molum_jr & William Fong

[cha kuen]

You mentioned somewhere that you trained with William Fong before? May I ask how long you trained for? Did you like the class? Why did you leave?

I'm just curious. I know William Fong as well and I think he's a good sifu who focuses more on the principles than hand forms. Thank you.

[molum_jr]

I learnt under William Fong at the Clement St. studio. Studio since the practise area was formely a bar converted to a martial arts studio. Adjacent to us was the aikido dojo, which ended as we started class.

It was amusing to see soooo many pharmacists as fellow students. I fondly remember William every time I think of the chinna technique on the point in the web area between the thumb and index finger. I thought it was cool to see Albert/Alfred (a senior WJM student) run up the walls. I was warned that he could hit one in the temple while talking to you w/his foot before the conversation/sentence was finished. At that time, I saw so many oldtimers whose skills they kept private. All these guys were family men at that time. William mainly taught chinna techniques. Forms were 7-Star Bung Po, Tai Jo Kuen, and Spear Hands. Only Albert knew TCPM forms...

Simmey(?), the young afro american gentleman, was learning dbl-headed spear. Douglas (Mr. Dentist)was learning sword. Another student was using the pillar as a wooden dummy. One of the students was a SF cop. Raymond Wong dropped by occassionally and he always carried a dragon sword in his hand. I cannot recall who was it that always carried a sharpened sword though. Albert generally leading class as William spent more time w/his wife. I recall the time a Vietnamese/Chinese(?) sihing of William dropped by to show him the Tai Chi Form. Then, sniff..., the studio closed down because the owner decided to lease to an aerobic studio.

I never had time to go to the Fort Mason classes due to time and transportation problems. I was never a good student, but I opened my eyes and ears and just absorbed as much as possible.

From what I hear that Williams, when he has time drops by to see the small, small class; talks w/Albert and then splits.

[molum_jr]

I never asked William about his Hung Kuen lineage under Wong, Fei-Hung's wife. I don't know what he knows under that lineage. He never seem to bring up the subject and no one cared. The sihings appreciated his skills - very real.

I do know his passion and love for his TCPM. His stories about his sifu were told before we left for the nite. He had students do what little forms we knew in a group setting and individually. He would critique us and was NEVER harsh in his opinions - more like a coach trying to improve our skills. What little TCPM was in his chinna teachings: I would never refuse being his chinna subject because it felt like a massage and bone/joint setting time (ouch...I like that...give me more pain...heh, heh).

The one thing I hated was the walking frog squats... Even though he won't remember a jr., jr. student like me (a blip in this lifetime), I admire his attitude towards life and CMA. If I was in better condition (healthwise) I wouldn't heisitate to return. Of all the mantis sifus that I am acquainted with, only he and James Sun have the knowledge that is one step above everyone else... ****! I think I'm in a midlife crisis!

[cha kuen]

Are you talking about the Raymond Wong that used to train with WJM? I heard that his weapon skills were pretty good. Did you ever meet Paul Eng when he was at WJM's school also? He and William Fong meet once in a while to discuss TCPM. I have seen William Fong's horsestance and it looks very strong from his Hung Gar training. Albert? I think Arthur takes over Fong's class today.

[cha kuen]

Also , have you seen Peter Kwong's mantis? I heard that he's really good. (lots of ging) He's Brenden Lai's si heng.

[molum_jr]

This Raymond Wong was the son of YC Wong (Hung Gar kwoon) on Sacramento St. Albert/Arthur...is also a pharmacist w/two or three daughters? That guy is always smiling or in an extremely good mood. Even in those days, they must have taken in $50K+/year with OT. It was funny to hear William talk w/the other pharmacists/TCPM students about OT.

I've heard of Peter Kwong, but nothing beyond that. It was the generation before me that seem aquainted w/his reputation. By the late seventies Paul Eng was just a sifu among other sifus making a living in the bayarea. He was outside of the City and that was that. No rumors, no reputation (good or bad)...just a sifu teaching out there in the suburbs. People were telling me that Brendan Lai was technically a lower ranking WHF student who had skill, but had a limited knowledge of forms. I've talked to Brendan when he stopped teaching after moving to the Mission St. store. As far as teaching, "He needed at least a thousand students just to make a profit."

For some strange reason, 7 * PM was in a lull or dormant for a decade in the bayarea. Wing Chun seem to be more popular due to Bruce Lee. Northern Sil Lum and Mantis were unfairly deemed "classical mess." Now you have a revival of every type of mantis. It seem strange that William and Arthur hasn't made a bigger splash and promote TCPM in the bayarea. The older sihing of William who has passed away? was teaching in the park. Arthur was learning from him for a while. The older sihing taught a lot a TCPM: tai chi, fan, saber to the public for free.

[molum_jr]

I don't know why I cannot edit my previous postings, but in continuation of spreading TCPM in the bayarea discussion.

