Re: Tibetan Martial Arts Worldwide Network

[friday]

Hi all Tibetan Martial Artists. As some of you may know already, I am just trying to start up a network of contacts of all Tibetan Martial Artists. Whether you are Hop Gar, Pak Hok, Lama Kung Fu, Lion's Roar, etc. As long as your martial arts is originating from Tibetan Martial Arts or have been derived from it pls contact me and send me your email details or whatever you feel comfortable with. Just tell me your lineage and your name and email address, and your location.
What I am hoping is that this will be a start to a stronger and more friendly environment between tibetan martial artists and the beginning of what will one day be a world wide network of contacts where the spread of tibetan kung fu etc, its development, competition, histories etc can be discussed, organised, etc.
So if you are interested send me your details or post them on this forum. Thanks.
Here is my email address:
tibetanma@hotmail.com

thanks, :)

888

[friday]

Great, the list of contacts for our world wide network of friendly, tibetan ma has begun :).

888

[HopGar]

Im just gonna go as Kong for right now.

Im in Atlanta, GA

I sent you my lineage.

Zvika

"He's not dead, 'es resting! Well if 'e's resting, I'll wake him up! 'Ello Mr. Polly Parrot...." -Monty Python, Dead Parrot Sketch

[friday]

hi all,

just an update. I now have about 4-5 contacts in this network so far.

I will be typing them up on an excel spreadsheet soon.

:)

888

[friday]

Hi everyone
sorry for my lack of efforts in respect of this network. to be perfectly honest i was initially disappointed with the lack of response (no offense to those of you who did respond - thanks for that) and didn't think it was worth putting any more work into.
in addition due to recent personal problems this has appeared to be a very low priority matter for me.
However, having recently thought about it, I have decided that I shouldn't let something like this stop me from starting what could one day be a great network for we tibetan martial artists. As they say a long journey begins with the first step.
so in the next few days will be our first step. only something simple - i will email the ppl who have responded to me in good faith the contacts at various locations around the world who practice tibetan martial arts and want to participate. If you do not wish to be included pls let me know.
in the near future there will not be any scheduled events etc as you can all understand why.

anyway thats it for now
as for those of you who have exprtessed concern about my welfare etc thank you and pls bear with me as my life has been going downhill over the last year. As for my personal health and ability to train i m happy to say that my doctor believes i should be able to begin training again at the end of january.

to all of my friends on ezine.kungfumagazine.com
cheers (gan bei) !!!
good health and fortune to u all (and to me too ;)

Friday

[HopGar]

well get better.

[wangsizhong]

speaking of tibetan martial arts, where can i find a good resource to research them. i'll be in tibet at the end of january for six months and was wondering what would be available there...

Wang Si Zhong

[friday]

Hi Wang,

when i initially posted this thread i received an email from an individual who belonged to an humanitarian organisation that focused on tibetan arts and martial arts. I have just sent an email asking him whether it would be ok if i posted the website on KFO.
I will let you know of the outcome and hope that the website or the individuals email will provide you with a source of information.

your input after your visit will also be very interesting. my initial view would be that tibetan ma aren't practiced openly due to political circumstances.

regards

[friday]

Hi everyone

anyway just an update ive done a very simplistic spreadsheet with the barest of details. its a start however, so have a look and tell me what u would like to do with it.

regards,

Friday

[friday]

btw i have emailed it to your email addresses

[friday]

btw has anyone heard anything from Gumgong?
his email addresss doesn't seem to work anymore :(

[Gum Gong]

Hey Friday,
still here.

[Gum Gong]

jomomoor@swbell.net

[friday]

hi wangsizhong

check your private messages in KFO, i have sent you the contact's email address there.
hope it is of help and keep in touch,

regards,

Friday

[friday]

hi Gum Gong,

hven't seen u for ages, how are u doing?
sent u an email at the correct email address this time

regards,

friday

[Ka]

Of the topic abit ,But have you guys ever heard of a Tung La Ba Gua Zhang(I am not sure if the BGZ bit is usually included)Any infor on that one? :confused:

[friday]

not sure ...is that that studio in chinatown where u gotta walk up heaps of flights of stairs?

