Another Muy Thai/Boxing question

[red5angel]

Last night we were doing some drills, and we were doing this technique where your opponent throws a punch, say a right hook and you duck and cover your head with your arm and slip into the punch. So you duck, your left arm comes up between your head and the incoming right hook.

Can anyone tell me if there is a name for this technique?

[Souljah]

in our 1st form its called #12 :D :D

erm its abit of a bob and weave isnt it? (was it a circular motion you made while punching and defending+ducking?)

I dont think there is a strict name for the technique....could be wrong though.

greg

[red5angel]

Souljah, you will have to excuse me if my descriptions are rough, this is my first forey into anything but wingchun.

Essentially you duck and move inside for an elbow. You take the hook with your raised arm, protecting the head. Does that make sense?

Also, do any of you guys have suggestions for working kicks at home if I don't have thai pads yet? I have a heavy bag but it is sort of high up.

[apoweyn]

Can anyone tell me if there is a name for this technique?

as far as i know, you've already used the right term. covering. weaving and covering combined. whether there's a specific thai term, i couldn't say.


stuart b.

[SevenStar]

there's not a specific term that I know of either. as for the bag, can you lower it a bit?

[carly]

Take the heavy bag down and stand it up on its bottom. If you have a partner or friend who can help, and it's necessary to make it work, have him (while staying awake) hold the top of the bag.
Practice your downward roundhouse cutting kick against the bagas if it were an opponent's leg. That's the kick you want to practice, right?
If the bag moves when you kick it, follow it and kick it from one end of the garage/basement/backyard to the other, and then repeat.

[Ford Prefect]

I've trained in a couple boxing and thai gyms and it is always referred to as the "telephone block" because it's like you are holding a phone up to your ear.

[Suntzu]

at home I just kick air… I don’t have a bag yet… so basically I just shadow…
wing chun has a name for everything doesn't it??? It is what it is…

[ShaolinTiger00]

So you duck, your left arm comes up between your head and the incoming right hook.

Simply called a block. pretty standard stuff.

when you "move" a jab or cross by pushing it to the side its called a parry.

block - hooks and uppercuts

parry -a cross

and parry or catch -a jab.

duck and slipping punches = bob and weave

Slip inside/ slip outside a jab or cross - "stabbing punches"

duck under a hook. (hook and uppercuts are slashing punches) a

"rock" backwards on an uppercut.

So you see there is defense thru movement and defense thru stopping or deflecting a punch.

movement will take up less of your energy, but stopping is a must when you don't have anywhere to go. (he cut off your angle to move out.)

[TjD]

sounds like what i'd call "cowering" :D

[tsunami surfer]

We call it shell block in our school. Its like a turtle pulling into his shell. Just be faster than a turtle on your counter-strike

[ShaolinTiger00]

oh yeah. when using blocks and parry. Use same side arm. If you use opposite arm you open yourself up big.

good ex = he is in conventiaonl left stance and fires l jab, r cross, l hook, r uppercut

You are also in left leg lead stance. - parry or catch jab with right, parry the cross with left (towards your right), bring up arm right arm to block l hook, and bring down left forearm to stop r uppercut.

BTW : This is a great drill and is good for removing the "flinch" reflex as you get used to punches sailing at your melon..
have him mix up his combinations and you mix up blocks likewise. also mix in movement defense as well. parry the jab, slip the cross, duck the hook, rock back to avoid the uppercut.

[Souljah]

Also, do any of you guys have suggestions for working kicks at home if I don't have thai pads yet? I have a heavy bag but it is sort of high up.

I get what you mean about the first thing (ducking and punching bla blah) but I really dont think there is a specific name for it.

RED:

A good way just to get you kicking technique right - doing roundhouse kicks here.....aim for something.

I practice turning the light switch on and off with my round kicks. Its fun and it helps you learn your mechanics in a simple way, and about turning on you back leg more efficiently.

Without being off balance, Which was my 1st major problem when doing kicks - I went up on my toes too much.

A good one to try and develop strength in your legs (mainly thighs) you could try aiming for something while doing a side kick - and holding your leg outstretched for as long as you can. You can do the same with a front kick.
Its just a good thing to practice and you WILL see some improvement (relatively quickly) if you practice for a while.

anyways must be off for training see you in 4.

just try them, I hope they help.:D

[red5angel]

Thanks guys! Suntzu - Yep, wingchun has a term for everything and I am not particularly looking for Thai Jargon so much as conventional names for these tenchinques, mostly so I can describe the ass kickings I hand out as time goes on. ;)

Souljah, thanks for the help, I have that issue as well, when doing the kicks I often loose my balance.

It just occurred to me that a freind just gave me a second canvas heavy bag that hasn't been hung up so I thin I might be able to use that for kcking if I just leave it on the ground like carly mentioned!

