ok, correct me if i'm wrong, But Jujitsu is a grappling art right? shenmue related

[Souljah]

Was playing shenmue 2 the other day and noticed Ryo said he did jujitsu, but the thing is he has a very bruce lee-ish style of fighting and not what I had thought JJ was all about.
Could this just be a ballz up on the game developers account or am I wrong in thinking that JJ is a grappling art?

Or did they just make ryo more like versatile with the bruce lee style to appeal to a wider audience>?

[Martial Joe]

Yeah I know what is that crap.
They should have based it on Karate seeing how hes a Japanese striker.

[Laughing Cow]

Souljah.

Proper Japanese JJ is a full system and contains a lot more than grappling skills.

It has strikes, kicks, joint locks, throws and the rest in it too.

Hope this helps.

[Martial Joe]

Yeah but that games goes alittle over bored for the jj striking.

[Martial Joe]

by the way...thats a crazy cow man.

Cows are nuts thats why haha!!!!!

[ricksitterly]

From what I've read / heard, Japanese Jiu Jitsu is one of the more older arts --- from which many other styles, like karate, are derived from. I read that jiu jitsu comes from bujitsu, which is one of the great "mother styles" of japan. Just from what I remember from some reading I've done. I'm not really sure if japanese jiu jitsu and brazilian jiu jitsu are related. In fact, I'm not sure if they're even spelled the same.

[ricksitterly]

actually NO... i checked, my sources say japanese style is spelled Jujitsu. there's no "i" in the ju. where as brazilian jiu jitsu has one.

[Laughing Cow]

ricksitterly.

Both Jiu & Ju are recognised spelling but different systems of romanisation.
It has to do with the way that the japanese kana are pronounced.

"Jiu" is the way it should be written (Ji + u) whereas "Ju" is more phonetically correct.

The US is still using the older System ("Jiu") that is no longer used & taught in japan.

You can still find the older method of romanisation on old signs in japan.

Hope this clears things up.

[IronFist]

Both Jiu & Ju are recognised spelling but different systems of romanisation.
It has to do with the way that the japanese kana are pronounced.


Yup.

IronFist

[carly]

a complete art in THEORY, but in reality it rarely is.

[Oso]

my experience has it as jujutsu


just to throw another spelling into the mix

:)

[Laughing Cow]

Jitsu vs Jutsu (http://adrr.com/bengoshi/jitsu.htm)


Discussion (http://pub82.ezboard.com/fmartialarts82280frm11.showMessage?topicID=3.topic )

[ricksitterly]

wow.... the battle between jiu's and ju's and jutsu's and jitsu's.... this could get ugly. Hurry, everyone pick a side

[shinwa]

There's some Baji thrown in tooo. Remember that his dad was training in China for awhile and what he learned there was mimplemented into the hazuki style. :eek:

[Laughing Cow]

No battle at all.

You either can know the correct japanese word & spelling or not.

Makes me wonder about all those "Sensei" that use the wrong spelling, could it be a reflection of their skill & knowledge in the art too??

But than we all practice Gong Fui don't we??

To be serious for a second.

Sometimes I really wonder about MA that don't seem to know the correct spelling and terms for their style and gear.

Example.
Nunchucks or Nunchuckas vs Nun-Chaku

There is no plural in japanese too.

[Oso]

juijuitsu


then you could pronounce it however you like

:)

[Serpent]

Isn't it pronounced zhoooo zhooootsssuu with a heavy Spanish/Portugese accent?

[Chang Style Novice]

I prefer Jew justice.

[Serpent]

What about Jizz Juices?

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Laughing Cow
No battle at all.

You either can know the correct japanese word & spelling or not.

Makes me wonder about all those "Sensei" that use the wrong spelling, could it be a reflection of their skill & knowledge in the art too??

But than we all practice Gong Fui don't we??

To be serious for a second.

Sometimes I really wonder about MA that don't seem to know the correct spelling and terms for their style and gear.

Example.
Nunchucks or Nunchuckas vs Nun-Chaku

There is no plural in japanese too.

not so sure that's a direct reflection. if you know the english name, but don't know chinese, japanese, etc. name, who cares as long as you know how to apply it? as long as you aren't trying to front like you know... I won't say "he-daka jimae" is the way to spell it if I don't know. I'd just teach students the english names.

[Serpent]

My favourite mispronounciation is numchuks.

AHhahaahahaha!

:D

[SevenStar]

what did you call yourself - numbnuts?

[Laughing Cow]

Sevenstar.

I reckon if you are really serious about the Art you would make the extra effort to learn all about it and spread it intact.

But than there are a lot of people that only seem to care about a small part of a style/system.
;)

[SevenStar]

true - but there are also those that don't know... If a person studies under one of the teachers who never bothered to learn the real names, the student may never know them either.

