Getting punched in the head

[IronFist]

At my University's MMA club, when we do boxing drills, we wear head cages and boxing gloves, but I get punched in the head a lot because I suck at boxing. The sound it makes reminds me of when I was a hockey goalie getting hit in the mask with a ball/puck. (Hockey rules and I was a rad goalie, btw). Anyway, the other day I leaned back too far to avoid a punch and then the follow up punch hit my head and since I was already leaning back I was off balance and I got knocked on my ass when the second punch came. It kind of sucked, but it was kind of cool because I rolled out of it with mAd ninja skillz.

But the point is, aside from becoming better at blocking and dodging, what drills can one do to make getting hit in the head suck less? My neck is pretty strong, I guess. Or at least it's pretty big. I'm not that big, but I have to wear 16 1/2 -17" neck size dress shirts.

What about that drill where you stand against a wall resting only on the top of your head? Does that strengthen the neck or just make the top of the head more resilient against attacks? My traps are decently strong so I guess they provide some support.

I'm going to a meeting in about 2 hours and I'll probably get punched in the face more. Dude it sucks, the first time I did this dodging drill I was being punched by this guy who's really fast and I couldn't even see his hands coming at me. It was nuts! One moment he's sitting there in a boxing ready position and the next instant his glove is covering my cage and my head is getting knocked back. And we weren't allowed to hit back because it was a dodging drill.

IronFist

[joedoe]

Do they teach you to lean back to avoid the punch, or to duck and weave? I personally prefer duck and weave because leaning back puts you in a pretty vulnerable position.

Otherwise, getting hit in the head always sucks, ya just gotta get used to it :)

[SevenStar]

neck exercises.

http://www.mmaringreport.com/columns/lee_neck.htm

[IronFist]

Originally posted by joedoe
Do they teach you to lean back to avoid the punch, or to duck and weave? I personally prefer duck and weave because leaning back puts you in a pretty vulnerable position.

Otherwise, getting hit in the head always sucks, ya just gotta get used to it :)

They teach us both. But I've only been to two meetings so far and in the beginning I had no idea what I was doing so not only did I not know whether or not to lean back, weave, or duck, but I didn't know how to either.

IronFist

[Serpent]

Frighteningly enough, you just get used to it. I've never decided if that's actually a good thing or not.

I was sparring two weeks ago and got clocked a beauty right in the side of the jaw. I didn't have my gum shield in cos I forgot it (I know, I know!) but anyway, the punch didn't really rock me too badly and I continued sparring. I knew I'd been tagged and I've seen people knocked out from punches like that before, but I really didn't worry about it at all. Was just a big punch, I rode it and carried on.

Anyway, two weeks later and the joint at the top of my jawbone on the right hand side still hurts from where my jaw was cranked by that punch. I thought nothing of it at the time, but it's still bothering me now.

That's kinda wrong, huh! :D

[joedoe]

I hear what you are saying Serpent.

A few years ago when I was in form for a tournament, I was so used to getting hit in the head that I actually used to take a few to the head at the start of sparring just to get warmed up. Now that is kinda twisted.

Ironfist, that kinda sucks that you were thrown into the deep end like that. Did they eventually show you how to avoid punches?

[IronFist]

Well, I guess I'm kind of learning that now. It's only my third day tonight.

IronFist

[Serpent]

I have to fight in two minutes! Come on! PUNCH ME IN THE HEAD!

:D

[Serpent]

Originally posted by IronFist
Well, I guess I'm kind of learning that now. It's only my third day tonight.

IronFist

Give it a while. You'll be owned by them for a time, but you'll get your own back eventually! ;)

[Shooter]

Having a stronger neck isn't gonna help much. By what you described, that has very little to do with what's happening in your sparring. Your perceptions govern your actions. Change the way you peceive getting hit, and you'll change your fear-based reactions into positive tactical responses. Simple...

[fa_jing]

I'll tell you what - don't think that the punches you guys are describing are the limit of the power of a punch that you might receive in a street-fight or competition.

When you've been TKO'd, then come back and talk to me.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by fa_jing
I'll tell you what - don't think that the punches you guys are describing are the limit of the power of a punch that you might receive in a street-fight or competition.

When you've been TKO'd, then come back and talk to me.

Yeah, right, big man. We weren't talking to you in the first place.

Why are you assuming we haven't been KO'd in the past?

Arrogant twat.

[yenhoi]

You of all people mr weight lifter shouldent need extras for his neck.

I think you just need to get punched AT more, get comfortable with being in that environment.

:eek:

[SevenStar]

yeah, as a newbie, j00 can't avoid being 0wn3d. That'll change over time. have you done any sparring yet, or just the drills?

