I might say good bye to the Creatine and just stay on a balance diet with protein shakes mixed in.

[inic]

i used it for about 6 months 3 years ago.... didnt notice any benefits or side effects...

[Silumkid]

As far as creatine goes, I have enjoyed good gains while using it. So obviously, for me, I am all for it.

I have a tub of Cytodyne's Cell-Tech waiting for me for my next lifting phase. Anybody have any experience with Cell-Tech? I tried it once when I first got it to judge the taste and it burned my throat a little...they say it's due to some sort of acid that helps the shuttling effect, but it still tasted good. I'll be using it in about 4 weeks for my max strength phase...just wanted to see if anyone else has tried it, results, likes/dislikes?

[IronFist]

Jade Rose, what is a creatine high? Did they put caffiene in your creatine?

I heard creatine is best absorbed when taken with warm or room temperature liquids. Something about it becoming less stable as it gets colder (or something).

And since no one has asked about or mentioned it yet, I will, stay away from creatine serum because it sucks.

Now I need to go get this other lump checked out :confused:

Cell-Tech... it's supposed to be alright, I heard it's expensive, though. Cell-Tech gets made fun of a lot because they're all like this:

CELL-TECH CREATINE GIVES 838296.128% BETTER GAINS THAN ALL OTHER BRANDS. YOU WILL ADD 59483.5892% MORE MUSCLE IN ONLY 2 WEEKS WITH CELL-TECH!

As far as I know tho, it's just as effective as any other brand. A few companies got busted for not having their product meet label claims, but I don't think Cell-Tech was one of them.

IronFist

[Kempo Guy]

To elaborate on what IronFist said, one of the reasons "liquid creatine" is not recommended by people is because Creatine when mixed with liquid turns into "Creatinine" after 20 - 30 minutes. Creatinine is a 'waste product' and will not have any effect in size or muscle gain, hence when purchased in liquid form some nay-sayers say it is already in 'creatinine' form... :(
So when mixing your Creatine, make sure you don't mix it and let it sit for a long time before it's consumed.

I've never tried Cell-tech, but EAS Phosphagen HP has worked pretty well for me in the past. I'm going on a cycle of EAS' new Phosphagen XT to see how it does in comparison...

KG

[Jamesbond_007]

Kempo Guy:
I used to use EAS Phosphagen HP and the beginning of this month I wanted to try Phosphagen XT, and all I can say is it rocks!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have been able to add a constant 5 pounds every week to my bench press and back workouts. I've increase my bench press 15lbs already this month, which is huge for me because in the past it would take me 3 months to increase this much. I have also seen an increase of muscle size and over all strength. Personally I am sold on the XT brand!!!!

[Kempo Guy]

Jamesbond_007,

Encouraging to hear that Phosphagen XT is working for you.
I just got my XT today! And decided to start the cycle today instead of next week. :D

I am going on a 8 week cycle with no loading phase and only 5 grams (1 scoop) of creatine per day taken post workout. FWIW, I am also taking Glutamine for faster recovery as I work out six to seven days per week (lift 3 days, cardio/Kettlebell 3 days). On top of that I have my MA training (roughly 3 days a week during my bulking cycle).

KG

[Serpent]

I really don't understand the use of these type of supplements. Surely the body isn't really designed to benefit from such things? And is it purely for gains that you could still make naturally over a slightly longer period of time?

[yu shan]

In my 30`s, creatine worked well! An explosive energy, an apparent water weight gain, who knows what damage to liver. Always remember what goes into your system, goes thru your liver...vitamins, supplements, etc.

[Ford Prefect]

Serpent,

Creatine is naturally in your body and is a much needed part of the energy system of the muscle. ATP is the immediate energy source for activities like sprinting and weight training. Thus a small amount of ATP is stored in skeletal muscle. When that ATP is used, it breaks down into ADP. This ADP then interects with creatine phosphate to create more ATP. This means creatine supplementation will add to the existing creatine in the muscle and allow you to work a bit harder. Harder work = more adaption = more gains. After this ADP-CP resevoir runs dry, your body then metabolizes sugar (glucose/glycogen) in the muscle for energy. The waste product of this conversion is lactic acid... There is a good amount of creatine in red meat, so it is a naturally occuring product; much like protein.

Guys,

I've had decent results with Cell-Tech in weight gaining, but I believe that's because of the 30-40g of carbs it has in every serving as well. This helps with the afore mentioned insulin spike. Any consumption of a good amount of simple carbs will cause an insulin spike.

[morbicid]

One well known problem with creatine is that your gains in size and strength tend to quickly go away when you stop taking it. My opinion is that this is partially because the muscles simply let go of all that excess water they've been retaining while taking creatine.

