Forward Thinking

[David Jamieson]

Hey, here's some good news.

In Toronto, Canada, York region, the CCMA has approached the school board regarding the inclusion of Kungfu into it's Gym curriculum.

The school board for York region has accepted and the program is under way. With 6 schools activily participating.

Lee Chi Wai has designed the program for the school system and oversees and instructs it himself.

This is a first in Canada where Kungfu is an option over volleyball or dodgeball in gym class. It also is demonstrative of the need for inclusion of cultures in the school curriculum.

As a Kungfu practitioner, I can only hope that this really catches on and becomes widespread.

pretty cool eh? and congrats to the CCMA for getting this done.

cheers

[ShaolinTiger00]

good and bad.

good in that they may become flexible and healthy and forms will help them concentrate to instructions and memory skills.

bad in that they will be given the false pretense that they will be able to fight.

[David Jamieson]

hey st00-

I can't think of any bad in the idea at all.

I don't think the pretense is on training these kids to fight, it's more about teaching them Kungfu. Of which, fighting is only an aspect.

Lee Chi Wai is a traditional Kungfu teacher with 30yrs of background. I hardly think he'll be hyping the kids on fighting :D

Comparably, hockey is more dangerous.

cheers

[Souljah]

sorry, how old are these kids you are referring to?
because I can see it being bad in the way of young kids and bullying, not knowing the full extent of what and why they are learning at such a young age. But this is the only thing I can really see wrong with it. but I guess could easily be avoided with a good teacher. Like you say kung

[David Jamieson]

well, my personal opinion is that kids think differently than adults.

as adults we tend to hold to thoughts dependent on our own experience and socialization. we hold prejudices and make judgements based on our experience.

kids on the other hand do not have a whole lot of prejudice or judgemental thinking simply because they do not have acquired experience to do so.

the bullys we see in our school yards tend to get these behaviours from their home ground social experience. Or in other words from bad parenting.

In a school setting, there are pretty strict standards regarding what can and cannot be held up and taught to children. Fighting, and bullying is not in the curriculum and generally these behaviours are in many ways dealt with in a school setting.

so, anyway, to answer the question, the kids are in the elementary grade ranges and the teachings being propogated deal more with health and cultural awareness.

from what I know of the program there is not the same emphasis on the teachings as there would be with an adult mind. so sparring is not a big part of it and martial intent isn't either. It is more of a fun way to get fit, become flexible and to get insight into the chinese culture because a large part of the populace here is of chinese origins and therefore it is as useful to teach the kids about chinese culture as it is to teach them the euro centric stuff that we generally spoon feed our youth in the north american school curriculums.


after all who's more likely to have an open mind? a child or an adult?

my money's on the kids because my experience tells me that most adults have difficulty overcoming their own prejudicial thinking and actions.

cheers

[MightyB]

In a way, this helps promote the idea of standardization. After all, how could you hope for widespread acceptance into Canada's school systems if there isn't a reference point for what's being taught.

This is kind've hinting on why I posted the standardization poll earlier this week. How can you hope to have kung fu or martial arts as a school curriculem if you have ten thousand people claiming ten thousand ways of doing it. I've often thought that kf would be a great asset in schools, but how? Judo has standards, tae kwon do has standards, and even karate has certain pre set criteria, but kung fu has none. This limits its potential for success in the US educational system. I prefer the Ching Wu method of standardization over the current Wushu movement.

[Losttrak]

touche'

[David Jamieson]

I dunno Mighty B-

There are thousands of techniques with thousands of applications and there are thousands of teachers and again, thousands of students.

There are fundaments that map across virtually all systems dependent on whether the style focuses on long, short or mid range or combinations of these.

Many of the principles that drive Kungfu training from one style to the next are also similar.

If we take a look at the codified and cannonized styles, we see that indeed there are many similarties. moreso than differences.

overall, the biggest differences i see in kungfu is mostly politics.

as for how to "do" a particular technique, the body mechanics are dependent on the stylist, but my bone structure is essentially the same as yours, therefore, the physics are same/same.

all this can be tested and what's "wrong" can be defined and what's "right" can also be defined.

not everything works in a system just because it is standardized either. but that's a whole other discussion. :)

I would have taken kungfu over football on any given day had I been given the opportunity to choose when I was a grade schooler.

cheers

[guohuen]

I think it's a great option. Any reputable Martial Art would be a good option in my opinion.