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by fa_jing
I'll tell you what - don't think that the punches you guys are describing are the limit of the power of a punch that you might receive in a street-fight or competition.

When you've been TKO'd, then come back and talk to me.

I've KOed someone and been TKOed myself... I don't understand the comment though - was that in response to JD purposely taking head shots?

[fa_jing]

Originally posted by Serpent


Yeah, right, big man. We weren't talking to you in the first place.

Why are you assuming we haven't been KO'd in the past?

Arrogant twat.

Good morning to you too.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Shooter
Having a stronger neck isn't gonna help much. By what you described, that has very little to do with what's happening in your sparring. Your perceptions govern your actions. Change the way you peceive getting hit, and you'll change your fear-based reactions into positive tactical responses. Simple...

I think it could be both. He leaned back, which is a viable method of getting out of the way of a jab. A stronger neck will definitely help his shot absorption, and once he's used to punches being hurled at him, he'll learn how to move accordingly, and with better timing.

[joedoe]

Originally posted by fa_jing
I'll tell you what - don't think that the punches you guys are describing are the limit of the power of a punch that you might receive in a street-fight or competition.

When you've been TKO'd, then come back and talk to me.

I did mention that I was talking about training for a tournament. Ironfist did say he was training at the MMA club. No one said anything about full power punches in a street fight.

[Serpent]

I think what Yenhoi and Shooter said are both very valid points. However, it's also a matter of getting used to being punched. In any confrontation, be it street or competition, you will get punched and you need to get used to that.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by fa_jing


Good morning to you too.

Actually, it's afternoon here. ;)

[fa_jing]

OK, you guys are misinterpreting me, and it's more than one of you so it's my fault, although I resent Serpent's remark. The training that you are doing is good. And, there's no way to train for taking a knockout punch without it unfortunately happening. Just thinking along the lines of, be aware that there is a whole other level of getting stung. Because what you are describing, like the jaw bone hurting after 2 weeks, is pretty normal during training, not that that should be happening all of the time. Again, Ironfist was nervous after getting knocked down, I'm saying he came back up with plenty of energy so indeed, he should expect to have to deal with an even higher level of pain should he decide to compete.

[Serpent]

And that's a much nicer remark than saying, "Come back and talk to me when you've been KO'd!" Surely you can see the superiority and arrogance of your previous post?

As for the subject, my talking about my jawbone was in reference to the fact that the punch didn't even make me pause, yet two weeks later I'm still feeling it. Thereby indicating that I'm a lot more used to taking hits than someone else might be. It doesn't belittle or enhance the nature of a KO, it's just an example.

And while you can't train for a KO without being KO'd, continued training will make you more and more able to take harder and harder hits, thereby removing the shock of being stung and reducing the risk of a KO.

[Shooter]

Seven, perhaps. I just think having a more assertive mindset is an essential first step. It makes for greater gains early on, IME.

[SevenStar]

so instead of the rollback, you'd rather train him to sidestep first? I agree with that.

[yenhoi]

Having a stronger neck could possibly help his speed and dexterity when moving around punches etc, but stregthening the neck I think is the wrong way to approach how to defend vs getting punched. That said, making your neck stronger should be a part of everyones routine at some point. Will also help when you get into the grappling IF.

We call those wall drills, some people call it progressive sparring.

Rear foot against the wall, allowed to move, but always has to be in contact with wall. You not allowed to hit back. 1st round vs opponents lead hand only, 2nd round vs opponents rear hand only, 3rd round vs both. Switch. Then go into the ring and draw a line, do the same thing and allow both people to move about freely but not cross the line, 1st round with lead only, etc. So on and so on.

Do whatever this punching in the head drill is more and more, and try to not get hit so much :D

You might also pick up some bob and weave drills, and ducking, just some random things you can work on on your own.

[Serpent]

And keep your guard up! ;)

[fa_jing]

Actually I was just trying to be concise. And I meant in the sense of, come back when you get KO'd so we can commiserate properly. I'm in a constant b!tch mode about my head injury.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by fa_jing
Actually I was just trying to be concise. And I meant in the sense of, come back when you get KO'd so we can commiserate properly. I'm in a constant b!tch mode about my head injury.

What's the injury?

[fa_jing]

It's called "second impact concussion"

I got a mild concussion, then took shots to the head two weeks later in sparring. I started to feel bad immediately, but it progressively got worse. When I woke up the next day, I had second impact syndrome which is swelling on the brain. This is a known medical phenomena, usually happens when a person gets concussed, then gets in a car accident and bumps their head again a couple of weeks later. If you have a really bad case or bleeding on the brain, then they have to drill a hole in your head. Fortunately that was not necessary.

