Mainland Mantis/ HK Mantis

[MantisifuFW]

Mantis Seeker,

In answer to your question on a comparision between HK and mainland 7*, (in short fashion, we can continue through posts and answer clearly and specifically rather than me rambling), I offer the following as a starting point.

The mainland has been indeed affected by the past fourty years of communist prohibition and modern Wushu. It has also developed in the hands of competent masters as a creature that remains defiantely separate from modern Wushu.

Mainland TLQ remains a powerful, diverse and combat-oriented art form. Those who hold that it is not, I believe, are mistaken. I make that statement as one who has trained with them. They are as technically developed, pragmatic and theoretically sophisticated as anyone.

HK Seven Star/ Northern PM too is evolving. There are, without doubt, Southern influences and the influences of other systems in HK Mantis, Eagle Claw for example.

My initial response would be that we are all still Tanglang Quan. That we are indeed distinct in our approaches is also true.

Hope this serves as a good enough starting point, I am new at this on this forum.
Steve Cottrell

[mantis_seeker]

Sifu Cottrell,

Would you say the underlying princliples are still the same in HK tang lang and mainland tang lang? What is the underlining core of tang lang that even with the southern infulences it is still tang lang? Since astheticly the two can be very different sometimes.

Thanks

[MantisifuFW]

Mantis Seeker,

As I reread your original question, I see that I have not really addressed your question very well, sorry.

The additions such as Drunken sets, I believe, illustrate that HK masters were taking in much from the rich and close quartered environs of Hong Kong. It is a distinction even as our inclusion of the Luo Han Gong is one. (Mainland Tanglang Quan does not share this set either, at least from my research).

The real distinction for HK Tanglang is the work of Luo Guangyu, a champion fighter and master instructor. I have seen the style of Yang Weixin, Luo's older gongfu brother who was teaching at the Shanghai Qingwu at the same time as Luo, and there are marked differences. Yang's inheritors in Shanghai look much more like Yantai than Hongkong. Teachers of Yang's line speak highly in their historical recollections of Master Luo and their evaluation of his work.

So, yes HK 7* is a distinct branch of TLQ. (long answer, short question)

Steve Cottrell

[MantisifuFW]

Mantis Seeker,

It is far more than esthetics. Sets provide suggestions at tactics and training emphasis. That mainland 7 * TLQ has a larger frame overall in both long fist and Tanglang techniques is a statement of the type of energy and emphasis they place; strong and yet flexible power that whips around them.

HK 7*TLQ on the other hand is an overall smaller frame than its mainland cousins, especially in its Tanglang movements. I remember being told by Lai sifu to let my long movements be VERY long but my short movements to be VERY short. Overall I believe that it is in the expression of the Tanglang movements that master Luo may have taken from Meihua in that Meihua has much smaller framed Tanglang movements. In fact, I have read in Master Huang's notes that master Luo's Tanglang was a mixture of Qixing and Meihua with others. (I expect to be challenged on this, but it is where I am in my research).

As for keywords, there are differences but I believe it is the frame of expression that speaks more than an emphasis on a particular principle.

Hope this makes sense,

Steve Cottrell

[mantis_seeker]

Sifu Cottrell,

Yes that does make sense. Thanks for the clarifaction to multiple questions!

mantis_seeker

[cha kuen]

I have heard that china mantis uses more of the waist while hong kong mantis people are more square.

any thoughts?

[Tainan Mantis]

Does 7* PM in China have Beng Bu 2 man form?

I wonder if Luo Guangyu was inspired to do this while staying at Jing Wu?

[MantisifuFW]

Cha Kuen,

The external waist movement is greater in Mainland Tanglang commensurant with the larger hand movements. In HK and Taiwan TLQ the waist is equally important but is more internal than external.

I hope this makes sense.

Tainan,

From my experience, they do not have ling in any set.

Steve Cottrell