[Serpent]

So the student is the numbnuts. ;)

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

"But than there are a lot of people that only seem to care about a small part of a style/system. "


their ar also planty of poeple that dotnt car abut speling.

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by SevenStar
true - but there are also those that don't know... If a person studies under one of the teachers who never bothered to learn the real names, the student may never know them either.

True.

But, OTOH, he might try to find out to round his knowledge off, after he discovered that his teacher doesn't know.

[SevenStar]

yeah, that's true also.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Serpent
So the student is the numbnuts. ;)

:D

[Souljah]

LMAO

lol u bloody asses!!! :p :p :D

Theres like 5 posts on here that actually tell me about JJ (ahhh your not getting me into the spelling nonsense :p :cool: :cool: )


Shinwa said

There's some Baji thrown in tooo. Remember that his dad was training in China for awhile and what he learned there was mimplemented into the hazuki style.

yea, I suppose theres nothing wrong with a master modifying his style alittle to suit..
But when the tai chi guy in the park (cant remember his name)
asked ryo what style he did I was expecting him to say something like modifyed shotokan or something. Just didnt expect JJ to be mentioned.

I know you guys say that JJ is a 'complete' style but the way ryo fights its more like JKD than anything else

(in a slightly high pitched voice: "formless, like water.. you PUT WATER INTO A CUP it becomes the cup, YOU PUT IT IN A TEAPOT It becomes the teapot etc etc

[Sho]

One simple solution for the spelling issue: The only correct way to spell these words is "j(y)u" and "jutsu". Other romanizations (ie. jiu, jitsu) are 100% wrong, because there actually is a standardized romanization system for Japanese, unlike Cantonese. End of story.

[ShaolinTiger00]

Sho is correct. Jujutsu is the only correct spelling.

Jujutsu doesn’t necessarily have grappling. Jujustsu was just a catch word for hundreds of unarmed combat syles, just like the words “kung fu”. Some had grappling throws etc, while others had striking, joint locks etc. (look at the difference between wing chun and longfist)

Jujustu should be used in the past tense as Judo proved to be the more effective and practical art. Virtually every existing jujutsu school merged with Kano (including the Fusen-Ryu famed for their matwork).

Unfortunately some people claim to teach traditional jujutsu but the majority of them are false and their methods look nothing like the pre judo jutsu (pre Meiji restoration)

Typically what a jujitsu man in modern times does is a poor blending of judo, kempo, karate or perhaps hapkido.

[Oso]

Jujutsu is the only correct spelling

I thought it might of been.

My experience has been w/ a group of torakendo guys.

I think there jujutsu is pretty old school but I don't have any
experience with other jj to compare. They train it as a separate
system complete with kicks, punches as well as the joint
manipulation and matwork. The method for punching is different
from most other methods of punching but I can't remember
enough to try and explain what I was shown. Sorry.


matt

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by Laughing Cow
Sevenstar.

I reckon if you are really serious about the Art you would make the extra effort to learn all about it and spread it intact.

But than there are a lot of people that only seem to care about a small part of a style/system.
;)

i don't think that's a very accurate measure of someone's sincerity, honestly. i'll agree that if your priority is the transmission of the art for the art's sake, then yeah the vocabulary is part of that. but if your emphasis is on anything but the faithful transferrence of the style, with all it's cultural and stylistic trappings, then the use or disuse of vocabulary shouldn't really be an issue. it doesn't reflect laziness. it reflects priorities.

that said, it may be indicative of a lack of knowledge. but that's no more reliable a litmus test than judging the worth of a teacher because he knows what 'sinawali' means.


stuart b.

[ShaolinTiger00]

with all it's cultural and stylistic trappings

welcome to the land of kungfu. We've lain out some nice silk pajamas for you and there are some chi- energizing stones to your left. Place them on your dantien while you sleep. Enjoy your stay in ancient China.

[apoweyn]

well bugger. i was just starting to get the hang of modern-day rockville.

[Former castleva]

Never think what you see in video games is for real,really.
It takes a very small examination on www to find out what jujutsu is.Definitely there are many styles and even various theories on what it´s exact origins and influences,some though are well known and it is a good theory to say jujutsu comes from samurai,for unarmed purposes.
BTW,in my opinion,bjj should not be confused with jujutsu but that´s me.
All the way with American kenpo etc. :)

[ricksitterly]

About the whole spelling thing, I dont believe either is right or wrong. Keep in mind that the fighting arts , when brought to this country from asia, have names that were originally spelled using asian characters (be it chinese, japanese, whatever). The only true spelling, as it was passed down over the coarse of hundreds of years, was written in that language. They did not use the same alphabet as we do when they created the name. I suppose in the English language, as long as you can pronounce it correctly, meaning does the english spelling make us pronounce it in the same fashion as they do in asia, then it is serving its purpose. But enough of that ....let me tell you a little something about what BJJ does for your teeth!