Moral of the story - be careful and if you get hurt, do some research and wait until you are fully healed.

I'm still recovering from the injury - haven't been to a class in 4 months.

[SevenStar]

so you decided not to take up taiji?

[fa_jing]

Actually I'm planning on starting in February, but I've discovered the beauty of having more time in my life. Plus the weather's been extremely cold.

[SevenStar]

who are you gonna be training with?

[fa_jing]

Dr. Wu Shih-Cun, 5413 N. Clark Street, Chicago, IL. He's written 8 books on Taiji in Chinese and English. I've been to him for acupuncture about 10 times on recommendation from another sifu, which is how I know him.

I expect it to be more health-focused than martial - but he does teach all four major styles, two man forms, weapons, etc. Hopefully he'll hook me up with some Chen-style.

[SevenStar]

sounds good.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by fa_jing
It's called "second impact concussion"

I got a mild concussion, then took shots to the head two weeks later in sparring. I started to feel bad immediately, but it progressively got worse. When I woke up the next day, I had second impact syndrome which is swelling on the brain. This is a known medical phenomena, usually happens when a person gets concussed, then gets in a car accident and bumps their head again a couple of weeks later. If you have a really bad case or bleeding on the brain, then they have to drill a hole in your head. Fortunately that was not necessary.

Moral of the story - be careful and if you get hurt, do some research and wait until you are fully healed.

I'm still recovering from the injury - haven't been to a class in 4 months.

Dayum. No wonder you got a permanent ***** mode going on!

Get well soon, eh.

[morbicid]

I think its great that you get punched in the head, Ironfist. I think it will really improve your fighting skills. Stop trying to dodge and just let them punch you in the head really hard.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by morbicid
I think its great that you get punched in the head, Ironfist. I think it will really improve your fighting skills. Stop trying to dodge and just let them punch you in the head really hard.

Obviously quoting from experience there, morbicid. It's apparent from every post you make.

[IronFist]

Yes, I realize that I will have to deal with harder punches. But I want to be introduced to lighter ones before I start dealing with really hard ones.

IronFist

[morbicid]

You should play more kick ball ironfist. It will get u used to headshots because kids like to throw the ball at your head to get you out (even though it's NOT allowed!!). It usually isnt too hard though, so you'll get a variety of head shots. Light ones. Medium ones. Some hard ones. Then when you go into a boxing ring, after a long game of kick ball, you'll be like Hey, this is like playing kickball.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by IronFist
Yes, I realize that I will have to deal with harder punches. But I want to be introduced to lighter ones before I start dealing with really hard ones.

IronFist

That should be the way it's done. Otherwise their taking the ****. ;)

[IronFist]

What's "taking the ****?"

IronFist

[Mr Punch]

Taking the **** = winding you up = extracting the michael = having a go = taking a pop = taking the rise = mocking you = being irresponsible/derisive/derogatory towards you... etc

Like this:

Serpent
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by morbicid
I think its great that you get punched in the head, Ironfist. I think it will really improve your fighting skills. Stop trying to dodge and just let them punch you in the head really hard.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Obviously quoting from experience there, morbicid. It's apparent from every post you make.

[FatherDog]

I have read studies (none of which I can cite by name, so take it with a grain of salt) that were done on boxers. Neck strength was strongly linked to being knocked out less. The reasoning given was that stronger neck muscles are able to keep the head more stable, transferring the force to the musculature rather than causing the head to whip back. This goes against the principle of yielding, in that you are trying to keep your head stable and just absorb the force, which means your jaw/face will get bruised up a bit more because the force is not being expended in making your head go backwards. But knockouts are not caused by the bruising/pain on your face; they are caused by the sudden, shocking movement of your head causing your brain to impact against the inside of your skull. So neck strength, keeping your chin tucked, and your head stable, help to prevent knockouts.

Once again, this is from memory of studies that I cannot cite, and I am not a medical professional. Anyone who is is welcome to chime in.

[Shooter]

Yep, really no secret as to what causes KOs.

Seven, my own idea is having to do with perception. I'm more inclined to have newbies move into the other person's punches than trying to evade them...at first anyway. Evasion is something learned by recognizing the peculiar pre-emptive movement cycles involved...that takes a bit of time and good footwork. Closing the distance is more conducive to MMA, but I'm coming at the idea from a TCC perspective...not much difference between the two really. :D

[Liokault]

how close are you to the guy? If you can not see his hands move before they hit you may be you are to close? Can u adjust the distance or is that down to the guy doing the hitting?