[friday]

oh wait that can't be right,
the one i m talking about is the yin/yang Ba Gua Zhang on goulburn st

[Ka]

Hey Friday you must be a Sydney Boy,no its not Xie Shoude(up the stairs)Wondering if you had met a gent called Con who trains in Belmore Pk on Sundays.He told me he knows a Tibtean form of BGZ called Tung La,was wondering if you guys had any infor on it. :) Also would be interested to have a chat about MA in Sydney.Where what when how etc? :D

[friday]

hey Ka,

yes thats right I am a Sydney person. Sorry I have no idea who that guy in the park is. in relation to tibetan ma most of the ppl i know practice the tibetan kung fu originating from the Lion's Roar. Of course tibetan martial arts wouldn't be limited to this style, however, my knowledge of other tibetan ma is very very limited.

when the time is right sure i would be happy to meet another kung fu enthusiast for a chat. :)

i would also luv to hear anything u might find out about this tibetan baguazhang

regards,

[Ka]

good value,Yep I will try to get to know Conn as he seems to know his stuff(He teaches Ystlye TJQ,XYQ and BGZ) and I will try to pick his brain,but I don't really want to train(read spend my money,he's a bit expensive)with him.He has made some petty heady claims which I won't go into here.I practise a different stlye of BGZ and am now into Yiquan with a PRC guy that I meet at Uni.I sometimes train with a friend who does Pak Mei and I am very interested in this stlye .I guess thats my only conection with SMA. Anyway thanks for the Chat,I will keep in touch :cool:

[friday]

btw who is this conn guy? how old is he? around 35-40?
how mmuch does he charge? hmmm...

[Leonidas]

Since all you guys do Tibetan MA, do you know if David A. Ross is a qualified Lama Pai teacher. He teaches at NYKK but it seems more like a Kickboxer, MMA's school. Information will be appreciated. Thanx.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Ka]

Sorry some of my posts are a bit lost,conn is the gent in Belmore park who told me that he trains this Tung La that is a Tibetan form of BGZ.I think he trains there reguraly on Sundays after 11am.

[friday]

hey Leonadis

David Ross should be reliable ( my personal conclusion), i do not know him personally but here are the notable facts:

he is one of a few 'bai see' students of Master Chan Tai San.

my sigong who is a wellknown white crane kung fu master (also from the original tibetan ma Lion's Roar) knows Master Chan Tai San.

David Ross has written some very interesting material online in respect of lama kung fu. One of which provides some background on Master Chan Tai San.

it would definitely be worth going to their gwoon for a trial lesson.

[Leonidas]

If your sifu knows his sifu thats good enough for me. i just wanted to know if he comprehended what he was taught since even he admitted that Chan Sai Tan's lesson's were confusing. I have much respect for Tibetan MA. I think it's just as good as anything else out there. I plan to check out his school unless you know someone else who's teaching in NYC as well. About that Tibetan Martial Arts Worldwide Net, are you planning on starting a website for it. That would be really cool. I would personally like to get more info on TMA. I know everyone else would.

[lkfmdc]

There are tons of people who know more than David A Ross, just ask around NYC and you'll find them. So don't worry, you shouldn't be bothered with NYKK or their program, have a nice day

[Leonidas]

Here was my intitial problem. Read how Chan Tai San conducted his classes. I'm sure he was knowledgable but it's seems half-a$$ed. Now this is David Ross' own words:

"However, the school remained rather small for a number of reasons. First, Chan Tai-San only spoke Cantonese dialect and had trouble communicating with his American students. Second, he was no longer a young man and disliked having to demonstrate the more difficult techniques. Often, if a student could not perform a technique correctly or did not know what a technique was, it was simply removed from their form. Third and most importantly, the training was unlike anything students of commercial kung-fu schools had ever seen.

Since Chan Tai-San lived in the association hall, there was no set class time. Students could come and leave when they wanted and were expected to practice on their own. There were no warm ups, no two man drills, and no sparring exercises. The only two methods of training were basics and forms practice".

[Leonidas]

Oh yea, I forgot to ask. What weapons are taught in Tibetan MA. Thanks :D.........

[Gum Gong]

Anyone want to chat in the chatroomI'll be in there for 20 min.

[diego]

i thought you were sifu ross
wtf:confused:

[friday]

hi Leonadis,

just a correction to your statement, it was my sigong (my sifu's sifu) that knows Master Chan Tai San. I believe Master Chan Tai San is 70-80 yrs old now. It appears he is a very well regarded kung fu master.

I understand where your doubts might come from in respect of language difficulties etc. it is also true that the lama pai kung fu that is being taught at the NY studio is one that has been modified etc and likely incorporates other styles techniques as well (this is merely my conclusion from reading David's articles) but then the Pak Hok Pai i am learning is different from the original lion's roar too. I have a lot of respect for Master CHan Tai San's students for having to learn in such difficult circumstances and putting in the effort to put the whole style together into a systematic fighting art. Ultimately, it comes down to a decision whether their interpretation is one that u are happy with.

In NY I believe there is a white crane sifu who teaches pak hok pai. I would not go into any debates into which style etc is better or more accurate as i have not had the pleasure to see the kung fu of either, even if i have lol i am certainly not in any position to judge.

as for a website, the network is still at a beginning stage. i don't believe anything like that will occur for half a year or so.

to lkfmdc:

Hi David (may I address u by your first name?), I hope the comments made on this thread have not offended you. i think leonadis is just checking to make sure he will be committing to something that is worthwhile, his questions are valid you must admit.
i do not doubt your knowledge of lama kung fu, this is a forum after all and a place to discuss issues or questions we might have.
you are welcome to answer his queries as to how you handled the difficulties u encountered.\

regards,

[diego]

you wrote you studied three styles starting at 6,
what are the other two
and YOU HAVE TO ADMIT
a legit old school bagua from tibet would be kick ass

to me hop gar is karate
i cant wait to get through it
so i can seek out sun lu tang arts'some reason i really want to learn his style???

you have enough room for that book or what,im waiting its on you
i have filled 1 and half emial sites of 4mb caliber so give me prolly two addresses and its striaght

[friday]

sorry leonadis i forgot your question about weapons.
I cannot speak for lama pai or hop gar etc. but in terms of pak hok pai - look up for a thread "bak hok pai"

there should be some info that might interest u there.
i have also spoken about weapons
if u like weapons i don't think u will be disappointed lol
ok here is a quick summary
they include things like

twin butterfly knives
single short bladed knife (these are quite small)
dan do (chinese knife single saber)
double knifes (sabers)
short stick
long stick (single head stick - that is one side's head is bigger than the other)
long stick (seung tou gwun - double headed stick each side of equal size)
kwan do
monk's staff (one side has the cresent etc)
another one monks staff that looks like the one in the movies i dont know the name ummm sort of like a big ball on one side)
7 jit bin and 9 jit bin (7 section and 9 section whip)
three section staff
nunchaku
spear
hook swords
chinese gim (sword)
there are different types of spears and halberds
my sifu in hk also has a club that one of the chinese generals in the time of the three kingdons used (not the same one of course :) just same type)

that club is so heavy, i had to lift it with two hands
my sifu tells me that club is very old. anyway hope this answers your questions

regards,

friday

[Leonidas]

Thanx for the help friday. I didn't mean to offend Mr Ross. i just hopes he understands my weariness of McKwoons, since Kung Fu is a lifelong endeavor and i'm really not the type to go from style to style in only a few years times. I plan to stick to whatever i choose. Again i'm sorry for questioning your skill.

[Ka]

Hey I found out alittle more about this stlye,Tung La means Wind Horse,it appraently came from a tribe called the Num Chuk a normadic Tibetian Tribe.It is closely related to a religon called Dur Bon and encompasses shamaistic rituals including yoga and circle walking.Can anyone verify or have any knowledge about any of these terms?
Thanks

[HopGar]

I'm sorry to be silly here, but NUM CHUK? That sounds like nunchucks. Lol. Seriously though, I dunno anything about yhis.

[friday]

ummm u know hopgar its just the two section nunchuku ( i m definitly spelling it incorrectly)
that bruce lee sort of made famous.

what do u mean u don't know any of this?

[friday]

ohhhh waiitttt sorry hopgar
now i see what u are referring to :)

[RonKortland]

To add to the discussion about the Tibetan Bagua system - it is called Lungta and it is a Bonpo system taught originally by Urgen Gnam Chak (meaning sky-metal which is the name of the nomadic clan). Lungta develops the Dmu chord or skychord – your connection to the cosmos and the universal life force, the connection of man’s consciousness to supreme consciousness.
(NB - for more info on this see the writings of Mercia Eliade).

Lungta is translated as Windhorse which means a persons life force, energy & spirit. If you want to know more contact me directly as I know of some practitioners who do not teach publically (one of who was Con's Lungta teacher).

RK

[diego]

while waiting for your profile to open i was thinking maybe you may have knowledge on the history of kf in tibet,then i linked your homepage,I THINK I WILL BE PERUSING YOUR SITE FOR QUITE A WHILE
THANKS
EVEN THO I DIDNT ASK,HEHE

[Ka]

Thanks for the information and your website is excellent.I take it you know Con from London,He' over in Aus now teaching.I would like to ask a bit about his background as he's a bit secertive about it.I must say he can communicate the mechcanics of IMA better then any one else I have met over here.Trying to find some infor before I commit to him.
Thanks

[friday]

Thanks Ron for your information,
sounds like that gentleman named Con is worth talking to.
btw are u the Ron that I talk to thru emails?

thanks

friday

[friday]

hey ka u want to meet up
and take me to see this Con gentleman?

thanks,

Friday

[friday]

Hi Ron,

Would you be able to tell me where i could find some books on tibetanma anywhere stuff on the cosmos etc would also be fascinting too

thanks

friday
haha all this new stuff is making this very interesting

[HopGar]

This is really interesting. Anyone got site about this one?

[RonKortland]

friday -
I'm the same guy you emailed (it was your email about Tibetan ma than brought me to this forum).
In terms of books on Tibetan ma, well there's a challenge!

1. Most indigenous Tibetan martial arts do not really consider themselves a "martial art" in the general way (the martial aspects are derived from methods to develop base level awareness and go beyond a fear based mindset)
2. The Tibetan martial arts are still held as "cultural treasures" and as such most teachers & practitioners are not willing to teach, explain or even discuss them. Its probably equivalent to where Bagua & Hsing-yi were 100 years ago in the west.
3. A number of the Tibetan systems were taught as part of an intense long-term religious/philosophic curriculum inside the monasteries, and to gain access you need to be initiated into that religious order and progress through the preliminary training long before you see the martial aspects.

The only crumbs of information you will be able to find currently are background material (I’ve already mentioned the works of Mercia Eliade - see her book "Shamanism" for Dur Bon related info). As well as that you will find a little information out there on Kum-Nye which is the equivalent of Chinese Chi-gung. Otherwise the only print material is limited to private publications for initiates in a particular system.

The only thing I can really say about authentic Tibetan martial arts is that they are very difficult to find but well worth the search.

RK

[friday]

hey Ron,

a heartfelt thanks for your contribution to this thread from all of us, your information is a refreshing read from what we normally read on the KFO Forum.

like you said information about tibetan arts is rare to find and worth the search.

:)

Friday

[Ka]

Happy to meet up,Here's what I know,Belmore Pk 11am to 1 every Sunday.Ultimo Community Centre every Monday 6pm till 8.I won't be there tomorrow,but Conn is always happy to chat.:)

[friday]

hey ka u wanna go this sunday?

[Ka]

Sorry:( Tomorrow Am leaving for a bit of a break in QLD(thats were I am from)driving up the Coast road.Will be back on the 31st.Feel free to email(its in the location box) and we can meet up soon.Could also get together with Jon so you can check out William Ho.Con is always near the bandstand and happy to chat,easy to recognize as the group is usually doing rolling hand partner work.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Must be a boring tibetian world wide forum. There's nothing more than the 8 basic punches whether you're doing pak hok, tibet or lama.

No wonder why this thread has come to a stand still.

[friday]

been here, done this before, and sigh...ego do we have to go thru this again? if you dont have anything constructive to add pls leave this thread alone.

[HopGar]

You aghn?!!! (Smashes the god**** trolls head with a kaap choi then with a staff) Get the hell off of this thread now! Why, I repeat, Why the f u c k do you always come and riun perfectly fine threads!!!?!?@?@ Go away you piece of ****! W

[HopGar]

You aghn?!!! (Smashes the god**** trolls head with a kaap choi then with a staff) Get the hell off of this thread now! Why, I repeat, Why the f u c k do you always come and riun perfectly fine threads!!!?!?@?@ Go away you piece of ****! We don't want to hear your c r a p anymore PLEASE GO AWAY AND BOTHER SOMEONE ELSE! YOU WERE NOT INVITED NOW GO AWAY! HOW MANY TIMES MUST I SAY IT D U M B A S S????!

[HopGar]

sorry to crash the party guys, I just reported this thread becuase of ego's harasing remarks. We need to start our own forum somewhere were ego can not get to it or something.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Khong,

I was responding to your previous remarks that I had ignored you. Don't get mad, doctors might lock you away.

Friday, can you please include me on the pak hok mailing list?

[friday]

Ego, if i thought u actually had any genuine intentions that corresponded to the reasons why i set this up i would have been happy to include u. you hate pak hok pai so much, i don't think adding u to the mailing list would be a good idea.

originally in the previous pak hok pai thread, although some of your comments were awful to say the least i was quite happy that we were able to meet somewhere in the middle and were able to end the discussion on relatively good terms.

i do not wish to engage in another debate over pak hok pai. i have nothing to justify to u. this network is for tibetan kung fu practitioners. if u have constructive things to say do so...if u wish to persist in this manner...i will have nothing further to say to u...and for what its worth u lose what respect i had for u from b4.

regards,

[HopGar]

Look man, we've had this arguement ONE TOO MANY TIMES and its getting annoying. Why must you always come and ruin every thread with some reference to Lama Pai/Hop Gar/Pak Hok Pai or southern kung fu? Is it stupidity or just a lack of a brain or something?

[friday]

Hop Gar,

:) lets not get into this again, by speaking to him like that you are inviting him into another episode. lets just leave it at that. put him on ignore if u wish but i know i won't be responding to any of his rudeness again. i think its a better response to his issues. besides i have all of you as contacts outside kfo its no big deal if this thread goes under :)

[HopGar]

sounds like an idea, im only doing this if we all do it

[Steven T. Richards]

If you fellows are serious about this you should satrt your own forum like the SPM people have (I'm admin of that). No trolls, no politics, just a positive agenda with a constitutionally agreed format, aims and objectives, run privately with senior members of the Pai's involved.

If you can do that then you will have achieved something. Public forums are good for making contacts but all too often they get polluted and corrupted by idiots and wannabes.

Over to you...

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

If you start your own forum, you can basically administer it however you like. Have special security sign ons even, such that only active memebers of the pai can subscribe.

This will maintain the close door philosophy of the styles, which as I have said many times, has its pros and cons.

[HopGar]

So what do y'all think? go with it or not. Ego, thats a given and that did not have to be said.

[friday]

hop gar u are referring to setting up a private forum?

ummm...I am probably the worse in terms of IT related things. I would be happy to be involved in something like that if i can get some help.

Ego,
of course there are pros and cons just like there are pros and cons when ppl post messages on a public forum such as KFO. I have only experienced the public type of forum where anybody can say what they like. Even if we have a more 'closed' forum doesn't mean we won't be invovled in public forums such as KFO. I think the one that we set up will be a more targeted forum dealing with the goals of a smaller group of tibetan ma practitioners.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Friday,

Of course no one's stopping you to engage in publc forums like this one. If you're thinking of having a closed forum with a few people where the topic is only pak hok, why not just cc. each other on email. It's a small goup of people anyway and on your summer break you could say hang out in person and share a pop soda or two.

[friday]

hi everyone at kfo, and especially my contacts on lama ma. i have put kevin (ego) on my ignore list. just to let u all know :)

btw anyone know how to set up a private forum that can't be interfered with by trolls and the like? it would be good.

now i can post messages on this thread without worrying about reading the useless posts left behind by trolls. phew :)

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Friday,

I'm not kevin. So I take it we're not meeting up for pop soda on friday.

[diego]

im thinking get the deluxe lot, with the 250mb of picture space, with a sliding forum:confused: :p
gonna go back to bed first, if your bored today check out angelfire type sites there always giving free webspace, bravenet and ezboard also, regardless, ill have it analyzed by tonight, still going to make my personnal sight, so if you guys in the mood to get a clubhouse pumpn, maybe we can mix the two??.

[friday]

thanks diego i will check it out tonite
all that stuff u were mentioning the 'deluxe' thingy...ummm...how much would that cost?

btw i will be popping down to check out the tibetan baguazhang this sunday unless something important pops up and will post what i see :)

[HopGar]

Diego - nice. Go for it, I'm with ya on this one.

Friday -Yeah, please post what ya see becuase that sounds quite cool.

[diego]

im looking for loopholes, maybe i can link the forum to another space??..

[diego]

on your teachers sight/course section it says this is a specialty of harry , have you seen this set yet, i have a staff and broadsword on tape im sure there hopgar, dont know if its the official crazy ming one tho, so have you seen,
regardless il type up the details on the set,in your e..


HAS ANY1 HEARD FROM GUMGONG, WE were having a good chat on harry and his triad affiliation and he disapeared havent heard from him since the before last monday, its been a week and a half..odd:confused: maybe the triads gotem:rolleyes: :mad: :p :cool:

[diego]

http://www.lionking.org/~lino/books.htm

[HopGar]

I just finished learning a staff from, diego. Its a cool form, had to do though. Next week I think I'm gonna get the guy who usually comes early and helps me perfect stuff do practical applications.