View Full Version : Attn: Wisdom Mind & Mantis 108

09-18-2000, 10:19 PM
I have a question for the both of you guys.
Wisdom Mind - I'm very interested in the school which you attend. Can you please tell me when is the best time for me to go and check out a class. I seen your schools website, so I know the address as well as the time and days your school meets. I even went on one occassion, but no one buzzed me in. I figured I probably went at a bad time or that your school had changed it's meeting time. Can you also give me a feel for a basic class(ex. forms, exercises, are fighting applictions as well as there philosophies taught. Or is it more like exercises, forms and no real in-depth learning.) I hope I'm not asking to much.

Mantis 108 & Wisdom Mind - From your postings I have learned of the beauty of Pak Mei and I thank you for all of your enlightening posts.... I'm a little confused about how many forms there are. In a previous thread someone mentioned that there are more than 5 forms and from a website and indication was made to 4 forms(Maybe I didn't read carefully enough) Can you guys clear this up for me. I also will post the link of the Pak Mei website where I read about the 4 forms. Also can you please tell me what you consider the essence of Pak Mei to be.
Here is the link:

Thank you,


09-18-2000, 11:39 PM
Buby- The names of Bak Mei's 5 forms(and there were only 5 originals forms) were:
Kau Boe Tui(9 step push)
Ying Jow Leen Kiu(eagle's claw continuous bridge)
Chut Sup Yee Lo Dai Saat Kuen(72 floor-killing fists)
Chut sup Yee Lo Ting Gong Kuen(72 skylight fists)
Sam Mun Kuen(3 doors fist)

These were the forms Cheung Lai-Chin learned from Bak Mei inheritor the Kwong Wei Temple monk. There were only 5 as that is how many the White Eyebrow monk had developed.

CLC expanded and added to this material 10 forms he developed himself to make 15.

[This message was edited by MoQ on 09-19-00 at .]

09-18-2000, 11:45 PM
Thank you for your encouraging words.

I am delighted to hear that you enjoy our posts. I don't speak for any Bak Mei practitioner other that myself. I will share with you only what little I know about the system. Nowadays, there seems to have more and more "experts" of the system appearing.

It is no secrets that many of the Hakka styles Sifus cross trained in more than one style. Kung Fu like human is born of evolution. Concepts become system(s) and vise versa. There are the fundamentlists who accept nothing but original arts, while there are other who pursuit conceptualized arts. Back in the 70's, there were documents upon document of the origin of Sigung's system which he named Bak Mei in honour of his lineage. Most of the forms including the weapons are accounted for their origins in those documents. I have a copy of some of them, which was given to me by my late Sifu. If you ask me, I have learned more than 5 forms and each one of them is as important as others. I will not fall into the debate with those "experts" on this forum. Since they know the system so well, let them prove their point. I have always tried to share what little I know of Bak Mei. Let others do their part. The site you provide me has a very respectful presentation of Bak Mei Pai and of Sigung. Although, I have not met that group of practitioners, I am proud to know that Bak Mei is well kept in the hands of good people. Should you have other question regarding your quest for Bak Mei, please feel free to contact me via email.

Good luck in your search,



Contraria Sunt Complementa

09-19-2000, 04:01 PM
MoQ & Mantis 108,
Thank you for clearing up the confussion in my brain. Both responses have been very helpful and I thank you both for sharing your knowledge. Mantis 108 I will contact you later via e-mail.

Thanks again,


wisdom mind
09-19-2000, 10:21 PM
hey there, please copy & paste your post in email form to iandijah@hushmail.com ill answer any ?s there. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

09-20-2000, 02:18 AM
Is'nt it true that Grandmaster Cheung Lee Chan Cross trained? Before he learnt Pak Mei wasn't he a Lung Ying practioner? Therefore did he add or change anything what he was taught about Pak Mei? Just from MoQ's answer and your answer, do not make sense.
So what you are saying is you accept ''conceptualized arts''
Remember Pak Mei Person is not Cheung Lee Chan person. Very Important.

09-21-2000, 02:06 AM
You all say such similar catch-phrases, it's difficult to keep you separate even with the half-thought mannerisms...

I don't know how much clearer I can be, but CLC learned Bak Mei's 5 original forms from the Kwong Wei monk and based on his experience, built this info into 15 forms. Lots of students aren't as swift as they could be and so, much has been changed from branch to branch. I think there are now even a dozen or so training forms. There definately is some BS Bak Mei floating and sinking around...beware! hahaha

09-21-2000, 04:23 AM

You are right that we are all different "person".
Have you notice the response pattern on the other thread? May be it's just my weary eyes, but I see an echoing of what you input in there and the responses are always I already know or I was going to say but I let you say it first... Thank you for your encouraging words and support. Anyway, I will entertain Cloud 1 here.

Dear Cloud 1,

I have no clue what you are searching for? What is your interest in Bak Mei? Are you going to learn the art and not sure of the way to go about it, or are you just want a martial arts community gossip? I am of Sigung Cheung Lai Chun's linerage whether anybody like it or not. I know it is a profound art and I have very limit knowledge of the art. I don't claim experties on it nor do I represent Bak Mei at all. If anyone ask me about Bak Mei (some people prefer us to use the Cheung Lai Chun's Kung Fu), I will share what I know of what little I have learned. I, as an independent thinking "person", DO NOT believe in any secrets or secrets linerage. Ignorance and imcomputance can easily be hidden in a secret nut shell. That just nuts. Those people who seem to think more forms are more authentic. Let's me say this: you may have learned 108 different techniques but I bet you can't even do a half decent "Pheonix Eye Punch". I know I have yet to reach the point where I can have full command of my body to do a simlpe PEP with ease. If you say you can, I surmise you have yet to see a perfect PEP done by a true master.

All I have to say was in my post above. Please read carefully.

Good luck. May you one day fine peace in your mind and perceive things as they should be.

Peace to all,


Contraria Sunt Complementa

09-21-2000, 05:00 AM
Hi Mantis,
I apologise to you if I have offended you. Could you answer me this what art does Integraman do? Do you have his e-mail address?
Any help would be apprciated. Thanks.

wisdom mind
09-21-2000, 06:11 PM
/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

09-22-2000, 07:03 AM
Dear Cloud 1,

Sorry, if I sounded harsh with my respond. I rather make friend with fellow KFO members than foe. However, lately there are quite a surge of posts trying to discredit over beloved Grandmaster. Please do forgive my over reacting.

Integramen is one of the highly intellegent martial artists. Although we have not met in person but I cherrish the online friendship I have with him. Since he has not reveal his style publicly, I think I should respect his choice. I do have his email address, but I would advice you to observe protocol. Perhaps, you would post a direct request to him. I am sure if you make your intention clear that you are seek a online friendship with fellow MAist he would respond favorably. I am sorry I have to decline this request, I hope you would understand. Friends?

Peace be with you.


Contraria Sunt Complementa