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Stumblefist
11-06-2000, 08:34 AM
I transferred this from Internal. I see there have been some discussions on Shaolin so i am now trying to catch up on reading them. But first i have to take the time to back theym up because it looks like they might roll off the database.
In the maeantime any one have something to say on this?
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Plastic Squirrel/
"all true shaolin kung fu is (yi jin jing, xi sui jing, ba duan jin)"
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Hawk catches Sparrow


CSC(chinese shaolin center) manual.... I live by a CSC studio, its on N. Latah, I practice with the senior students there, and its difrent then what other internal practices as shown me.
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So what is true Shaolin Kung Fu? Even the
chinese government says it doesn't know for sure in one of the foreignlang press official books "an ancient form of long fist" is their definition. When they decided the monks could come back from the fields (literally) what was left of memories and books that could really say?
I have a feeling that things coming out of shaolin right now like "shaolin mantis" are being invented. I saw various Shaolin Pai's practising in Luoyang and they seemed to have a distintinctive style. The postures of Shaolin pai seem both beautiful and functional. However, i don't think Shaolin is a comprehensive Pai, it seems such as a foundation for many many other pais, it just doesnt seem so. I would suspect mostly they are re-inventing the pai,maybeto make it that way as perhaps all realy was lost in historical recording? Like that famous all-style painting in Shaolin is beautiful but doesn't prove
too much other than it is a painting and it is less than 100 years old.

Hawkcatchessparrow. ...
I think perhaps your school might have a legitamate claim to using the name Shaolin if it is true that they used the name in the 1800's. and the lineage is true. But you claim derivation from South Shaolin and (i looked at the website) it doesn't look like a representation of many many syles of a comprehensive shaolin as claimed, it almost looks like there is a lack of circular, full-body, high and low as evidenced in the classical styles?.

[This message was edited by stumblefist on 11-05-00 at 08:04 AM.]

word
11-06-2000, 08:57 AM
SO WHAT IS IT WITH 'SHAOLIN?" PEOPLE TODAY JUST WANT TO LEARN WHAT THEY TEACH AT THE TEMPLE. TO ME IT'S NO SECRET. ANY STYLE OF NORTHERN SHAOLIN IS JUST AS GOOD AS THE SHIET THEY LEARN AT THE TEMPLE. CHOY LAY FUT, NORTHERN SHAOLIN, HUNG GAR, OR WING CHUN - THEY ALL ARE GREAT SYSTEMS. WHATEVER THEY TEACH AT THE TEMPLE IS NO DIFFERENT. IT'S NOTHING BETTER. THERE'S NO MYSTERY OR SECRET DEADLY TECHNIQUES ABOUT IT. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE BIG DEAL ABOUT IT IS. IT'S JUST AMERICANS WHO DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT KUNG FU, IT'S THEM THAT WANT TO GO TO THE TEMPLE AND LEARN 'SHAOLIN.''

Stumblefist
11-06-2000, 11:48 AM
Hey even Bruce Lee got an American Passport. You must be envious. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

phantom
11-06-2000, 10:05 PM
No offense, Word, but if you really mean what you say, then why are you so unimpressed with Kwong Wing Lam's Northern Shaolin?

word
11-07-2000, 10:39 AM
I dont understand your question. What i'm saying is that the shaolin temple kung fu is the same and just as good as any other style. People make it seem like shaolin temple kung fu seeem so great. People think there is a mystery to kung fu. LOOK at that DIM MAK= VODOO post. There are 2000 views! The good kung fu practioner wouldn't even look at that post. They wouldn't look at anything YOU post Phantom, humble warrior, curious. Most things that you post are silly questions that I don't click on. People today want to see drunken styles, pressure points, monkey style, animals, dim mak and all that stuff.

There is nothing wrong with the style that wing lam teaches. It's just that wing lam isn't a high caliber teacher. I don't care if he has shaolin temple certificates and credentials. When it comes down to it, his applications are way off and his coordination is not up there.

Stumblefist
11-07-2000, 11:02 AM
The topic is "what is Real Shaolin'? That is: how is it identified as to practices, theory, movements, signatures, range and scope. The myth is that everything came from shaolin, when actually the reverse maybe true, as many masters may have visited Shaolin. Modern Shaolin does not look like a collection of many, many styles, nor a foundation for all other styles internal and external, but simply a separate style with its own signature.So what was "real Shaolin" both inside and outside of the temple before 1930 and what is left of it in memory or record? I suspect at the temple now most of it is being re-invented.???
Are you fellows saying that there are other systems outside the temple now that are real shaolin. If so how is that judgement assessed to be true? They could be just systems that developed outside of shaolin and recently at that.

phantom
11-07-2000, 09:33 PM
Qoute: "They wouldn't look at anything YOU post, phantom, humblewarrior, Curious. Most of your posts are just silly questions that I do not even click on".

