Ouch--WC in UFC on bullshido site :(

[Akuma]

Owww that clip looks painful. I'm not sure if that's been posted here yet.

The WC guy got taken down almost immediately and spanked on the ground...ohh well...I'd been wanting to see that clip for awhile.

I think it's only a matter of time though when a serious WC guy gets into the UFC and knows grappling as well etc...

http://bullshido.tv/dl_info.asp?id=99

[t_niehoff]

Akuma wrote:

I think it's only a matter of time though when a serious WC guy gets into the UFC and knows grappling as well etc... A

WCK is grappling - and striking too. Perhaps it has more to do with having a WCK practitioner that has the *skill* not to be taken to the ground. TN

Terence

[Martial Joe]

I think a world class wrestler should learn wing chun.

[Kristoffer]

jah

[edward]

who was he a student of.... what line did this fall under just curious...

[planetwc]

Asbel Cancio,

Florida Prison Guard and Ving Tsun instructor under the Moy Yat lineage. From what I remember, the Moy Yat organization did not have much in the way of information about Mr. Cancio and if he was a certified instructor or level/amount of training in the Moy Yat system.

Starts out with a mun sao, gets taken down with a double leg takedown, mounted and pounded into submision from the mount.

In slowing down the fight one notices that Asbel did not have a response for the launch of the shoot for the takedown. From there it was all over.


Originally posted by edward
who was he a student of.... what line did this fall under just curious...

[edward]

he was blocking with his face!

[planetwc]

Bullshido also posted a clip of Jose Grados' Music video.
:D :cool:

http://209.197.240.134/media/sifu_music_video.html

"Someone anonymously submitted this rap video of Sifu José Gurano performing Wing Chun. I've got to admit, it's a catchy tune."

Looks like the contest for American Wing Chun Idol is ON!

[Grendel]

Originally posted by Akuma
Owww that clip looks painful. I'm not sure if that's been posted here yet.

Any good grappler would have killed the wrestler on that entry. Good Wing Chun would have killed him long before. Look at the clip again and see the wrestler faking, shucking, and jiving---wide open for a Wing Chun entry and finish.


The WC guy got taken down almost immediately and spanked on the ground...ohh well...I'd been wanting to see that clip for awhile.

The clip says the fat boy was trained in Ving Tsun, not Wing Chun. I don't understand why the wrestler bothered to hit the guy on the ground. He could have finished much more quickly with a submission hold.


I think it's only a matter of time though when a serious WC guy gets into the UFC and knows grappling as well etc...

Maybe. Of course real Wing Chun doesn't require grappling in these stand-up situations.

Regards,

[JK Walz]

Originally posted by edward
he was blocking with his face!

Exactly!! I saw the same thing.

[Akuma]

Originally posted by planetwc
Bullshido also posted a clip of Jose Grados' Music video.
:D :cool:

http://209.197.240.134/media/sifu_music_video.html

"Someone anonymously submitted this rap video of Sifu José Gurano performing Wing Chun. I've got to admit, it's a catchy tune."

Looks like the contest for American Wing Chun Idol is ON!

I'll be the first to admit I'm a newbie to wing chun but I really like the stuff Grados has on his site.

I think more instructors should follow his example and put some demonstration techniques on the web.

That way people from other lineages can see how techniques can be applied in similar/same or different ways :)

I think some wing chun people or just martial arts instructors in general are scared to put stuff up like Grados has because they're scared that because anyone can see it, they'll be more subjected to judgement and scrutiny by other people in the martial arts community.

Thing is, lots of people have big talk about what is good and what isn't and yet they don't show anyone their techniques etc in video so it's sort of pointless and hypcritical.

I'm starting to ramble now so I'll stop but you guys get my point :)

[KenWingJitsu]

Stop living in denial when the proof is before you. The only way to stop a takedown is to be prepared for it. If you dont know what that is, you never will. Talking theory and slowing down video is armcahir photography. Train for real and that won't happen to you. Do your forms and wooden dummy and get into a fight, ................................the same will happen to you.

Truth...it's what's for dinner.

