Robert Fleming?

[7kicks]

Wanted to know if anyone knows of Robert Fleming in the new hampshire area? Also would like to know if he still teaches or if he teaches privately? Any info would be appreciated I am looking for a place to train.

[18elders]

Did he used to do wah lum?
If it is him may know how to get a message to him

[7kicks]

Yes I think he did teach wah lum and was very good at it from what I was told. Any info would be great...Thank you

[18elders]

He posts on this forum under the id name flem. Hopefully it is the same guy you are looking for. You can pm him

[7kicks]

I looked him up but he does not include pm in his profile nor does he accept e-mails. Thanks for your help

[spiralstair]

7 Kicks,

You could train with Gary Keating And Mike Kalendarian, Wah Lum instructors who took over Sifu Johnson's old school in Concord, Mass. It's about 30 minutes south of Nashua. They are kind of 'hard core' guys who like to work the 'applications'. Their # is 978 371 0222. Good luck.

[18elders]

try messaging Art D, i think he has contacted him before?

[Drunk mantis]

dont know him

[7kicks]

Spiralstair,

I went to the concord school a couple of years ago and met the 2 students who took over the school, this is what happened. I was invited to the school to watch a class and was told that there were openings for new students, I drove 40 minutes to get there and stayed about an hour and was ready to start my training. After class for some odd reason they no longer had any openings in the adult evening class after being told there was!! I got the feeling that they picked and choosed who they wanted to train. I also told them I had experience in the past in wah lum and gave them some names of past instructors they actually checked my story out to see if I was lying to them. Very strange behavior. What I viewed in the class they were giving were 2 what seemed to be stuck on themselves junior instructors. maybe things have changed but I was left with a bad taste.

[Frogman]

RibHit
fm

[7kicks]

Frogman,

Yes this was the Wah Lum school in Concord MA.

[spiralstair]

7 Kicks,

Well , at least I had one thing right...the travel time from southern N.H...

It's not so strange to check on a new student's story, sometimes one can unknowingly step deep into a fellow sifu's student relationship troubles by taking their student's story at face value...though it is kinda wierd to open the door, and then close it, all in one night.

My sense when I met them was they were pretty good guys, and long term practitioners...

Anyway, good luck.

[yu shan]

Is Shrfu Johnson`s first name Mike? If so, a straight-up guy. As for the fellows that took over, did they test with Master P. Chan? Anyway, atleast they "try" to figure out the applications, more than I can say for most in WL. One exception is Shrfu D. Scott who, for the most part, has the drive to learn the Martial aspect of WL. Good luck on that, a GrandTeacher in your style needs to pass on these treasures. If P. Chan knows the applications to this hybrid system known as Wal Lum. Why is it left up to the student and Teacher to "figure" out the applications? Shoudnt this be taught to you? WL being a Northern Praying Mantis Style is a joke.

Flem are you out there?

[spiralstair]

yu shan,

some people are better served by seeking answers on their own... they can handle information in chunks, and develop themselves through the traditional attributes of hard work, loyalty, and perserverence.

other people are better served by having their information 'pre-digested', served Gerber style without any 'chewing' left to do.
Different strokes for different folks.
Only thing is, it doesn't seem to be O.K. with you that there is a way different then yours...and it's the WL way.
Time to let it go...no?

[7kicks]

Unfortunately there are a few of those WL schools out there where no practical apps are taught only forms. But I have seen some that really get into the combat application of WL. I think in general WL is not the only style that suffers from this but all styles do. Anyway I like the style it has alot to offer.

[NorthernMantis]

7 kicks is correct. You will always have good schools and bad schools of any style.

Yu Shan I have no qualms with you since you are really nice guy but I take offense to that remark as my system being a joke. I have met people of other "truer" mantis styles who didn't know squat about their applications and you didn't see me saying that their styles are a joke.

Don't misunderstand me as I don't look for trouble but I don't aprreciate people saying that my chosen style is a joke , that my grandmaster holds back or doesn't know what he teaches. It's obvious that at some level you and some others hold resentment since most, if not all, subjects about wah lum always end up revolving about how si gung doesn't teach the real deal and how wah lum isn't efficient. That in turn makes you look bad wether you know it or not and it's not proper wu de. Whatever personall problems you might have had need move on.

