Striking arts that go full contact and the MMA community

[Stranger]

Sanda, MT, and boxing have all gained the respect of the MMA community for being effective. The rationale is that practitioners of these arts train full contact against resisting opponents.

How come savate has never caught on in the MMA community?

[MightyB]

Because it's French... :D

[Merryprankster]

It also looks gay. :D

[Suntzu]

could U take those outfits seriously….

[Stranger]

Has anybody ever worked out with somebody that had a savate background? Were they any good?

If savate is "inferior" to Sanda, MT, and boxing, why do we not see a practitioner of one of these styles go over to Europe and rule over the savate community?

Why would the full-contact/resisting opponent crucible not produce viable fighting techniques in savate's case?

[Merryprankster]

To be honest, you just don't see much of it here in the U.S. Not many people know much about it. I don't know anything about their ranking system or the rules of a bout or anything.

The only Savate school I've even heard of is in Louisiana somewhere.

If they are doing full contact fighting, I'm sure they aren't bad.

But also because it's french, looks gay, and the outfits are even gayer looking.

[carly]

Like a lot of martial arts, it has different branches.
Check out the very good classic french film Jules and Jim for some historic black and white footage of a traditional gentlemen's sacate gym in Paris - a scene takes place there againsta backdrop of savate cane fighting and so on.
Today, many o the more genteel french look down on martial artists as a whole and sniff at savate. I asked a French friend about it, and he said *sniff* "Well, perhaps its popular in the SUBURBS."
There is supposed to be a wrestling combat savate, but I haven't seen it taught anywhere.
There is savate full contact kickboxing in France, and it is very rough,right up there with Thai, etc, and the standard is high.
I saw a class taught by a working cop, an he knew how to fight, and had some good moves - they really know how to kick, and a few of their moves are tricky and cantake you by surprise. His students weren't training full contact however.
And yes, it does look pretty elegant and gay - classical savate was influenced by ballet training.
Fianlly, fo those who think the french can't fight, the worst, most vicious and savage and brutal fight I have ever seen in either real life or on film occurred in Paris. At least one of the 6 people street fighting knew savate - it was disgusting to witness, and even though 20 years has gone by since it happened, I'll never forget it.

[Stranger]

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~eynard/Savatehistoricalpage.htm

has some old photographs and drawings.

[Kristoffer]

How opend minded MP :rolleyes:

[red5angel]

I have to agree with MP and MightyB here.... ;)


Actually I never really knew what Savate was until I got on this forum.

[Suntzu]

:D :D full contact ballet :D :D

[Merryprankster]

Kristoffer--

Sarcasm not big in sweden, I take it?

[Crimson Phoenix]

get in the ring with me, you buncha Mofo's LOLOL

Seriously, Carly's right on the money.

C. Diabate, french thai boxing champ (he's into free fight now, and rising) practiced savate in his youth, and despite his training in MT and free fight still places it in his top three list of hardest "styles". Just because we box with shoes on changes the deal greatly when it comes to kicking method and fighting distance...the guy knows what he's talking about, he defeated Rick Roufus...

Nevertheless, savate is looked down on these days...

There is a wrestling savate method, actually real old school savate included head butts, knee and elbow strikes, take downs and nasty kicks like "the tongue cutter" (a kick that some people were famous for, and with which you'd make the opponent cut his tongue with his own teeth). Most of it is forgotten by the public nowadays, who only sees the boxing part, but some still train all the savate repertory.
Savate also has a very well known cane method, and a mostly forgotten stick method inherited from the companions who would always carry a stick when travelling...

Good savate is ruthless, brutal, and most of all very vicious (one of the most vicious boxing I have seen). This owes in part to some special kicks or kicking strategies (chambering for example). The upper body methods are, at least nowadays, "regular" english boxing.

I do not think savate owes much to ballet, except for some parts of training, as it is true that old school savate teachers like the one I had would make us train like dancers, in a dancing room with the bars, mirrors and leg play...but that's about it, on the ring he was a vicious cat...

It does look very elegant...some kicking methods might actually look gay, but they really aren't...

I have to admit, though, that the outfits are just plain un-manly LOL

Check some vids from S. Assli, he is a talented technician...

Carly, thanks for the very good sum up!

[DragonzRage]

"To be honest, you just don't see much of it here in the U.S. Not many people know much about it."

I think MP pretty much nailed it. I'm sure that a skilled savate guy crosstrained for MMA would be a competent fighter. But the thing is, savate hasn't had much exposure to MMA. In the MMA hotbeds of the world (U.S.A., Japan, Brazil) savate simply isn't very widely practiced. But actually there was a savate champ who competed in the World Combat Championship which was one of the early MMA events. He did poorly tho, getting knocked out by boxer James Warring. To the savate guy's defense, he was significantly outweighed. Gerard Gordeau was also billed as savate in the original UFC, but he was really more Kyokushin/thai.

There are a couple weaknesses that savate has for an MMA environment tho. First off they are very dependent upon their kicking skills, and IMO savate kicks don't transfer well to MMA. They are very precise kicks that deliver sharp, whip-like damage. Altho that type of pin point accuracy and finesse could come in handy in a street fight, I don't think its well suited for MMA. The blunt KO power of thai kicks applies better in an MMA setting. Also, competitive savate is just kicking and punching, which limits its usefulness in MMA. Muay Thai is well rounded enough with its clinch techniques and knee attacks. But if you're gonna throw a lot of kicks without knowing close range clinch tactics, you'll be in a lot of trouble in MMA.

[rogue]

and they giggle in the clinch.

[carly]

Yes, some of those chamber high and then kick very low to the ankle moves are excellent.
And you're right - it can be a very rough and vicious art.

[Former castleva]

I have the idea that the amount of savate around is not great.
Besides,it is a kicking art.
:)

[Crimson Phoenix]

Carly, yes, this method of chambering enabeling you to chose where to aim from a single position, combined with the possibilities of stepping/jumping while chambering makes it very very tough to approach someone who plays this game well...a real b@tch to fight against these guys!!

Even though I have been involved in CMA for more than five years now, I have practiced savate for four years, and whenever I have the time (ie: too seldom LOL), I put my gloves back on and jump in the ring with great pleasure...and no, I am NOT wearing the silly outfit LOL

Anyway, Carly, you seem to know a great deal about savate...did/do you practice it? There must be a reason why it caught your attention one day ;)