[yuanfen]

David of Planet WC pointed out that the guy didnt do anything when the takedown began-
dont blame wing chun- blame the guy who like most dont know wing chun. Since there is no quality control- anybody can claim to be doing wing chun.

[Martial Joe]

I dont understand why they dont get goo at fighting on the ground first before they go in.

[planetwc]

Part of it IS analyzing fights and what went wrong.
Boxers do that. Pro Football teams do it as well.

I certainly agree that it makes sense to train against a takedown (such as the sprawl and counterstriking during the initial moments of the shoot). That said there aren't really any guarentees against takedowns or we'd see that wrestlers would just stop other wrestlers from doing so 100% of the time.

Not having a strategy for takedowns and not training for them is being in denial. Analyzing a fight in slow motion certainly isn't.


Originally posted by KenWingJitsu
Stop living in denial when the proof is before you. The only way to stop a takedown is to be prepared for it. If you dont know what that is, you never will. Talking theory and slowing down video is armcahir photography. Train for real and that won't happen to you. Do your forms and wooden dummy and get into a fight, ................................the same will happen to you.

Truth...it's what's for dinner.

[TjD]

:eek:

that was the stupidest clip i've ever seen.

wow

[Tom Kagan]

In slowing down the fight one notices that Asbel did not have a response for the launch of the shoot for the takedown. From there it was all over.

In my opinion, its was already over at least 12 weeks before the takedown.

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15627

I am a member of the http://bullshido.us forums and enjoy the site a great deal.

[Bortacus]

That had to be the worst wing chun i've ever seen. He looks like he had one lesson and used what he knew from that: the stance, the guard. It seems Bullshido likes to put videos of wing chun, and other traditional martial arts getting beat.

[Bortacus]

That had to be the worst wing chun i've ever seen. He looks like he had one lesson and used what he knew from that: the stance, the guard. It seems Bullshido likes to put videos of wing chun, and other traditional martial arts getting beat.

[KenWingJitsu]

It seems Bullshido likes to put videos of wing chun, and other traditional martial arts getting beat.
Maybe its because they actually got beat and are deluisonal? If WC guys trained more realistically....uh...those clips would not exist.

That had to be the worst wing chun i've ever seen.
I wonder how much better you would have done. Just curious:cool:

[WCFighter]

Just because you slap a wing chun T-shirt on a guy, and tell him to stand in a wing tsun stance with his guard up, doesn't make him a respectable wing chun practicioner.

My wife could've beat the $#*&* out of this guy and she doesn't know any martial arts.

What kind of ******* just stands there and waits to be taken down?

WT/WC is a frikkin striking style that , when done right, can really punish an opponent in a matter of seconds.

I respect serious martials artists from any style, but I have no respect for the UFC. It is obvious that it is mainly a "rigged" marketing tool for the Gracie style. They seem to allow (or encourage) untrained individuals to compete while wearing the uniform ( or assuming the stances ) of known martial arts; knowing full well that they will be creamed. It makes the Gracie style look good, and people will come rushing to join their classes.


Gracie BJJ is pretty effective, as I have heard, and I am not saying it isn't, but the caliber of the people in the UFC competing from non-striking styles is very low at times; and it sometimes feels like I'm watching a "rigged" WWF match.


That's all I have to say about that !

[MArtist]

LOL at all the clueless people saying "the guy didn't know wing chun, a real wing chun guy would know how not to get taken down, the UFC is rigged, etc."

[Merryprankster]

WCFighter,

The UFC has not been a Gracie operation since, I believe, UFC 4. We are now in the 40's.

Every person is entitled to their opinion, but no man is entitled to be wrong about their facts.

[WCFighter]

MerryPrankster,

I wasn't aware that the Gracies no longer own the UFC. My bad !
I stopped watching the UFC a while ago. Thanks for the update.


Watching that clip of the "Wing Chun" "fighter" in the UFC that gets his ass handed to him, well... He looks like a Krispy Kreme greeter (with no martial art training) that was told to put on a "Wing Chun" T-shirt and step into a ring to take a beating for $1000 .