As I posted yesterday, during an intense physical workout in jiu jitsu, the body's muscles can be stimulated to a point of sporadic contractions. As grappling stresses all of the muscles in the body, this includes the muscles in the mouth. Indeed, the very muscles that surround the teeth, including the tongue and cheek muscle structures, spasm in a cleaning motion during an intense grappling workout. The tissue reaches deep into hard to reach spaces (that are usually unreachable for a toothbrush), and removes plaque and small food particles that are stuck in the teeth. If you'll notice, most professional grapplers have very bright smiles. As a test, I quit brushing for a period of 3 months. As a substitution, I added 4 hours a week into my existing grappling schedule. Not only did my teeth become whiter during this period, but after the first week of the experiment people were making comments about how fresh my breath smelled.... an almost winter green aroma.
I know there are probably going to be a lot of skeptics out there but it really makes perfect sense. How do you think ancient people kept their teeth clean? Toothbrushes and toothpaste havent been around forever, and surely they didnt just let their teeth rot and decay. This is the only logical explaination for why ancient fissilized human skulls are found with so many teeth intact. Early humans must have studied SOME type of grappling art. Most likely it was jiu jitsu.

Now some of you may be tempted to try this "no brushing" experiment, and I would highly recommend it. But remember that you must engage in extremely intense grappling matches in bjj. Grappling in a relaxed state will rot your teeth out if you don't brush them. So in order to avoid brushing, push the muscles to their maximum level of exertion. This will stimulate all the body's muscles, including those surrounding the teeth and gums, and let this phenominal dental occurance start happening. Till next time, i wish you all healthy grappling, and healthy white smiles.

[ShaolinTiger00]

I dont believe either is right or wrong.

Then you would be wrong.

jujutsu is the only correct way to spell the word.

jiu jutsu - was a mispelling but has been kept for traditional reasons. - doesn't make it right.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by Laughing Cow
Sevenstar.

I reckon if you are really serious about the Art you would make the extra effort to learn all about it and spread it intact.

But than there are a lot of people that only seem to care about a small part of a style/system.
;)

And I reckon if your really cared about the art, or Japanese terminology for that matter, you'd realize Jujitsu is not an art at all. It's a term for any indigenous, bare hand Japanese style.

Just like Bojustsu refers to any staff system, jojutsu to the stick, iaijutsu to the sword, etc. et al.

And how can you complain about the "proper spelling" when the Japanese didn't even use a western alphabet in ANY capacity in the 1600's when most of this stuff was at it's height? That's like saying you don't know Tai Chi Chuan because you spell it Taijiquan.

[Water Dragon]

Why yes Sevenstar, I am feeling quite feisty today :p

[ricksitterly]

like i said before, shaolin tiger, the TRUE original spelling did not use our alphabet. All we have to work with are translations.

as long as we can pronounce it correctly using the spelling we have, then it is serving its purpose. jujutsu is just one of OUR ways to spell it, who's to say that the founders of the art would agree with how anyone spells it in english

[ShaolinTiger00]

jujutsu is just one of OUR ways to spell it, who's to say that the founders of the art would agree with how anyone spells it in english

You're still incorrect. stop flailing.

The correct English translation of the japanese word for "gentle/supple/pliable" is ju JU J U *makes J and U in sign language* Can you understand?

anything else is an incorrect translation. This is from translation scholars.

[ricksitterly]

So the "scholars" agree with you... of coarse, maybe they just agree with you because you have them locked in your bathroom tied to the shower faucet, not allowing them to go to their translation classes anymore, feeding them only crackers every tuesday and saturday ( occasionally violating them with the plunger), but the founders of the art are still long dead. You can't change that. Maybe they would have wanted it spelled Jooie TJuivtsue. with the T's and V's and i's silent. No one has any way of knowing, and only the founder can dictate the spelling. Not the language translaters, regardless of how educated they are.

(Where did you find these scholars anyway? You scholar-napping sicko!)

[ShaolinTiger00]

When Jujutsu was first taught in the West (around the turn of the 20th century), attempts were made at translating the Japanese words, and to write them romanized. The result usually obtained in western languages, was Jiu jitsu or Jujitsu. In time, more and more contact between the West and Japan, resulted in newer spellings of these Japanese words; resulting in Jujutsu. The official way to romanize Japanese words, gives the spelling Jujutsu. This is based on the translation provided by The Original Modern Reader's Japanese-English Character Dictionary (2nd eds), written by Andrew Nelson, which is considered the “bible” for the translation of kanji.


;)

And for the record I've never threatened them with a plunger.
But they do respect the hot curling iron...