[MightyB]

Kung Lek,

I think that it'd be great to get the masters together for the major classifications of CMA to discuss a common curriculem for CMA training. You can have reps from Northern, Southern, and Internal come up with 2 or three base forms for each classification to be taught at elementary and high schools limiting it to 20 to 30 forms. This could be comparible to undergrad training, after which the students could specialize in a certain style. Also, it would be beneficial to have some general san shou/san da and shuai jou training. That way, it would be understood that anyone participating in the general martial arts curriculem could be put to certain standards and everyone should know the same things. It's would be testable, transferrable, and competitive. What's so wrong with that?

[ShaolinTiger00]

“There are thousands of techniques with thousands of applications and there are thousands of teachers and again, thousands of students.”

Yet there are less than 100 techniques that are needed for effective combative kungfu. A perfect example of why organization is a great idea. There is so much garbage in the CMA! Students are confused, training is an abomination and a fantasy world where chi can “uproot” people and butterfly kicks actually work, is touted as the truth!

The people who say otherwise are in denial and scared. They like the wool over their eyes and they like the security that they feel when they envision themselves as modern Shaolin monks, able to perform amazing feats of agility all while kicking butt!

Kungfu is not just a combat art, like the “do” arts of Japan “ju do, aiki do, karate do” etc. it is a way of life, and the intention is moral character above all else. However make it clear to the practitioners of the arts that “this is fighting!” and “these are forms to help build endurance, agility, and clever skills developed by our style” make sure that the two are understood to be separate.



Contemporary Wushu would be a much better choice for children.

[guohuen]

I disagree.

[ShaolinTiger00]

The people who say otherwise are in denial and scared.


This thread should be titled "Reverse thinking."

Kung Lek - I understand you underlying motive of posting - that a school is open enough to see kf as a benefit to children.

Wushu would be great for their bodies, and lessons on chinese culture, mythology, customs, fables w/ moral lessons would be much more benefit.

[David Jamieson]

Wushu would be great for their bodies, and lessons on chinese culture, mythology, customs, fables w/ moral lessons would be much more benefit.

I think the straight up goods would be better overall.

a little of this and that for childrens entertainment value and perhaps as a vehicle to helping them understand hows and whys, but overall, Kungfu is as valid as any other training provided by schools.

I think preconceptions and misconceptions about Kungfu, such as "stories" we all here is more dangerous to the survival of the arts. As opposed to say, just doing the hard work and understanding that in order to succeed in anything in life, it takes hard work. That lesson in and of itself is one of the greatest offerings of Kungfu practice.

cheers

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00

Kungfu is not just a combat art, like the “do” arts of Japan “ju do, aiki do, karate do” etc. it is a way of life, and the intention is moral character above all else.

Actually -Do means way of Life in Japanese.

And the Samuria and warriors also had to learn non-martial skils like poetry, flower arrangemetns and similar.

Also in reality there is no difference between xx-Jitsu & xx-Do just different emphasis on different aspects.

Many JMA guys I spoke to refer to their art either as -jitsu or -do depending on what they are discussing and sometimes use both within a space of a few minutes.

During the Edo-era which was a largely peaceful period more -Do concepts were cultivated than the -Jitsu concepts as in lets say the Muromachi-period.
Even the Swords changed from the Tachi to the more decorative Katana.

Just some info for the interested parties.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00
good and bad.

good in that they may become flexible and healthy and forms will help them concentrate to instructions and memory skills.

bad in that they will be given the false pretense that they will be able to fight.

For someone with "Shaolin" in his username, you sure have a bad opinion of kung fu. Just because there are a lot BS artists out there, don't throw away the whole lot.

For example, I'm not going to consider all Americans superior, arrogant pr!cks just based on my assessment of you.

[Merryprankster]

And in return, we won't think that all Kung Fu practitioners from overseas are elitest *****s with all the answers based on our assessment of you.

I think your avatar is clever and you've said some funny things in the past, but you've pretty much been a **** lately and I don't have a problem saying it.

[Braden]

ShaolinTiger
"Students are confused, training is an abomination and a fantasy world where chi can “uproot” people and butterfly kicks actually work, is touted as the truth!
...
Contemporary Wushu would be a much better choice for children."

But contemporary wushu is the only place you'll find butterfly kicks.
:confused: