Where are you in your training?

[cha kuen]

Just thought it would be interesting to see where everyone's at in their wing chun training. Are you gusy working on the dummy? Weapons? The first set?

I'm working on Bil Tse right now and it's pretty tough!:D

[YungChun]

Originally posted by cha kuen
Just thought it would be interesting to see where everyone's at in their wing chun training. Are you gusy working on the dummy? Weapons? The first set?

I'm working on Bil Tse right now and it's pretty tough!:D

That's where I was too when I left off. Have to get back ASAP. BJ is a tough form to get right. Try not to rely on these moves in Chi Sao as they are recovery moves and in Chi-Sao will only help you after you mess up. Try not to mess up to begin with.

[dezhen2001]

im still on siu lim tao and have been for over 2 years now :)

dawood

[YungChun]

Originally posted by dezhen2001
im still on siu lim tao and have been for over 2 years now :)

dawood

How often do you train? That seems a bit long to be on SLT.

Do you do Chi-Sao yet?

If you are doing moving Chi-Sao - then IMO you should really be working Chum-Kiu so have the base of proper footwork to use in the exercise.

[dezhen2001]

currently coz im at uni i get to see my sifu only once a month :(

i have been doing chi sau for over 1 1/2 years lol and also practise basic footwork from chum kiu as well. just not the form yet as i still havent got SLT down properly yet - no big deal.

skill seems to be developing just fine compared to others i have trained with :)

i also do a lot of qigong as well, sometimes more than my wing chun (especially chi sau) because of a lack of partners here at uni.

dawood

[black and blue]

I've also been training for about two years (three times a week + whatever else I can manage with training partners) and I'm practising Chum Kiu.

Practising the second set simply re-affirms the need to go back and do more SNT :D, for me at least.

Been doing Chi Sau for six or seven months, something like that. Struggling to go up a gear/get to the next level. For some reason my footwork has gone to pot recently... something I've always been pretty good at in the past.

[dezhen2001]

keep going buddy u will get there for sure :)

dawood

[Savi]

Hi all,
Currently, I am training the Luk Dim Buhn Gwan (pole), and the Bot Jahm Do (swords/knives) of the Yip Man system. Been training Wing Chun about 5 years now.

The majority of my training involves helping teach my sihingdai at their respective levels from the children's class, adult hei (Chi / Qi) gung and Fa Kuen form (From Chi Sim Weng Chun), to the adult SNT, CK, BJ, and Muk Yan Jong levels, to the pole. In the Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun, still assisting classes in the SNT/SLT level learning. I have been averaging a minimum of 30 hours, 6 days a week of training for the past year... (it takes its toll on ya.) I take an extra day off every now and then.

If you want to, you can check out our class schedule to see what is being trained on what day at www.mengsofaz.com ... I assist and train in the classes from 4:30pm to close daily, and all day Saturday.

"Harmonizing with Reality."
-Savi.

[black and blue]

Savi says:


I have been averaging a minimum of 30 hours, 6 days a week of training for the past year...

I wish I had the time to commit to my Wing Chun in this way... perhaps in the future my schedule will ease off a little.

Out of interest... you say you're learning the pole... how is it taught where you train?

Do you learn the form from start to finish or are each of the motions broken down and taught seperately, with applications?

Can you, or anyone else (Rene R, I'm sure I read somewhere you knew the pole form:)), explain what exercises you do to develop certain attributes for the pole?

I've heard about hitting coins on the floor, tennis balls hung from string etc, anything else going on?

Errr.... maybe I should have started another thread ;)

Thanks

[wingchunalex]

I'm progressing with chi sau. angled footwork. refining bil jee. refining dummy form. practicing making chi sau techniques carry over into sparring, applying the dummy in sparring. learning chi girk.

[Savi]

How you train really depends on the class environment. Are there a lot of students, only you, Sifu and you?

1) If it is just my Sifu and me (one on one), he may show me sections at a time and allow me to drill the sections on my own. Or we will drill the applications (ie. Chi Gwan - sticking pole), one by one discussing the Nim Tao (technical stuff) of each aspect and attributes to accomplish each motion.

2) If there is a group setting, first we will do drills of each technique to build the strength and coordination to properly use the Gwan (pole). The strength building drills (repeating/drilling techniques into reflex) are done independantly (without a partner), but still within a group for encouragement, motivation, and guidance. This step is the prerequisite to Chi Gwan.

3) In group environments there are drills which involve partnering. But that is done after the body mechanics of the movements have been internalized, and some basic details understood before more details are added. At this stage is where the proper energy, space, and timing can be further recognized to understand the techniques and their applications.

