A little bit disillusioned/down-hearted....some honest advice please?

[Mizong_Kid]

well i am pretty sure not everyone in the world is able to do kung fu.so many things are required....speed,strength,stealth,grace,flexibili ty,physical build,mental attitude......and many more i am sure.

e.g its unlikely a plum/slightly overweight fella is gona pull off a butterfly kick or kip up. the same can be said if a fella is too skinny.

but we are all limited to what we can achieve by our own physical build or limitations. so indefinitely there will always be somethings in kung fu we just cannot do at all or will not do it well at all!

i just got a little bit down-hearted when my teacher said he did not think i would be able to perform a butterfly kick....simply due to physical reasons.(i.e i am very skinny)

have any of you gone through patches like this while training.....thinking whether you are able to hold your own or not and be the best you can be at kung fu????

:( tho when i goto my next class i intend to perform my form with much greater desire now

[dezhen2001]

hey buddy :)

happens to all of us... sometimes Sifu says something to test me and see what my response is. i wouldnt worry too much, its good that it has made u wanna train even harder - prove everyone wrong! if u know u can do it, then do it :)

its like if someone knocks me down in sparring, i would get back up and work even harder to make sure he doesnt get me like that again.

Actually something i realised... kung fu is a set of principles which can be adapted to everyone... eg. the way i do wing chun is not the same as my sihing as hes arouns 5 inches shorter but rounder and heavier, others are taller and have much longer arms than me but it still works - just a different character.

btw im 5'10" and 150lbs and i can do a butterfly kick ok - so why not you? :)

keep going and u will be just fine.
dawood

[yenhoi]

Just practice the butterfly kick.

Easier said then done.

:eek:

[Crimson Phoenix]

prove him wrong...most of the guys from chinese wushu teams are not exactly beasts of muscle either...

[Empty Fist]

There is an old Zen saying "there are no limitations for the person who refuses to accept them." My physical limitations were my hands. I was diagnosed with carpal tunnel syndrome a year and a half ago. The doctor wanted to perform surgery on both of my hands. I said no thanks. I started taking Tai Chi Chuan. Started learning the form. At the time, Push Hands was out of the questions because my hands were swollen and I was in a great deal of pain but I was determined to eventually learn how do Push Hands. Today, my hands are a lot better. I started doing Push Hands several months ago with out any problems. Bottom line if you put your mind to it there is nothing you can't accomplish.

[Xebsball]

I cant do the butterfly thing either. Actually i could, but quite low in height.
Doesnt matter cos i throw punches and stuff, im all bout them punches, punch punch punch.

Work hard and you sure will be able to do the butterfly kick and whatever else from cma you want, but id recomend you to focus on whats more important, wich are the basic fighting skills.

[TkdWarrior]

one of my freind now can do 360 turning jump kick n he weighs around 120 kgs(this is not a lie, n i can't do this kick) ppl hav said he cannot even kick even at stomach hieght but his kicks comes at my throat(i m 5,10)
he luvs flying stuff n he never let his weight factor get involve in it...
i think it's just mind over matter...my freind
easier said than done
-TkdWarrior-

[rogue]

Take up dance or gymnastics. Or you could take up a fight sport.

[Royal Dragon]

How can being skinny hold you back for a butterfly kick?? If anything, it should HELP because you are light, and need less strength to acheive more hieght.

If you don't have the power or strength now, then just grow stronger. :D

This can be accomplished through a wide variety of training methods avaliable to the Kung Fu enthusiest.

[ZIM]

And more time and training. Work on your flexibility, lean musclr strength, balance through intense stance work.

A quote for the kind of attitude you need:

" "I'm going to break the Prophesy," he cried in a loud voice, "I am going to defy the omens of my doom and make fun of my evil star. Those who have called me a failure shall own I have succeeded where all humanity has failed. The real hero is not he who is bold enough to fulfill the predictions, but he who is bold enough to falsify them." "
-G K Chesterton, Tales of the Long Bow

[SevenStar]

That doesn't sound right to me - I've seen several skinny guys bo butterfly kicks. And as foar as heavy guys, look at sammo hung. Heck, I usually weigh in the 220 area and I can do a butterfly and a tornado kick (landing with one leg too) Well, I probably can't now, since I'm not doing longfist anymore, but I still practice jumping and spinning kicks on occasion and have no problem with them. I was even one of the most flexible kickers in the class. Just work for it. You can do it.