I think it's great that you found someting that you love but please don't put down other styles and their variants....we have enough of that in the martial arts i.e. wing chun. If you are willing to let people know about the things that you have learned then go a head. There's nothing wrong with wanting to share knownledge but please do it in a respcetful way.


Only thing is, it doesn't seem to be O.K. with you that there is a way different then yours...and it's the WL way. Time to let it go...no?

Like spiral said, let it go and move on.

Thank you

[Siuhoimoon]

Guys, I don't want to be rude, but I think this "wl is a joke" thing has already gone too far.
Something that I noticed in this forum is that just a few of you have something interesting to share with others, and care to do this in a polite manner. Tainan Mantis, Hualin Laoshi, ArtD, and a few others are always reasonable and polite in their posts; they don't go out saying "my style is the best, your style sucks".
I think that if you don't have nothing good to say, it's better to keep your mouth shut.
Sincerely, just because WL didn't fill your expectations is no excuse for you to go out saying that this is a fake system, with a fake master. And, obviously, this statements aren't true. Otherwise, MC wouldn't be so respected by others masters and grandmasters.
Sorry for the bitter words.

Siuhoimoon

[yu shan]

It is humorous to me how easily WL folks get emotionally disturbed when the "application part of their training" is brought up. Oh let`s seek the answer`s on our own...and later get our heads bashed in! Because that is inevitable, especially with this mentality. The true treasures need to be handed down, then you can go off, and be creative! It is unfortunate that WL folks are not being taught the fighting, but are expected to re-invent the wheel. You can talk all you want about this polite stuff. Do you not want to learn the wisdom of the Ancients?

By the way, this Flem is a group of folks...rather funny.

NM

I talk about your style, because it forms a false euphoria. You are very young, you will see. Why are WL folks so closed-minded? This is due to insecurity. And why are so many leaving or sitting in the middle of the fence? Take a bus ride to Tampa, and see for yourself...

I pity those not taught the good stuff!

[Frogman]

Good or bad is a mater of perspective. My Sifu has an application class I don’t usually attend but that’s by choice and schedule, but I certainly feel like I have enough technique to defend myself. More importantly have the good sense to avoid or defuse and bad situation.
:p
RibHit
fm

[spiralstair]

yu shan wrote,


I pity those not taught the good stuff!

....self-pitying...,huh?

and you've told us your WL sifus didn't teach YOU the good stuff.

ahhh...maybe they were psychic.

you sound happy with your new style for now... though not quite happy enough with the present to let go of the past...maybe you have'nt learned the applications yet to dealing with the internal opposition of self -defeating behavior...sort of like a ling side to psychology.

[7kicks]

O.k. we all have been thru this WL bashing do we have to repeat history. This is not a WL bashing thread I just want to get some info. I just want to say we all know there is good and bad in all styles, and alot depends on the sifu's a good sifu can take **** and turn it into gold and vice versa. Now can we get back on track and try to help me find this person. I know this much he did run a school in Manchester N.H. at one time. Thank You all.....

[woliveri]

Emotional responses to one's "style" is equivilant to discussing Politics or Religion. Perhaps there should be another word added such as: Don't talk about Politics, Religion, or MA Styles at partys or gatherings.

Those who don't get emotional either know the truth and don't care what's being said or don't know the truth. There is only the truth. For example, Religion is an empty shell of mechanical practices which followers will fight to the death for (as we see around the world) but the truth is the same to all people and cannot be argued over.

[NorthernMantis]

Originally posted by yu shan
It is humorous to me how easily WL folks get emotionally disturbed when the "application part of their training" is brought up.

NM

I talk about your style, because it forms a false euphoria. You are very young, you will see. Why are WL folks so closed-minded? This is due to insecurity. And why are so many leaving or sitting in the middle of the fence? Take a bus ride to Tampa, and see for yourself...

I pity those not taught the good stuff!

Ok I'm not gonna let this turn into a flame war or anything like that but I will say this...

1) Maybe I didn't make myself clear in my last post but it was the fact that you said that my system was a joke or that you say that it is inneficient that got me "emotionally distrurbed", including a few other things. I didn't even care or notice that you said anything applications.