For me, learning forms is quite easy and fast. I have a knack for memorizing motion and sequence quickly. But combining the Lin Tao (physical training) and Nim Tao, as with us all (body and mind), is a time consuming process. So far, there are only a couple sihingdai at the Chi Gwan stage. So, the majority of the time in the black sash classes are spent on drilling the techniques (on form and structure) with and without a partner. There is a fairly large group at our kwoon to practice with, and that helps a lot.

-Savi.

[Savi]

Originally posted by black and blue
Been doing Chi Sau for six or seven months, something like that. Struggling to go up a gear/get to the next level. For some reason my footwork has gone to pot recently... something I've always been pretty good at in the past.
Black and Blue, may I ask what lineage you are training? I was wondering what is giving you trouble in your Chi Sau. Where are you at, exactly in your Chi Sau? Training running and catching (Jow Sau/Jip Sau)? Training pushing horse (Tsui Mah)? Single hand strikes? Double hand strikes? I don't know if the quoted Chi Sau/Footwork sentences are supposed to be related. I'd like to know where you feel you are struggling. See if I could offer some help.

Keep training,
-Savi.

[TjD]

almost on my fourth year now. doing yip man system, my sigung is ip ching and my sifu stays as true as he can to his style.

SLT is good, just something that needs to be done every day for the relaxation benefits, elbow energy, knowledge of the center and focus it brings.

refining my chum kiu, need to iron out the last section a bit more.

refining my biu jee, circling steps need work, and my shoulders need more stretching for the cup jarns - but the weather, -10 degrees outside for the last month or two, hasnt been helping my flexibility.

wooden dummy form looking very good. (at least thats what my sifu/classmates say), i have a good idea of where it should be and its almost there. its most likely my best form.

pole form needs work - mostly in terms of more strength.

i've started to learn the knives, however i dont train them as much as i should because i feel i have so much else to focus on before them.

lately my focus on non form related things has been chi gerk, footwork and kicks. i feel like my hands have reached a point where i need a deeper knowledge legwork to keep improving. and my legs need a lot of work :D

once my legs feel like my hands, i think i'll be pretty darn good :D

[black and blue]

Lineage = Yip Chun - Sam Kwok/Steve Mair - Kevin Chan - Me :)

Chi Sau is kept very simple for the likes of me :), rolling whilst stepping and turning, with single and double attacks. At my kwoon we don't place very much emphasis on set attacks in Chi Sau.

From Poon Sau we often work very simple exercises where one defends and one attacks, but the attacking is not set (i.e. the defender doesn't know I'm going to Pak Da etc, it's just his job to defend). More often than not this is done with said stepping and turning, as my Sifu is very keen for us to learn/improve on whole body unity, exploiting varying distances and utilising footwork that takes the center.

Of course, we also play in a more free environment where both people can attack and counter. Different lessons focus on different areas of Chi Sau.

My footwork problem is, I believe, connected to the subtlety of Chi Sau. My Fook Sau positioning will be off in terms of angle if my partner has shifted slightly... I'm making the adjustments just a split second too late and so there's a line of attack for a brief moment.......... the problem is that everyone I train with takes advantage of that 'brief moment'.

Other than that, my training is coming along fine :)

[Savi]

Originally posted by black and blue
My footwork problem is, I believe, connected to the subtlety of Chi Sau. My Fook Sau positioning will be off in terms of angle if my partner has shifted slightly... I'm making the adjustments just a split second too late and so there's a line of attack for a brief moment.......... the problem is that everyone I train with takes advantage of that 'brief moment'.

This is also an area focused on quite extensively at my Sifu's kwoon. That brief moment you speak of, may come from an improper bridge. And if not, may come from too much tension in your elbow(s).

A proper bridge connects your center of gravity to their center of gravity. It is the connection of Yin and Yang.

Any gap between your wrist and their wrist equates to a loss of reaction time; a break in the yin and yang. This must be compensated by creating more space between you and your opponent to buy you more time. As long as you keep either the inside curve of your wrist or the outside edge of your wrist in contact with that same point on their wrist, you should be able to react in a synchronized fashion. This will also allow you to maintain control of your opponent throughout the fight (whether defensive or offensive).

If you find your elbow is too tense, that means the energy/info you read from the bridge is not getting translated into the body and horse because of the blockage in the elbow. Thus causing a lag in response time from the horse. There is a saying "A relaxed elbow senses motion." Elbow tension can lead to many problems in combat.

-OR-

Are you trying to accomplish the footwork response from the brain (in a conscious sense)? If so, then your awareness will not encompass your opponent and you will fall behind in the struggle. The reflex of hand and footwork is stored in the body, not in the mind. Trying to have your brain control and conduct everything in close quarter fighting is near impossible. That's why you are training Chi Sau, so that the body can act on its own, properly trained instincts; its reflexes.