I recall hearing William doing a charitable demo at Golden Gate University, SF for an incident that happened in China years ago. I assumed that maybe Buckey Wing, a math teacher at that university, got him to participate. After that, nothing...something about spending more quality time w/the wife. Not a lot of students learning was the last I heard from a fellow TCPM classmate. I do recall that William was very, very selective about who he would teach and what he would teach. With the magazine, New China Martial Arts Heroes, publishing many of CCK's curriculum; we knew what TCPM had...but William would often defer what he would or could teach. Has he shown TCPM's version of Bung Bo yet?

[cha kuen]

Arthur still trains TCPM with that sifu in the park on sunday mornings. I didn't know that he passed away?? I talked to Arthur about this maybe 3 months ago. I'm sure William knows TCPM's version of Bong Bo. When did the magazine " New china martial Arts Heros" come out ? Do you have a copy of it? So William Fong didn't learn all the taimantis from CCK? I don't know about the Golden Gate University thing but Arthur and a few others from WJM's school participate in the annual tai chi demonstraion in a park. They do their tai chi, shaolin, hsing yi and weapons. William leaves the responsibility of his school to Arthur and a few others. He does come to the annual CCK banquet. He also visits Eng's school once in a while. He's pretty much a retired sifu. Arthur is more of san francisco Taimantis' rep. He comes to any meetings we have. Look for more Tai Mantis to be promoted in the Bay Area within the next couple years.

[molum_jr]

I heard that a senior TCPM passed away more several years ago, so I must have confused Arthur's teacher w/another TCPM elder. I am surprised that William has chosen to semi-retire?
After all, he is in his prime and still quite young. Does this mean everything goes down hill after marriage? Heh, heh...

I hope to hear more noise from the TCPM clan in the future. Of all the mantis clans, the TCPM members seem to get quite alone w/each other.

[molum_jr]

New Martial Arts Heroes magazine was a HK publication publishes from the sixties to the late seventies. Many of the articles have just now been recently translated to English. An example is Dan Miller's defunce Pak Kua Journal. Many articles were first published in NMAH.

CCK had written many articles and uniquely were sets upon sets of TCPM forms. No one has the complete series, but what I've seen were quite good. It is said that there are still magazine shops in HK that carry them in their dust bins.

Arthur has a bunch of xerox copies in his own personal collection. Some of them were accurate enough when I compared them to some of Galen Fok's TCPM weaponry videos sold thru Al Cheng (7* sifu of John Funk) of Canada. This is over a decade ago though.

[cha kuen]

William Fong said he's too busy with marriage and 2 kids to teach much. Thanks for the information molum_jr. Watch out for taimantis in the bay area!

[mantis108]

HI Molum_jr and Cha Kuen,

Wonderful info. on the Bay area scene. Just like to mention a couple of things. I have some if not all of The New Martial Heroes mag. articles on TCPM. They were provided by a wonderful friend, Eric Ishii. It featured Sifu Kwong Kwan Wai, Sifu Tze (spelling?) Wing Ming, Sifu Tang Shing Ling, etc... I have meet them on couple of occassions at Sigungs Kwoon while I was in HK. Those article were done in the 70s and were quite detailed. I think some of the photos were shot at the Kwoon. Anyway, Just like to say great going guys and looking forward to a strong showing of TCPM in the future. Thanks for the posting.

Mantis108
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Contraria Sunt Complementa

[darkie71]

Hey there, caught you on tibetan MA forum and had a couple of questions regarding White Crane history in bay area. Since you seem to have somewhat intimate knowledge of what may have happened during 70's and/or 80's, I would really like to speak to you. My sihing also used to be on SF wushu team under Bryant Fong during early 80's. During this time, Philip Wong, Michael Tom, Ken (oops, forgot his last name: Lopez?! anyway, he's hispanic,) were his team mates. A beijing team member named Maggie was coaching the team at this time. Molum jr., are you a student of Bryant Fong? Please,... if you don't mind,..could you e-mail me @ darkie71@hotmail.com. Thanks,.. and sorry for the intrusion onto this PM forum.

[theghola]

It's a bit weird to see my sifu's name being spoken on a public message board. (other than by myself, hehe) =P And that "just a sifu among other sifus" thing...from what I keep hearing (and this is not just from my sihings in class), he is supposedly one of the best sifus not just in the US but in the world... It's really strange because he always keeps a low profile and he is always very humble. Anyway, I just think it's nice that some people in the CMA community are still giving my sifu "props," heh.

[cha kuen]

I agree that our sifu is very good. I would not go as far to say that he is one of the best in the world though. I wouldn't say that about any sifu. I believe that there are many more great underground sifus here in the States as well as around the world.

[theghola]

You know, you may be right there. Obviously there are better ones out there (hence, I did not say "THE ABSOLUTE BEST GRANDMASTER!" like certain Bruce Lee fans, heh). And I guess it also depends on the definition of "one of the best" being used as well... If I said "one of the best" meaning somewhere in the top 1000, would you agree? It would be markedly different from, say, the top 10. =P I do see what you're implying, though. So maybe the fact that I really admire the man is clouding my better judgement. So sue me. =)