[Cody]

a very important issue.

You know, we are all individuals, with limitations and strengths. Often people go into this endeavor without knowing the extent of what they are. That is part of the wonder of training. To be completely open to what you can do if you want to with your whole heart. You also need to know when to stop and respect a limitation for what it is. The name of this game is Compensation. If you can't get the job done one way, see what else surfaces. Not everything is worth the effort, not every move. When I say this I mean it from the point of view of a handicapped person, or of a healthy person who feels compelled to fit into a mold which is not his to fill. There are a lot of arts out there. It's a matter of who you are and what you have to give.

I think it can be very hard to know when a teacher has your best interests at heart (You can do it!!!, or You'll never make the grade if you don't try harder and it's your call!). Sometimes discouragement is meant to be discouraging because of the teacher's priorities, or he can see that your efforts would be better put to pursuing other kinds of moves (maybe another style altogether). I am confused by the concept of a skinny student not being able to kick. Where does that come from? These are things you have to find out for yourself. If you are not otherwise handicapped, it's a matter of learning proper body mechanics and then putting them together. There is no shame in needing step-by-step training in this. On the other hand, kicking might not be your forte, and the teacher might be just trying to make you work harder or to discourage you altogether.

I would get clarification. It is one thing to be discouraged by a teacher, and another to have reached a kind of plateau in the training, where you need to change your way of moving, and maybe your way of thinking.

I know of the wonders of KF training and how they can work physical miracles. A teacher can help you to reclaim your life; he can also cripple you. Both kinds are out there. In the middle are those who just want to teach their systems to those who can pick them up with not too much strain on the part of the teacher. It's hard to know what you've got until it is tested, in terms of yourself, and in the teacher.

I would caution you against continuing to move in ways that fail, or in doing so with increased force or speed such that you might incur injury.

Your intent to perform what you can do with more enthusiasm could make all the difference. Do what you can the best you can and see what happens.

[Brad]

i just got a little bit down-hearted when my teacher said he did not think i would be able to perform a butterfly kick....simply due to physical reasons.(i.e i am very skinny)
It's BS. Unless you have some kind of real physical disability, you CAN do a butterfly kick. Sorry, I'm not trying to be disrespectful too your teacher, but if his only reason is that you're too skinny, then he's 100% wrong.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

the only thing that would disenhearten me is if i couldnt kick my own ass from 3 months ago.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

.... and i just realized im at that point again. i'd slap that little chemo bi tch around. scrawnly little cancer whor es make me sick.

[ricksitterly]

If your instructor really said that, mizong, he is an idiot (and a real jerk). You should maybe think about changing schools if you're getting that kind of advice. I remember when I was around 15 yrs old I only weighed about 130 and I had some pretty wicked spinning / combo kicks in the air. Now that I'm a bit heavier those kicks aren't so easy anymore. I also can't jump quite as high as I could when I was lighter. I could go on and on about how being light is a huge advantage when it comes to developing advanced kicks (like the butterfly kick) but I would rather just show you these links.

http://www.geocities.com/ox_pasture/T720d.html

http://galileo.spaceports.com/~matricks/Multimedia_Ktigers.html

notice how big and heavy these guys are lol
Lighter guys, in general, tend to be much faster with their MA techniques.

Anyways what's the big deal? Exactly what use are these fancy kicks gonna be to you in a fight? You should master the basics first mizong.

[Laughing Cow]

Just adding to the chorus.

There shouldn't be anything holding you back from doing such a kick or other things considered in the style.

As Dawood said often Sifu gives you an asnwer to eitehr gauge your response or to show you an area where you need to work more on.

Something simialr happened to me in the last class, Sifu said my stepping is worse than a drunken wood pegged sailor.
:D

He than asked me to demo in front of the class and the whole class after me.
End result he corrected about 2/3 of the class.
:p

Just take it as advise and a pointer to what you need more work harder on.

Not sure if your Sifu is asian or not, I find asian Sifu have a different method to relate things.

And here is my final viewpoint.
"When Sifu stops correcting me I get worried."

Heck he even jumps on some ouf long-time students 8+yrs for getting things (basics, etc) wrong.