Hmmmm. It seems to me that many other chat members here have asked questions that are similiar to many of mine. I just post more frequently and on a wider variety of topics. Unlike yourself, I do not have any intention of intentonally annoying people. I am just GENUINELY interested in many different styles and training methods. Btw, if you look at my previous posts, YOU HAVE REPLIED to a fair number of them. If you look back at your posts, you will notice that I hardly ever reply to yours. Talk about silly, the majority of your posts are just you bashing sifu's and styles. They bring nothing positve or of value to this forum whatsoever. You speak out against drunken styles, dim mak, pressure points, and animal styles. Well, it seems to me that the majority of kung fu styles have one of more of these aspects to them. And you honestly expect us to trust your judgement of sifu's and styles? Give me a break! Just what sifu's and styles do you actually LIKE? Peace

phantom
11-07-2000, 09:42 PM
Btw, Choy li fut and Hung Gar have animal techniques in them. Choy lif fut also has a drunken style in it. So, you are obviously a fountain of contradictions.

Kung Lek
11-07-2000, 10:03 PM
Not to mention, Choy Li Fut, Hung Gar, Wing Chun are all "Shaolin" based styles.

just to set that part straight.

peace

Kung Lek

Stumblefist
11-08-2000, 03:18 PM
anybody care to post on the topic?

omegapoint
11-11-2000, 01:07 PM
If you are asking if there are any traditional Shaolin styles being taught today, then I would say, " yes, but not in the traditional sense ". If on the other hand, you are inquiring " do all Eastern martial styles have their roots in the Shaolin tradition ? "; then the answer is obvious- "Yes" . There are a few legitimate Shaolin based systems out there (Okinawan/Chinese Kenpo, Shorin Ryu, Goju Ryu), and many Chinese systems that carry on the Northern and Southern school's tradition. For more history about Fo Tuo and Bhoddhidharma's legacy see: www.spheral.com/alma/martial/texts/sal01.html (http://www.spheral.com/alma/martial/texts/sal01.html)
P.S.: WuShu is not Shaolin Chuan Fa in its purest form and is more competition/exhibition oriented; Although it is represented as the Shaolin Way, its genesis is a fairly recent phenomenon.


Later Warriors !!!

HuangKaiVun
11-11-2000, 03:41 PM
The whole point of Buddhism is to learn to SAVOR every waking moment as if it were your last and to APPRECIATE everything you are dealing with("the good, the bad, the ugly).

What makes Shaolin kung fu (or any fighting style, including BJJ and Western boxing) great is that they teach the lessons above.

I would go so far to say as ANYBODY who has become more openminded and selfaware as a result of practice IS practicing "Shaolin kung fu" to an extent.

count
11-11-2000, 04:10 PM
Now that's the shoalin spirit (with the exception of getting stuck on your caps lock key).

Shadow Tiger
11-12-2000, 06:31 PM
It may be a rumor or BS but didn't the Chinese Government Close down the first Shaolin Temple then reopened it like 100 years later. So technically traditional Shaolin Died out and whats practiced today is what survived. So there is a good chance there are still Shaolin Secrets that are lost for all time or atleast heald secret by a sellect few.

Shaolin Master
11-13-2000, 12:55 AM
This is True Shaolin

" "

/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Understand

Thought so

Regards
Shi Chan Long

reemul
11-14-2000, 02:27 PM
The Shaolin monks did not "return from the fields", ok may 1 or two, but most of the masters
left the country. What is mainly practiced at the Shaolin temple is contemporary Wushu(sport), and perhaps a fragment or two of actual Shaolin kung fu. The Chinese government was opposed to organizations such as Shaolin Temple because, the
Shaolin temple was controlled by aristocratic families, who had maintained lineage for centuries, some since the time Bodhi Dharma showed up. This is why the government tried to assassinate the masters of these families. The shaolin are secretive in that they train only those who truly wish to persue Shaolin tradition. But not everyone who claims to be shaolin in the yellow pages is lagit, they are more often not. Shaolin, do not open franchises with the intent to sellout their tradition, It is more important to have a competent successors than to make a buck