-Savi.

[black and blue]

Thanks... my problem may well be a little of all! :D

Tonight in class I'll make a point to monitor the contact point. I'm not loosing contact, I'm sure of this, but perhaps the point of contact is shifting... I will take a look.

The brain is definetly engaged, but more because I'm thinking of the problem when rolling and stepping, and so perhaps this is why my timing is a little off. Need to clear the mind, perhaps :)

And of course, I suffer from having very high expectations ;) I want to close down everything that comes... have to keep telling myself it's a learning curve... not going to reach the apex on the first go! :) :) :)

But again, thanks for the input.

[Savi]

Some of us mentioned training Biu Jee. I'd like to know what people find is difficult with the Biu Jee level learning. Form? Execution? Application? Some difficulties I've had in the past were primarily focused around rigidity. It was difficult to relax the muscle immediately after the movement was done. That taken care of, now I find it difficult to consistently visualize EVERY single application whilst doing the form. Sometimes my mind thinks about recovering energy instead, and the other times I visualize the applications. Still training though, I know it will come.

The Biu Jee form is a very violent form WRT energy use. I find what helps me is to always be mindful of my center, knowing that the focal point of all techniques come from the center. This also helps me maintain my balance, root, and explosive energy; not through tension but through full release and recoil of the limbs. Another name for Biu Jee is "Standard Compass", always return to center.

As I understand, the Biu Jee level represents full combat application of the human form, and the cummulative of SNT and CK. Biu Jee should have the Siu Nim Tau - as in the proper mindset for the moment at hand as well as in structure (Yin), and the ability to destroy all possible bridges (Chum Kiu) with minimal effort (Yang) through Body Unity.

Also, we know Biu Jee focuses heavily on the attribute of Recovery. Based on some of the posts I have read over the past few months, and sources outside the internet (sihingdai, friends), the overall consensus is that you are training to recover from error. This seems to be a beginner's common understanding. I think Recovery plays a much greater role than that.

Biu Jee can be represented by a circle. The circle symbolizes limitless motion, infinity, the circle of life, and the complete WC combat fighter. When a technique is born, it also must die. But when it dies, it is also reborn as another technique, over and over and over - hence the circle. When your energy is spent, it must be restored for the next technique. When your centerline is overtaken, you must take it back. When your opponent controls the timing, you must control the space. When they control your space, you must control their time. These are all aspects of recovery. Recovery involves the re-establishement of your Time, Space, and Energy in contrast to your opponent, whether from error or not. It is recovering from one moment to the next.

What do you guys think?
-Savi.

[TjD]

personally, at my level at any rate, i think biu jee is really about how the waist generates power in wing chun. there are many subtle movements in the waist area going on in all of its sections, and each one has a slightly different movement based on that common themes recurring in chum kiu and the wooden dummy.

ive been focusing on center/waist and how its used to generate the energy, to give every strike and movement everything i got. like you said (and my sifu says the same thing), biu jee is a fighting form, theres the biu jee mentality - give it everything you have because your life is on the line.

in each section, the stance and waist power the first motion, and each additional motion is powered by the previous in addition the the stance and waist. this ends up in generating a whole lot of power - sometimes more than i can handle. so in addition to working on giving out all my power, and focusing on the waist, i work to make sure i stay fully rooted for maximum power generation throughout the entire form


travis

[TjD]

i like this thread :)

[Savi]

Originally posted by black and blue
Thanks... my problem may well be a little of all! :D

Tonight in class I'll make a point to monitor the contact point. I'm not loosing contact, I'm sure of this, but perhaps the point of contact is shifting... I will take a look.
Black and Blue,
Did you find out the source of your dilemma? Did anything help?

regards,
-Savi.

[black and blue]

Hello Savi -

Well, I kept the point of contact and still found myself slightly too late in movement and subsequently getting palmed. But... I've figured out what's going on! :)

My partner's are rather sneaky :D Their elbow position (in tan sau for example) remains in the same place/correct place when they're stepping and turning, but they're collapsing the forearm towards them slightly. With stepping this is very hard to detect - the impression is that their feet are moving while their hand shapes stay in the same place.

Anyways, it took a while to 'get' the feeling of how this occurs, and when they used this change in structure I used a fairly light lap sau against they tan (the palm of which is moving back and up slightly in order to maximise the hitting gap against me) and with my other hand used lan sau. This pretty much nulified anything they could give, and from that position I switched to palms of my own down the center to see what happens.


Does any of that make sense?