[joedoe]

Is it really that important that you be able to do a butterfly kick? I personally avoid doing/learning too many aerial kicks as I am pretty sure I will never use them. However if it is really that important to you, then keep trying and show your instructor how wrong he was.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

"Sifu said my stepping is worse than a drunken wood pegged sailor."


lol ... ill never forget my second day of class. he showed me a spinning backfist and i guess i lifted my foot about knee hight when stepping. sifu immediately runs over and says "what the fu ck was that???? are you a ballerina? a little dancing sissy boy? step like a fu cking man"

i never stepped like that again. ever.

[Mizong_Kid]

thanks guys for the advice......

but i have decided to work harder on my forms and basic kicks.i think the butterfly kicks can wait awhile. you have to learn to crawl b4 u can walk......and indeed i shall do that! but i will start trying it out soon.

i dont think my teacher meant anything negative by it.....but i do know he doesnt teach it...i heard he think it is unpractical anyway.


after all the posts i do feel a lot better, i aint the only one in the struggle to be all you can be in the world of kung fu!

thanks everyone!

i just love this thing they call "kung fu" :D

[dezhen2001]

good man :)

well, if you ask me, working on the basics is most important... its through them u will build the foundation of structure, endurance and strength to be able to do the more advanced stuff.

in our school we do a northern system, it has jumping techniques but not as flashy as the wushu stuff :D I only know the basics, like stretching and basic jumping exercises and kicks... and really just doing them each day helps me get lighter on my feet and improve my balance. just through repeated practise i can now pretty much always do a decent butterfly kick, and i basically taught myself from watching others, then training in my own time :p

build your foundation, you already have the right mindset u need in this business, so just keep going and you will get there im sure :)

Laughing Cow: agreed... my Sifu and Sigung teache differently to anyone i have trained under before... mostly it depends on YOU not them to progress... on your attitude (mindset), self discipline and how much you practise and understand things. its all from you, which is what trianing develops.

keep going - i think this is something that happens to everyone, and we all have to work through it to get better :)

dawood

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by dezhen2001
Laughing Cow: agreed... my Sifu and Sigung teache differently to anyone i have trained under before... mostly it depends on YOU not them to progress... on your attitude (mindset), self discipline and how much you practise and understand things. its all from you, which is what trianing develops.

Yeah, the same with us.

Sifu will teach anybody who walks in through the door, if you show the correct attitude and behaviour than you might get taught some stuff not shown to everybody.

It is up to YOU to make sure you learn and understand what he teaches.

Example:
I got there earlier on Saturday and me and a another student did a bit of Zhang Zhuang. Sifu came over anc checked our poses, Qi flow and gave corrections and taught us a few things for about 20 minutes before class started.

He also knows that I am interested in the martial side more than other students and showed me multiple applications for "Cloud Hands" for defense, attacking, locks and a throw.

Later during Tui Shou practice he demoed 3 different "throws" from the same postion.

After training we all went for Supper together and Sifu explained/showed to us why him and his brothers form differed even saw it is the same form, movements and sequence.

Many things are done to check how serious the students are in their training, you are tested more often than you realise.

If you put in the effort, you will get to see and learn many things.

[dezhen2001]

thats what makes training so interesting :)

i find taijiquan and wing chun interesting because so many peiople have the skill, just express it outwardly a bit differently. at leats taijiquan doesnt have the bickering wing chun has :p

dawood

[Chang Style Novice]

I'm such a d0rk - what's a butterfly kick?

[Laughing Cow]

Butterfly kick I (http://www.neokarate.net/lingo/term/butterflykick.asp)

Butterfly kick II (http://www.geocities.com/ox_pasture/Tbfkick.html)

[Chang Style Novice]

Thanks, hahamoo.

We don't have that stuff in tai chi mixed with shuai chiao!

[Laughing Cow]

CSN.

We don't do it either.

Closest would be the "Double heel kick", but I don't think it is commonly taught this days.

Most people say this move violates TJQ principles as both feet are of the ground.
:D

[Chang Style Novice]

plus, you're like, running BACKWARD? at the target of the kick. Then ducking your head almost to the ground right before letting it fly?

Sounds like a good way to get your ass kicked, both literally and figuratively!

