Wushu/CMA movement

[MightyB]

What are your opinions with what's going on in the Chinese Martial Arts communities?

Starting with the Wushu movement and extending into the more traditional and combative arts, there is that move to standardize CMA. Is it really all that wrong? I see the martial arts universities and studies going on into CMA, TCM, and qi gong in China and I'm starting to like what I see. I agree that wushu seemed too flashy and not combat effective in the beginning, but I've come to realize that was the performance aspect of Wushu and that a lot of the athletes had traditional training along with the compulsaries.

[MightyB]

What are your thoughts and opinions?

[red5angel]

I am not sure what you are getting at here MightyB. Do you mean standardizing the way each martial artist would train in his style? Standardizing the way all CMA are taught so all CMA are taught similarly?
I think in the case of the first example, it wouldn't be an issue. In the beginning it helps to be standardized. Helps new students know where they are at and where they are going. However I feel as a growing martial artist, you should eventually come to a point wher eyou begin to adapt your style to yourself.

[MightyB]

It's where you study different forms from different styles type thing. Kind've like how Master Pan describes himself on his web page. Real forms taught in the traditional method but where if you wanted to learn Hung Gar's Iron Wire with Eagle Claws Small Cotton Fist, you could. More of a quasi-academic approach.

[Souljah]

im still abit baffled as to what youre saying.
Do you mean them being taught in a similar way and many styles accessible to anyone?
how would this standardised approach be achieved?

[red5angel]

Aaaaahhhhhh, then I may have voted wrong! I have a hard itme with mixing these things together, especially at the beginning phases.
My theory goes that most of these arts have been around for along time, and you train the forms and the drills and other contents in a way that probably makes the most sense. Alot of that stuff has a reason most people aren't aware of or don't realise.
Mixing forms from different styles might just get a person mixed up more then it may help them, although as time goes on I think it's not a bad thing to learn other arts, sort of expand your horizons.

[MightyB]

I'm just trying to spark some discussion. Not so much of mixing and matching, more of what they tried at the Ching Wu athletic associations back in the day. Where it is more of a CMA thing.

[GLW]

Don't get what is going on with Competition Wushu confused with the goal to standardize and analyze things.

The work to standardize and analyze started with Ching Wu and places such as the Nanjing Central Guoshu College in the 1920's and before.

A great number of people practicing Northern Long Fist are doing things that are directly related to these efforts.

Mixing two methods such as a northern style and a southern style when neither one has been understood can be bad. Mixing two nothern styles with very similar approaches is not. If it were, the combination of Cha, Hua, Pao, Hong, and Tan Tui into the Zhaquan (Cha Quan) system would not be done.

In many ways, everyone has the same configuration in their body. A human body can only move a certain number of ways. Certain movements work well together and others may not. The trick is figuring out what works and what doesn't from a movement standpoint...not too different from a martial standpoint...just a different focus. Both ideas CAN be put together.

[MightyB]

The work to standardize and analyze started with Ching Wu and places such as the Nanjing Central Guoshu College in the 1920's and before.

This is more along the lines of what I was trying to convey in the original post.

[Losttrak]

The more people try to make it all the same.. the more people will disagree on how things are done. Even in my school we have varying opinions that contradict about how things "should be." Entropy is all we can count on... =)

[firepalm]

Essentially I would agree with GLW regarding the mixing or blending of different traditional styles.

In so far as 'standardizing' of things going on China, you have a couple of different movements; 1) What is going on with competition/sport Wushu (taolu) & San Da/Shou. 2) Then there is the Ranking/Duan system. And finally 3) the concept of standardizing 'traditional' systems for both competition & propagation.

1) Wushu taolu & San Da/Shou, the development of these two sports is essentially driven by the IWuF & the Chinese Wushu Federation. How & the manner in which these two very different sports develop is so far removed from the say or input of any 'traditionalists' that may have objections. The growth of these two sports I believe will continue so long as China remains communist, the government puts huge amounts of resources into these sports. Many traditionalists have objection to this & I feel it is because they have the misimpression that these sports are intended to be wholly representative of Chinese martial arts, which is not the case. Wushu taolu & San Da/Shou should simply be taken as two aspects of the Chinese martial arts which is much more diverse then these two sports.

2) Ranking/Duan system is an effort to develop a standardized grading system that can be utilized to acknowledge the level of an instructor/coach/master. Some think this is being applied only to modern wushu but is being applied also to traditional stylists. It is of course meeting with a lot of objection, as many feel is impossible to attach a fair & equitable overall grading system to the many varied styles of CMA. Even Canada (see www.wushucanada.com for more info) is trying to apply just such a system of its own. In principle, I feel, a good idea but hard to apply.

3) Traditional standardizing, with many traditional styles wanting to have a venue of their own for competition there has been a move to develop 'traditional' standardized forms as is the case with Praying Mantis. Within China this has not been wholly embraced & almost completely unknown of outside of China. I personally feel it has merit, however, believe it would be impossible to apply on a global type level.

With regards to trying to standardize the whole of CMA into some sort of one '****genized' style I think this both impossible & would be counterproductive as one of the things that I feel will keep the CMA going forward is the diversity.
:cool:

[Laughing Cow]

Personally, I think standardisation in most forms is bad.

You impose standards and thinks will have to be forsaken in order to conform to the standard.

Maintaining a quality standard within one syle/system is one thing, but there should still be enough freedom to let each Sifu do his own stuff as he sees fit.

If this freedom is not guaranteed than we will see more Kwoons/ styles splintering and splitting of do form new styles/associations like what happened with many of the JMA & KMA styles.

MA training already is way to restricted in what can be trained/taught and what not by local laws, perceptions, etc.
No need to further restriction should be applied.


Just my thoughts.

[David Jamieson]

no standards = incorrect teachings.

each school has a set of standards. If they aren't adhered to, the art is forfeit because of sloppiness and incorrectness in the style.

let you standards fall and so to does your artform.

this, i believe to be true.

not that there should be one "sweeping" blanket of standards for all cma, but there should be standards based on principles of a system and how to adhere to those principles through the teachings.

low standards = bad kungfu, high standards= hard to do and good kungfu because not just every schmuck with silk pajamas and a weapons collection can truly perform the martial arts.

the higher your standards the better your art form.

cheers

[joedoe]

Standardisation is a two-edged sword. How do you standardise art? I agree that there is a need to ensure a teaching standard, however how can you restrict the expression of an art and still maintain the art? I have a bad feeling that it would lead to stagnation and the eventual death of the arts.

As for mix-n-match MA - my personal belief is that this is OK as long as you have a firm foundation in one art before you start mixing-n-matching.