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Mat
Taking the **** = winding you up = extracting the michael = having a go = taking a pop = taking the rise = mocking you = being irresponsible/derisive/derogatory towards you... etc

Like this:
[/B]

Like taking the mickey out of someone?

I learned that from this girl from England.

How would you use that one in a sentense? I took the mickey out of him? That sounds kind of gross.

IronFist

[TaoBoy]

Originally posted by IronFist


Like taking the mickey out of someone?

I learned that from this girl from England.

How would you use that one in a sentense? I took the mickey out of him? That sounds kind of gross.

IronFist

Taking the p!ss sounds better.

;)

[Serpent]

Taking the **** and taking the mickey are the same thing.

Example: "I had to hit him becuase he was just relentlessly taking the mick!"

or, when someone is mocking you:

"Are you taking the ****, mate?"

etc.

[lowsweep]

The best boxing drill I've ever done for this is to get a sparring partner, gloves, and some tape. one man is on offense, the other is on defense. The defensive man puts his gloves up against his forehead in the position for getting punched (make fists, put your hands against your forehead with palms facing your face, keep your elbows close together to stop uppercuts, and pull your shoulders up to help stop hooks). Now someone puts a circle of tape around your gloves and head, holding the gloves in place. Now you do light contact sparring. It sounds a bit brutal but the offense man doesnt have to hit hard. You figure out hor to make punches miss you VERY quickly... Also, you may try a punch slipping ball (looks like a speedbag) or a slipping rope (your practice bobbing and weaving under it).

[SevenStar]

I couldn't use the phrase "taking the **** " and still consider myself cool...

[Serpent]

Originally posted by SevenStar
I couldn't use the phrase "taking the **** " and still consider myself cool...

That's because you're not cool.

Besides, you have to be English or Australian really to get away with it. You Yanks just aren't up to the task.

;)

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Serpent


Besides, you have to be English or Australian really to get away with it. You Yanks just aren't up to the task.

;)

That pretty much explains it - they are the only ones uncool enough to be able to get away with it. :D

[morbicid]

its a disturbing world, where people can have sex with inanimate objects and then go apply for a job working with children...

[IronFist]

what the **** are you talking about?

IronFist

[Kristoffer]

A GDA wannabe?

[dezhen2001]

morbicid: :confused:

lowsweep: my old coach basically did the same thing with me as i was used to doing karate type blocks and parries all the time. it works pretty well - if ur partner doesnt smack the crap outta ya! :)

dawood

[unrelated]

[Quote]
It causes brain damage with too much of it?...

But kungfu "quick blood" exercise...
[Quote]


Yes, repetitive strikes do cause brain damage. The cumulative effects of these strikes can be serious over time, including Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s like problems. Head gear is not believed to help. This is seem in sports other than boxing that involve players receiving repetitive blows to the head, such as soccer and American football

Also, if anyone has had a concussion, be careful about getting another one as the second is believed to cause permanent loss of cognitive ability.

For any training, consider the results, both desirable and undesirable. If anyone is interested in the research behind this, most of it is online. A good place to start is: http://health.nih.gov/

Try BBC for popular summaries of research.


Stumblefist,
Do you also refer to "blood quickening" exercises as "boiling"? Do you consider them related to shaking/tremor practices?

[SevenStar]

Anybody else wanna see morbicid get banned?

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by SevenStar
Anybody else wanna see morbicid get banned?

Getting WHAT banned?? Sounds like a sexually transmitted disease.

:D :D

[SevenStar]

:D I would consider him a type of disease

[unrelated]

Originally posted by Stumblefist
Maybe you are the only other one here that says: "
Hey! Wait an minute! Aint nobody of you seen what happens to boxers after a few years?"
Lose the brain and the windpipe and the nose and the eyes and ... what was that movie about some boxers? ... "something City" circa 1970's... i'll try to net search it later.
...
Boiling ... yes i have.
Shaking/tremor practice.... related? yes. That is related to the long term effect of kungfu exercise and the use and release in the nervous system.
The boxer has had more experience taking punches but his energy level and movement is much lower at least in the kungfu I do.
Breaking bones (not even know it til later) and taking hits hasn't stopped me until the fights over.
Just like all the old movies.

Stumblefist,

Thanks for the information on the movie. I’ll have to watch it sometime.

Every boxer I’ve met has neurological problems. I met Joe Frazier at a party once. He was a very nice guy but the hits to the head have hurt. He still works out every day but all he can do is shadowbox and hit the bag. Even the amateurs have problems after a few years. It would probably be (somewhat) better if they didn’t use gloves.

Is your Mantis Northern or Southern?