52/Jail House Rock..Does it exist?

[Golden Arms]

52/Jail House Rock..Does it exist?

I think I may never find a definitive answer to this question, but regardless its a cool idea. Anyone familiar with it, and if so, please post replies!

[Serpent]

Is this an Elvis Presley question or am I totally missing the point?

[Golden Arms]

LOL..Jail House Rock is supposed to be a fighting system passed around in prisons, and never talked about. Mike Tyson is alleged to know some....Its also talked about in some wu tang songs..as "52 hand blocks' or the 52.

[Serpent]

Interesting.

Anyone?

Bueller?

[Golden Arms]

Only real link I could find to anything on it..the techiques look legit enough..check it out.

http://www.geocities.com/delasalas2000/combatives.html

[Stranger]

http://go.to/stickgrappler

This website has more info on the topic than any other I know of.

[JusticeZero]

From what i've heard, there are quite a few good reasons why there is no such thing. Prisons aren't a bad VanDamme movie; fighting just gets you killed. The defense is being respectful and not making enemies. Most of what you hear about the 'art' is a bit kooky and the techniqies look ill suited for the threats that it is supposedly designed to face.

[SevenStar]

not at all. The techs of jailhouse rock - from a southern standpoint anyway (there are various styles, from region to region - jailhouse, 52, knockin and kickin, etc) are not too different from capoeira infighting - elbows, heabdbutts, etc. And yes, fighting gets you killed but happens regardless. I know several jailers who will attest to that.

[ShaolinTiger00]

myth.

[Suntzu]

52 hand blocks… IMO… is a generic term for ' some sh!t my cousin taught me in the living room'… all this 'you can only learn it in jail'… or… 'you can only be black to have it passed down to you'… is some bull… but it is Black History Month…

[Tvebak]

I think that people would very much like to belive in the existence of a superiour black power system kept hidden...i dont think it exist in that form...some idiot would have learned it and made a MCJailhousrock school by now...
however i do not doubt that there has been developed many different more or less effective arts in prison...i have a friend who was in an american prison and he learned som simple but very reliable things in there.
Also i cant help to draw a comparision to my fathers older brother (who saddly is dead) who came home after a few years at sea and suddently was a hell of a fighter, my father has learned one very nice armlock from him...so in all sorts of places there is MA...not big and famous styles but people who hang out and share knowedge.
I wish i had been a bit older when my uncle was alive so i could have asked him about the things he learned.

[planetwc]

Rorion Gracie and some dude who did Jailhouse Rock were the figthing consultants on the first Lethal Weapon movie.

[Stranger]

Dennis Newsome was a fight choreographer for Lethal Weapon.

[Golden Arms]

Cool, thx for the input so far. I figured it at least possible that someone in there would have some good close quarters fighting tricks up their sleeves. It may not be the end all of martial arts, or even a system so to speak, but I am always curious about different forms of fighting movement. Also, I have heard 2 different older school guys refer to BJJ as a system that is based off of similar concepts to the python. Opinions?

[JusticeZero]

Dennis Newsome is.... uhm.... well... He does seem to be able to kick !!! pretty effectively, but he's more than a bit INfamous in the Capoeira world. Lots of allegations of excessive violence combined with allegations of intense Afrocentrism and a few other odd bits. I really couldn't say anything to most of it - I don't pretend to know more than what I got in conversations with one of his students once - but nonetheless, the guy has a rep.

[ricksitterly]

At first, I thought this post was a joke intended to mock all the freakin "does the _________ exist in combat" threads. They truly deserve to be mocked, I might add. Anyhow this really got me thinking. Does a system of fighting exist in proson? Absolutely not. However, does incarceration yeild dangerous fighters? Absolutely.

