Something I found on a talk Forum from Singapore about Yip Kin Wing Chun

[FIRE HAWK]

Dear Jack,

For your information, Yip Kin was never in any affiliation with Yip Man. He was in fact older than Yip Man by at least 20 years. His style was similar to Cho Kah Wing Chung of which was from Sifu Cho Tuck Seng, Cho Onn and etcs. I must say that the style is very different from Yip Man cause it is very traditional and nothing was diluted in the Shiu Lim Tao, San Ta, Choi Ta and Chi Soa etcs. It has both the outer door and the inner door concept as well. Myself & my other training mates are almost completing the gathering of the history, lineage and etcs, and this will be out in the website under "CHO KAH WING CHUNG" real soon. To all that view this, please remember this, Yip Kin is never in any relation nor affilations which Yip Man. Doesn't mean that both have the same writing in english "Yip" will be the same. The chinese pronounce is different as most of us know that english way of writing is very limited. Nonetheless, this form of Wing Chung is only taught by Sifu Ku Choi Wah. He is one person I have seen & trains with that was remarkable among many Wing Chung masters I have tried and met. Though he chose to stay in a low profile, but I guess his choice was right as he is one of those old masters having the traditional thinking. Myself & my training mates herein wish him best of health and may the "Cho Kah Wing Chung" grows when we graduate from him

[reneritchie]

There's no relation between Yip Kin WCK and Cho family WCK (the former based on Siu and Dai Mui Fa, the latter on Siu Lien Tao). There are, however, some crazy people in the region who insist on rather bizarre things (that Yip Kin was Yip Man's 3rd son - anyone with knowledge of Yip Man's HK time will understand how ludicrous that is, and more bizarre claims).

[planetwc]

However Yip Man apparently had a daughter?
I've often wondered what happened to her and if she ever had any exposure to her father's art.

[FIRE HAWK]

If there is no relation to Yip Kin Wing Chun and Cho Familm Wing Chun then why in your book Complete Wing Chun on page 117 does it say that Yip Kin was a student of Cao Desheng of Cho family Wing Cun and on your website at this link under the Yip Kin Wing Chun section it list Yip Kin in the lineage of Cho family Wing Chun and at the bottom of the page says that Yip Kin learned Cho Family Wing Chun when he came to Malaysia .
http://www.wingchunkuen.com/archives/biographies/ancestors/yipkin.html

[reneritchie]

Hi Firehawk,

Sorry, let me clarify, the WCK Yip Kin brought to Malaysia was not related to Cho Ga. It has as its base the Siu Mui Fa and Dai Mui Fa sets as opposed to Siu Lien Tao. In Malaysia, some say he continued to study with the Cho's, while others deny it (as I said, there are a lot of stories coming out of that region). Either way, his branch, as brought to Malaysia, was distinct.

[byond1]

sorry ren---i dont get what you mean.....yip kin was supposd to have learned from so kai ming--yik kam.....same person cho shun==sam chan and cheong way bo trace back to and yet there is several variation....this might help you know what im talking about....

1) comp[lete wc ch. on nanyang.....lineage from cho dak sing--cho on--lao s.y......has slt, ck,bj, as well as fa kune and other sets

2)cho shun--sam chan---cheong way bo-----ban chung wchoon
stage 1--- yee gee kim yeung mah, sup bo yee gee mah, chi bart dim lin wan kiu, sup saam sao
stage 2----siu nim tao, wan yun chum kiu, noi ying biu tze, fa kune, saam sing poon lung chong, saam chin cheung
stage 3---weapons

3) yip fook choi--yip kins grandson .....siu fa kune (slt differant name). chum kiu, biu tze, fa kune and tit pou jarn

4) cho hung choi----slt 4 part, fa kune, wc kune form (?11 hands) plus other forms

so i am real confused.....why does lao student in complete wc and some cho branchs have the 3 forms and yet hendriks preserve 1 slt set???

brian

[byond1]

also what do you mean by cho gar...cho family martial arts? is this refer just to the cho wc or all the m.a from them
b

[reneritchie]

Yik Kam and Yip Kin are not the same person, and the Chinese characters for their names are not remotely similar.

Cho Shun is NOT Saam Chan. Cho Shun taught Saam Chan, a neaby villager, to help him defend his village.

If someone is spreading the above information, please try to set them straight, as it is a diservice to both Yip Kin and the Cho family lineages.