[Merryprankster]

Eh, maybe he is and maybe he ain't. He got $1000 for his trouble though, maybe.

Clear he didn't train much, however. You need to be in real shape.

You might consider getting one of the later tapes. Pride is a better event IMO. Love it. Give it a whirl. Good stuff.

[yuanfen]

He got $1000 for his trouble though, maybe.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is that what they are paying? Peanuts- for the gallery?

[planetwc]

That was a LONG time ago. Times have changed in terms of NHB and payouts. That was what UFC 5 and they have run 35 more since then.

Also the skill and attributes of the fighters have changed significantly and guys like Cancio would not make the cut to get into the ring. Even though it would be the usual grist for the mill in terms of "traditional" vs mma.

Bottom line is there aren't going to be any just WC/VT/WT guys entering these events without a significant amount of training and experience otherwise they would just get chewed up quickly. So they would have to have grounding with ground grappling and MMA events experience.

Which is the stuff that Kenwingjitsu is talking about.

[SirenOfAcreLane]

I saw that fight a while ago, and it's clear that not only does the guy have little to no wing chun skill, but he lacks a basic grasp of fighting in general. Even the most witless of fighters will try and avoid a 200 pound man running at their legs...

[Fred Sanford]

Wing chun the real street lethal.

LOL

[Miles Teg]

Boxers havent done that well in the UFC either.


But why do we have to PI$$ on the guy. He got out there and did something that none of us (almost) have the balls to do. We should be proud that there is someone from W.C who is actually getting out there to put there skills to the test, because there arent many.
I havent been in many fights but I imagine the more fights you get into the more you will learn and the less the adrenalin monster takes over. Id say this guy has one up on us internet warriors.

[Akuma]

Originally posted by Miles Teg
Boxers havent done that well in the UFC either.


But why do we have to PI$$ on the guy. He got out there and did something that none of us (almost) have the balls to do. We should be proud that there is someone from W.C who is actually getting out there to put there skills to the test, because there arent many.
I havent been in many fights but I imagine the more fights you get into the more you will learn and the less the adrenalin monster takes over. Id say this guy has one up on us internet warriors.

Yeah, agreed.

[Merryprankster]

I saw that fight a while ago, and it's clear that not only does the guy have little to no wing chun skill, but he lacks a basic grasp of fighting in general. Even the most witless of fighters will try and avoid a 200 pound man running at their legs...

True. Unfortunately, this Dave Beneteau executed a SHOT and NOT a "running tackle at the legs."

A completely different issue altogether.

[Matrix]

Originally posted by Miles Teg
But why do we have to PI$$ on the guy. He got out there and did something that none of us (almost) have the balls to do. Because it's easy to sit back in our chairs and type these responses......to watch the video and critique it. Wing Chun's answer to the armchair quarterback.;)

I'm with you on this one Miles.

Matrix

[UltimateFighter]

***Needless personal insult removed***


Lets see the 'points' you made:


Originally posted by Grendel

Any good grappler would have killed the wrestler on that entry. Good Wing Chun would have killed him long before. Look at the clip again---wide open for a Wing Chun entry and finish.


Killed him on entry to a double leg? LOL! The WC'er needed a sprawl and to use knees. Easy to talk about, hard to do.



I don't understand why the wrestler bothered to hit the guy on the ground. He could have finished much more quickly with a submission hold.


I suppose he should have tickled him on the ground instead!!!??? What he did was 'ground and pound'- one of the most effective way to finish a fight from the mount. A submission was not necessary and would have taken longer and required a different position.


***Needless personal insult removed***

[Mr.Binx]

Originally posted by Miles Teg
He got out there and did something that none of us (almost) have the balls to do. We should be proud that there is someone from W.C who is actually getting out there to put there skills to the test, because there arent many.

I don't know if I would salute the WC practioner's tecticles in this case. A fantasy land ego most likely supressed any perception of his to realize that he was not yet ready for full combat with a willful opponent. Seems he gained that wisdom the hard way. ;) His opponent's eyes (read: spirit) destroyed the guy before the match started. My kudos to the victor.