It's not so much that you have the "opportunity" to share fighting concepts with other inmates (which I highly doubt), but rather it is the immense amount of time you spend alone in a cell with no one BUT yourself (or maybe 1 cell mate). I know several people who have done time for one reason or another. None of them did more than 6 months, however when they came out they were much more dangerous than when they were put in. My friend Mike told me that during his 3 months of being locked up, he had practically nothing to do. The only way to occupy himself was to either work out or read (or write - as he was allowed a pad and paper). Depending on where the person is locked up, they may or may not be provided with weight lifting equipment. Anyways, getting back to the point, regardless of what equipment they have to work with (even if it's just push ups/ sit ups/ pull ups), these men have little else to worry about so they can basically design any workout schedule they want. I truly believe that some of the most deadly fighters in the country are those that are imprisoned for years with nothing to do but train. These men can (and surely some do), practice punches and kicks for hours on end, on a daily basis.

I remember there was a bum I kind of got to know on my street and then one winter he disappeared. Four months later I saw him on the street and hardly recognized him. He was freakin ripped!! I said "what the he!l happened to you?". He told me he committed a crime so that he could spend the winter in jail and not freeze. Also, he said while he was there, he had nothing to worry about. And that he did a lot of "soul searching". He was provided food, clothing, and shelter. I swear this guy must have gained 20 pounds and was totally buff. I guess there's one guy who turned jail into a success story.

Before you all bite my head off, I'm NOT saying that jail is a good place to be. I've read about what inmates go through and how they're treated, and I feel that it's inhuman. From what I've read about and studied, if you show any sign of weakness, you are almost sure to be beaten or raped as part of an "initiation". Men who are young, white, and lighter than about 170 pounds are commonly made into someone's b*tch. The guards and supervisors do very little if someone complains of abuse ( either being beaten half to death or whatever ). So it only makes sense that learning to defend youself becomes an almost MANDATORY skill for survival. I find it hard to believe that in these times of advanced civilization, there still exists such barbaric living conditions. Some say "so what, they're criminals", but not all of them are in for violent crimes.

Anyways, in my opinion, I don't think much grappling is practiced in jail/prison. I dont think there is any system of fighting being spread in jail either. However, keep in mind that jail is the home/destination of violent citizens, so many of them can fight to begin with. If I was locked up with a cell mate for years I would probably teach him some techniques (not that i ever plan to go there :) ). Indeed many people are angry with the prison system as it is proven to make criminals more dangerous... it definetly isnt an environment that easily promotes creating better citizens ready to re-enter society... which it theoretically should.

[SevenStar]

nah, not grappling, infighting. I'd guess some knife work. When you think about it, it's not so hard to believe. Alot of the gang bangers I knew used to box. alot of the trouble makers I know used to wrestle. If many of them end up in jail and are provided with time to work out....

Anyway, from what I hear, it exists. I don't care enough about it to really research it myself though.

[ricksitterly]

lol yeah, i imagine a style founded in jail would be sooooo deep and enlightening

[carly]

the technique shown was mainly this - it was designed for fighting ina small cell/space - duck down a little and lean forward, put your hands open over your ears and your elbows up to protect your head and face, and hook inward left and right with the inside of your elbows against your opponent's head.

[Black Jack]

I don't believe there are any specific gang or prison styles of h2h but more a dangerous grasp of learning how to hurt your fellow man through any means possible.

Style loyality is a bogus term and it means nothing to violent criminals, they use whatever works with a killers mentality, just get the job done. I do believe that a person can learn a vast amount of real world psychological and physical protection data by learning about prison fights, shankings, and the like.

There is a book on Folsom knife fighting tactics that I hear is very interesting.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by carly
the technique shown was mainly this - it was designed for fighting ina small cell/space - duck down a little and lean forward, put your hands open over your ears and your elbows up to protect your head and face, and hook inward left and right with the inside of your elbows against your opponent's head.

I was shown something similar to that also.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Black Jack
I don't believe there are any specific gang or prison styles of h2h but more a dangerous grasp of learning how to hurt your fellow man through any means possible.

Style loyality is a bogus term and it means nothing to violent criminals, they use whatever works with a killers mentality, just get the job done. I do believe that a person can learn a vast amount of real world psychological and physical protection data by learning about prison fights, shankings, and the like.

There is a book on Folsom knife fighting tactics that I hear is very interesting.

Yeah, that's more along the lines of what I'm getting at. That's also why you can't really trace it.