1 ) Nanyang WCK is a name Y. Wu uses. It reflects not only Cho Ga, but all the WCK taught in the Nanyang (South East Asia) including Yip Man. Cho Ga WCK has no CK or BJ, though the 2nd and 3rd sections of their long 4 section SLT are analogus to sets with those names in other branches.

2 ) Ban Chung is name used in the old days in Malaysia to signify the art came from the Opera Company.

3) Siu Fa Kuen is in *no* way similar to SLT. And if they're using the name Chum Kiu, it is a recent change.

4) I think it's 13 hands.

Lao Suen found religion and turned away from Martial Arts. Also, Malaysia is not a Western country where people study for fun and hobby, but a place where bladed weapon fights are still common. People learned to survive, not to preserve a certain specific lineage. If you look, you can find Pien San people with SNT, CK, and BJ from Augustine Fong tapes, but that doesn't mean its an ancestral part of the system. You can also find people doing Yip and Sum style Luk Sao now when they hadn't heard of it a few decades ago.

Cho Ga WCK, or the WCK of the Cho family. Hendrik uses Yik Kam WCK. Some call it Panyu WCK.

[byond1]

i wasnt clear in my writing....yip kin was supposid to have learned from so kai ming---reportedly by some to be yik kam
of cource cho shun isnt sam chan since that was his sifu and that was what i was trying to illustrate with my lame diograms..lol


o.k so traditionaly the 4 section slt is found in cho family and if anyone says differant it is a modernization...got ya

but why does y.wu explain all about there slt, ck and bj? as individual forms....

ban chung is an old term which cheong way bo addapted as a modern name for his organization

the info actually states that siu fa kune is snt with a differant name..lo....go figure ...odd ball mutations are a foot

[reneritchie]

Hey Brian,

Sorry, I've been dealing with the == (equal) =! (does not equal) techie crew all day. There are all sorts of names tossed around for who Yip Kin learned from, but it probably wasn't Yik Kam.

Y. Wu was talking about Nanyang WCK, not strictly Cho. Hendrik inherited the info for Cho outside China, and not everyone had access to it previously (though he's been sharing it recently). As sometimes happens, when there are hole, it gets plugged with what's available.

I'm not sure who coined Ban Chung first. The Cho's used it early on. I think New Martial Hero used it when it talked about Cho Hung Choi back in the 70s.

They may recently be saying that Siu Fa Kuen (Siu Mui Fa) is SNT, but I've seen 2 version, both similar to each other, and not at all like SNT/SLT. Some may feel WCK needs a set with that name, and so just use it.

[Hsanto]

Hi Rene,

Ip Kin's family is certainly not Yik Kam's decendent.

In 1980's there is a meeting between Yip Fok-Choy and my sihengs. Incidentally, my instructor of Kyokushin kai, Late Joe Chin Tak-Chin was also involved.

There are news paper .... send to me from my sihengs and there are message exchange in this meeting.. from my sihengs....




Dai Fa and Siw Fa are not SLT of Yik KAm.

Yik Kam is a Chern Tan so he has his "female" signature in the art he is passing.

The other person who knows SLT of Yik Kam in Malaysia at the old time is Sam Chaan who is the Student of Cho Soon and grandstudent of Yik Kam.

the 4 section SLT is only release to very few people and it is even less who has completel set.

via the Cho family of Penang. At early of Cho On's teaching, he taught some, Cho Hong-Choy is also teaching to some of his close students. Most of the teaching is available to Cho blood line only.


Hendrik

[Jim Roselando]

Hello Hendrik,


It seems that the Cho family has maintained some of the same traditional family/village Kung Fu ethics as the Fung family of Koo Lo village.

The family would have access to the proper teaching/system of Dr. Leung Jan as taught/preserved by Wong Wah Sam, and a few close "very close" friends were also taught, but others may have not recieved the whole enchillada.

Even my own sifu teaches in this sort of way but Sifu often comments that;

"Even if you dont have the whole proper art it doesnt matter. Consider yourself lucky to have learned what you have as this art was once "and still is" extremely secretive. Also, if you cant defend yourself with the basics you dont understand WC and would not deserve the additional training"


Regards,

[Hsanto]

Hi Jim,

Life is tough right? LOL
Release it or not release it both way can be wrong.

[reneritchie]

Hendrik,

Thanks, that's my understanding. I think the fact that the 4 section Siu Lien Tao performed in Guangzhou, from the mainland branch of your family, still matched so closely with what you do, is a very good sign that your sifu still preserved well, and passed on well, the art.

RR