[dezhen2001]

i know which movement u mean LC :D seems to fit in to Chen taijiquan just fine, but some say its not TJQ anyway ;)

as for the kick, the 2nd link is good but that looks different to our... we dont have the run up and backward slide. if we have left leg forwards we would just launch by bringing the right leg round... no run up or twist at all. Also when we land its in a proper stance and we continue the form. that doesnt mean i always can do that though :p

dawood

[Serpent]

A butterfly kick is completely useless in actual combat, but it does have some merit as a gymnastic technique. It does take a fair amount of strength and flexibility to pull off a good one. However, you have to ask yourself, "In the time it's taken me to perfect my butterfly kick, what else could I have perfected that actually has an application?"

Although, the movie Crying Freeman was on tv last night. In it Mark Damascos (?) does a butterfly kick and it's shown in slo-mo. The only thing that the slo-mo really highlighted was how long the bad guy had to stand there with his chin sticking out to make it look like the kick connected! Anyway, my point is that you might get some movie work if your aerials are good. ;)

[Serpent]

Don't you hate it when you have to explain your own points in the same post cos you're so tangentially challenged.

*sigh*

[dezhen2001]

been a long day huh? :D
good movie btw.

dawood

[Serpent]

Yeah it is a good movie.

Not so much a long day as a long weekend and it's only just started. I know I'm not the only one with a burning ache in my shoulders, the smoke of firecrackers up my nose and the constant beat of sum sing ringing through my hindbrain.

And still a week to go! Ah, such a love/hate time of year!

[dezhen2001]

were you doing some lion dancing? :confused:

well im actually trying to work out and post here on my breaks from doing sets :D considering its almost 3am im not doing too bad... couldnt sleep but im sure i will after this.

dawood

[Serpent]

Originally posted by dezhen2001
were you doing some lion dancing? :confused:


No, mate. I did a thousand push-ups while sniffing firecrackers to a tape of "Chinese Drum Greats 1901 - Present".

;)

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Serpent
A butterfly kick is completely useless in actual combat, but it does have some merit as a gymnastic technique. It does take a fair amount of strength and flexibility to pull off a good one. However, you have to ask yourself, "In the time it's taken me to perfect my butterfly kick, what else could I have perfected that actually has an application?"

Although, the movie Crying Freeman was on tv last night. In it Mark Damascos (?) does a butterfly kick and it's shown in slo-mo. The only thing that the slo-mo really highlighted was how long the bad guy had to stand there with his chin sticking out to make it look like the kick connected! Anyway, my point is that you might get some movie work if your aerials are good. ;)

I've got the crying freeman anime, but I didn't know they made a movie out of it. Freeman was an assassin, he'd never do a butterfly kick... He was acrobatic in the anime, but he was mostly grounded while fighting, except for when he had the blade between his toes.

As for the butterfly kick, it's not completely useless - think about a staff or sword being swung at your knees... I personally wouldn't attempt it, but it has its uses.

[dezhen2001]

whereabouts coz some friends went to some temple thing on friday night? maybe they saw ur team there? :)

dawood

[Serpent]

Maybe they did.

;)

[dezhen2001]

very mysterious :p

dawood

[TaoBoy]

I suggest Tae Bo. It will make you an amazing martial artist in no time. :D

Chin up, practice, be positive and all that jazz.

[Crimson Phoenix]

The butterfly kick can be used in combat. Or maybe I should say I used it successfully in a savate ring. I'm not speaking about the useless wushu one BTW. Nevertheless, there are at least 1253 moves I can think of on my priority list before wondering "hmm, it might be time to pull a butterfly"...

Serpent, what he did in the movie is not a butterfly kick, but a butterfly TWIST. It's not the same

7*, it's a great movie...from the same guy who did Brotherhood of the Wolves...(yup, French heheheheheh). It was his first real movie (before he just did some short ones). I'm sure you'll like it, it's very stylish...

[Losttrak]

Dewd... Did an assistant instructor tell you this? Or did your sifu? Thats complete BS. Our entire kids team is nuttin but skin and bones and they do butterfly kicks beautifully. Maybe he was just trying to **** you off. My sifu said that a 6'5" guy couldnt do an aerial and I was sooo ****ed I did one right there in front of him... Havent been able to do one since... but thats not the point lol (not really trying tho either). Anyways, you can do any of the moves... its not about body type.. its about practice and timing.