Picking up some focus mitts and bag gloves tonight as well......

[carly]

well, you're going to learn to lean into your kicks, and to turn your hip and kick right through an opponent's legs and put your weight on your victim, so the balance issue won't be problem for you. Sounds like you're off on a great MA adventure!

[red5angel]

makes sense to me carly! I don't have any problems when I am on the bag but when I am just shadow boxing I often loose balance which jibes with what you are saying!

It's been awesome so far!!!!

[carly]

I wouldn't lie to you!
It sounds like you've been kicking with power and body weight behind the blows, which is the correct way to hit someone.
And now you've found a sysytem to study that makes use of that way of striking with full body power/weight.
If you kick the air and have perfect balance, then if that same kick contacted something, a person, a wall, you would fall over backwards, it would be just for show, for form or for points.
You sound liek you're doing it right.

[yenhoi]

Thai boxers also have stance training:

Face a wall. Stand with your toes up against the wall. Turn your left foot 90 degrees and touch the wall with your left hand around your hip. Raise your right leg up to about waist level, in the same structure as a thai round kick, and press the ball of your foot against the wall.

Its good fun, try it out!

Also, alot of thai kicks are practiced in the air or 'softly.' Cut kicks were originally taught to me without pads etc.

You should also hang up that heavy bag and stop being a slouch. Heavy bags are like the greatest training tools on earth. Well, they are great, its like having someone to hold pads for you, all the time.

Shadowbox.

Practice footwork, specially the rear round kick footwork.

Practice everything in both leads.

Stay on your toes.

We call that randomness that you did something like a bob and weave or duck type thing, and then a cover vs the hook. Eventually you will learn to change that basic defensive structure in small ways to be different (better in some ways) when you want it to. Also if you read up on some Mark the animal macyoung or whatnot, the 'cover' is the basic structure used in what he called something like shearing or something.

:eek:

[fa_jing]

That cover block against the hook, we learned that in 7* mantis class. But I don't like it too much - it works better against a gloved fist, and the power can still travel through your blocking arm and into your head. Some guy tried such a block against a high round kick in a Thai fight here at St. Andrew's gym, and got a broken arm for his effort. Still, probably a good emergency block.

[red5angel]

"You should also hang up that heavy bag and stop being a slouch"

I have one hanging up and got a second I haven't had time to hang up yet, so I can leave that on the ground for low kicks, like I said before you dyslexic son of a beyotch! :D


"Practice footwork, specially the rear round kick footwork"

Is that where you kick with the one leg, swing all the way around and come up with the knee in a 'defensive stance'?

Fa_jing, we were shown that particular duck and weave against an incoming hook, I can't imagine using it to stop a kick, especially for the reasons you pointed out!

[fa_jing]

Yes, apparently this was the guys first Muy Thai match - don't know what style he came from, but a bad mistake to try and stop the kick that way. Apparently the Muy Thai way against the High round kick is to fade away from the kick, and use something that looks like a double Tan Sao.

[ShaolinTiger00]

Still, probably a good emergency block.

Its better than taking one in the head, but not as good as ducking under. ;)

[yenhoi]

Is that where you kick with the one leg, swing all the way around and come up with the knee in a 'defensive stance'?

Sounds like what you do when you miss....


I mean, practice the footwork for throwing a thai round kick with your rear leg, unlike the lead thai round kick you dont do the "switch", you do some fun stuff with your legs (footwork) that kinda wobbles your weight over your centerline, and blast! Rear round kick!

Maybe no one has taught you this yet, but when someone does, then practice it.

I like rear round kicks better because there is not as much visable telegraph as the lead, but it does 'take longer' to use.

Also note that the low kicks have the same structure as the midline and the high thai kicks, so at first I would practice them higher, and then get into going high low high etc. The low thai round kick has an extramechanic to it also...

If you have a bag hung up, then go kick it!

[red5angel]

yesterday we started working on some warmups. One of those was where you throw the kick with the back leg and it circles around, like if you missed, and you come around with the knee up defensively.

[Kinjit]

Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00
Still, probably a good emergency block.

Its better than taking one in the head, but not as good as ducking under. ;)

Don't you ever use the covering motion as a counter-attack? It sounds like you only use it as a defensive blocking motion....

[red5angel]

Kinjit, what I've learned so far is to duck in as a block but then use the elbows on the counter attack.

[ShaolinTiger00]

Yeah you can block and bring the elbow inside or bring up a lead uppercut, or jab or...

He was asking basic questions, so I gave simple answers.

[Kinjit]

Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00
Yeah you can block and bring the elbow inside or bring up a lead uppercut, or jab or...

He was asking basic questions, so I gave simple answers.

Heh, no worries- I haven't trained MT myself, just interested in how you use the covering motion- I meant for example spearing the bicep while you move in. Anyway, Hope I'm not taking this off-topic.