[Kempo Guy]

Ford,
I couldn't have said it better myself... actually you said it better than I ever could have. :D

morbicid,
You are right that you may lose some mass, however (on the 2 cycles I've done of Creatine) I have never really lost my strength gains (as I continue to train consistently and cycle my workouts/exercises every 2-4 weeks). Even in terms of mass, I would say I only lost about 20% of my overall gain during each cycle. I believe this amount of loss is consistent with most research you find on creatine.

KG

[rubthebuddha]

i on with kempo -- you may lose a little bit of the water mass, but as long as you continue to work the muscles when off creatine as hard you did when you took creatine, there should be no lose in strength. i consider creatine just a little tool to help me reach a goal. once i'm there, i maintain that and set my next goal. if i feel that creatine would help, i continue with it. if i don't, i don't worry about it.

[IronFist]

I added 827593.5738lbs to my bench in only 2 weeks with Cell-Tech creatine.

:D :D :D :D :D :D

IronFist

[JADE ROSE]

The sheeet I started with is Balance.. Rapid Absorbtion Effervescent Creatine. Basically it's a fizzy powder that you add to water. 25% of it is actuall Creatine god knows what the rest is.

I feel pumped during the exercise (my high) as I can lift more and go longer but I am afraid that the after affects are bad for me no matter how much watter I drink I get badly dehydrated. This might only apply to me as I do have a tendancy to get dehydrated at a drop of a hat.

So I am in two worlds to continue or not.

[Silumkid]

Thanks for the anecdotes about Cell-Tech all. I'll let you know how it goes.

Iron,

I saw one of those ads after I got the tub...a buddy of mine was using it but didn't like the taste so i bought it from him and saw the ad afterwards. Gotta love Cytodyne's marketing approach, huh?

Kinda reminds me of that joke about the Russian female bodybuilder.

[TaoBoy]

I would like to suggest that you do all you can to ensure you buy a high quality product. The first brand of creatine I used gave me some mad stomach cramps - consequently I stopped using it before I saw any benefits. Just recently I was told that the brand I used has a poor quality product. It may be BS but the one I am on now costs the same and does not give me any aches or pains. Yet to see gains but am still just getting back into training.

[IronFist]

Did I mention I can now deadlift 9482.58374 times my own bodyweight after using CELL-TECH creatine?

Oh wait. No I can't. Sorry I mentioned deadlift. What's a deadlift? There are only two exercises you can do with weights: Bench press and bicep curls. Nothing else is important. I heard some big guy say "deadlift" once and so I felt cool saying it just now. He was probably talking about biceps curls.

Silumkid: what joke? I want to hear it!

IronFist

[iron thread]

You are right that you may lose some mass, however (on the 2 cycles I've done of Creatine) I have never really lost my strength gains (as I continue to train consistently and cycle my workouts/exercises every 2-4 weeks). Even in terms of mass, I would say I only lost about 20% of my overall gain during each cycle. I believe this amount of loss is consistent with most research you find on creatine.

How do you cycle out of creatine?

[Silumkid]

Alrighty then, here goes Iron...

A Russian female bodybuilder goes to the doctor after a cycle of steroids. She tells the doctor, "I am wery wery concerned about side effect of steroid I take."

Doctor says, "OK, what is problem?"

Bodybuilder says, "Well, you see, ever since I start taking steroids I have hair growth on chest."

Doctor says, "OK, may I look at chest?"

She agrees and the doctor looks down her top and sure enough, he sees some sporadic hair growth on her chest. So he asks, "Yes, I see. Very disturbing. How far does hair go down?"

Bodybuilder replies, "All the way to my balls."

[IronFist]

lol. You could use the same joke with the East German Women's weightlifting team, too, I hear. :)

IronFist

[IronFist]

Originally posted by iron thread


How do you cycle out of creatine?

You just stop taking it.

IronFist

[rubthebuddha]

not sure i'd call it an urban legend, because the source of that story may have been a gym in some boondock town.

either way, it's a bunch of poopies. ignore it.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by BatesMotel
I read an article about how this weight lifter was using it all the time as the other lifters at his gym. One day he is on the treadmill and passes out. He ends up at the hospital because he almost dies and the doctors have to do emergency brain surgery because of creatine!

That was called Ultimate Orange. I believe it's like an ECA stack. I don't think it's got creatine in it.

IronFist

[David]

It 'worries' me that you guys talk about creatine like it was natural or something. Technically, I guess it is, seeing as we have it in our systems already. Maybe I'm linking it too strongly in my mind with steroid use (which makes me shudder) and creatine isn't like steroids at all. Either way, when I see those huge buckets of stuff with stupid labelling, I can't help but think it's like pen1s enlargement apparatus or something.

This is more worrying to me when it comes up on a kungfu forum. I know most of your bios's on KFO so I know you're all hardcore MAists but words like 'muscle growth supplements', 'weight training', 'pumped' and 'bulk' are not the vocabulary of someone who trains a style like mine and I don't hear anyone talking about it in my RL circle except for some overheard beefy do-nothing guys in the bar - and they do it for the girls and for their mates' approval.

To be honest (always am!), it was learning that Bruce Lee used steroids and whatever that made me lose respect for him as a Seeker. He went straight into the Schwarzenegger/Stallone box right then. Bruce Lee: an actor who studied body-building and also did various martial arts in his spare time. Can you see where I'm comng from?

Some may know I don't see the point of weight-lifting at all. Noone in my lineage ever did it as part of their mantis training and that's all I have experience of, really.

Horses for courses, I guess, and I'm not meaning to diss. Just my humble (ignorant?) opinion/preference. The clever ones among you are probably thinking: "this guy's got emotional trauma from early childhood. Was he weaned too early?" Whatever. And you're all shakin' your heads and saying: "this is the guy who's got those mythical lower abs". ;-)

How long's creatine been available? Will it wear-out the liver/muscles/glands after 10 years? 20 years?

Hmmm.

Like I said, I know you guys are 'for real', but I know I am, too.

-David

PS And to keep it right on topic, I say creatine BAD - on no objective basis.

[Jamesbond_007]

creatine has been studied and used SINCE 1932!!!!! I love it when people say, give it 10-20 years and we will see what happens!!!!


The story of the guy falling of the treadmill is because he took Ultimate Orange. I have the article with me, its from a Mens Health Magazine a 1 1/2 ago. Ultimate Orange has large amounts of Ephedra in it (I thing 10 times the recommended daily allowance) plus it has caffeene and other herbs that provide a synergy effect on the body. Thus giving you tons of energy. Its like a legal speed. But it is very very bad. I has caused lost of problems for people and the FDA has banned it from being sold.

The stuff on Bruce Lee taking steriods. What proof is there? Where did you get your info from? I ask because I have looked into Bruce Lee's life a lot and don't you think if he used steroids that would be all over the news? Plus he did not look like he had the common body side effects of steriod use.


The one thing I will say about Creatine, those against it do not talk with any scientific proof on it. They go by stories. I incourage anyone to study it on the Internet, study the work the doctors and universities have done and you will find out that it is harmless.


A lot of people don't lift which is fine and I respect that. But the west and the Soviet have proven what weight training can do to improve any function. Look at Basketball today. When it first started no one lifted weights, now all do and look at all they can do and how much faster they are. The same is true for any sport. Weight training only makes you better, faster and stronger. Look at Frank Shamrock, that guy is fast and powerful, he dominated the UFC. Just because it wasn't done in the past doesn't mean you won't benefit from it.

[Mr. Bao]

I agree with James's point. Bruce Lee doing juice? Where did Bruce Lee het his "juice" from? Did John Little, Bruce Lee historian, missed this fact? I am surprised Bruce's juice dealer didn't come out to the public and show past letters of the dragon and John Little not making money off of it by telling this story. LoL

Creatine is good and have benefited from using EAS XT and it is old HP formula. I however Only used twice a year. I try not to be dependent on any chemical for strength personally. But a little boost never hurts.

Best Cheers.

[Former castleva]

I do not know much but I have read that youngsters should consider before taking creatine.

[Mr. Bao]

I do think anyone under 18 years of age should mess around with any supplements except perhaps MRP, Vit supplementation, and Whey protein. Why? Because their bodies arent fully developed and they have natural "juice" following through your blood. Instead of chasing girls both mentally and physically most of the time, much of their natural manhood juice and time could be geared toward strength training. If they had good training, good diets, and proper rest, their results could be even greater than some adults who are on creatine.

Personally, I started using creatine when I was 16 or 17. EAS was the first to bring this supplement out to market and boy was it expensive then. The smallest bottle costed 40 and that was just the loading phase. LoL. Looking back, I have not suffered from this product now that I am 26. I only wished there were older adults to tell me that I didn't need this yet. I made some of my best gains in size and strength when I was a teen. Now I know why? I do not wake up with morning boners like I did when I was a teen. LoL. Who needs steroids, when I have it flowing through me at time and during my days.

Teenage males, you dont know how much powers you have or your full potential. Some professional body builders would love to have your natural "juice" flowing in their system at their age and present level of development. By the way, I am against teens messing with steroids.

Best Cheers. One.

[Former castleva]

Agreed.
Natural growth and proper training is a good combination.