2) I have worked out with a few proefficient mantis practitioners of different families before so you can save your pity. Also I welcome all styles and I'm more than willing always to compare and trade hands to learn wether I lose or not.

3) Lastly you don't need to boast anymore about how you have the "good stuff" as I have already seen Pong Lai (the kfo member) and I was left with a good impression of him and earned my admiration and respect.

I might ask the same question about insecurity to the ones who will always want to bring up the same old story about how wl applications aren't taught. If they are so happy with their style then they don't need say other peoples sytles are a joke. I fyou want to compare ways of training I don't mind but you'll never see me ask if win chun doesn't teahc good applications and act like the victim.

This is what you say now...


It is humorous to me how easily WL folks get emotionally disturbed when the "application part of their training" is brought up.

This is what you said before...


WL being a Northern Praying Mantis Style is a joke.

Need I say more?

Thank you and have a good day.

[yu shan]

I do need to soften up my language, folks here get a bit testy. Are you going to be this huffy of the streets?

OK, now Northern Mantis, YOU need to research your style! We all know WL is a Hybrid Style, with a total southern influence. What part of this do you not understand?

I apologize for stating WL is a joke. WL will get you to the foothills of the mountain...

[BeiTangLang]

bicker between yourselves with PM or something. Back to the threads subject.

[18elders]

how's it going? YOu going to go to Nick Screma's tournament this year? I think it is in the end of March.
You can stay at our school if you need to, we have shower facilities and lots of room if you want to crash there.

[MArtist]

Originally posted by yu shan
I apologize for stating WL is a joke. WL will get you to the foothills of the mountain...

And Brazilan Jiu Jitsu, Boxing, Muay Thai, and wrestling will take you to the top of the mountain.

[yu shan]

Not necessarily. Does your mind get cluttered with all this cross-training? Only so many hours in a day for the Mantis practitioner, if your taught right...no need for this cross-training. And for this apology, trying to keep the smooth side up. That`s for all the Peace-niks on KFO, in our school, we believe in pugilism.

I question why you do not give info on your profile, a typical lack of courage. To me, if folks are gonna use KFO, they should give some background on "their" martial art(s) as in your case. Badminton has a Martial aspect, why not check it out? Might help you on your mountain quest.

[NorthernMantis]

BeiTangLang---

I didn't really see it as bickering (compared to how it was months ago) and wasn't planning on going on any longer. If you read carefully I you could see I wasn't bickering and I also complimented one of yu shan's contemporaries (classmate/sifu?). It's cool though so you don't have to worry abou tit.

18elders--

It's a very good chance that I will be able to go since I do have some money saved up.The sooner I can find out the exact date the better chance I have of going :) . Is John going to be there? I can still rember when he was performing. It was really cool for the most part but it really bothered me when I heard some people giggling during his form. On the other hand the tournament was mostly filled with southern schools so it's understandable that some people couldn't comprehend what he was doing. I will tell you this though, I bet he must have caught the internalists attention becuase his fa jing was up there.

yu shan


OK, now Northern Mantis, YOU need to research your style! We all know WL is a Hybrid Style, with a total southern influence. What part of this do you not understand?

What makes you think I don't understand?

I humbly accept your apology and I apologise if I came on too strong on my part. It's cool though. I know you're nice guy and I'm really thankfull for the wl shirt and uniform you sent me. I hope there's no harm done and we can sill be friends.

I hope that you didn't misunderstand and can probably see my point of view. I don't have anything againts anyone and I do undrstand that I need to learn how to properly take critique but no one likes their system to be labaled. I've been doing wl for a littler over 6 1/2 years now and I grew up along side my classmates and instructors who I learned to see as my family. I can't tell how comfortable Iam or the special moments that I have had in my style and see it as a great gift from God since it ahs hleped me out in differenent.

I guess I was wrong also on my part and didn't need to jump the gun like that. One thing for sure something like this wont happen again.

Oh and you didn't have to mention about getting over the mountain part, the apology was good enough. Rember all roads lead to the same place.:cool:

[18elders]

Not sure if John will be around then, he may be in taiwan.
I'll let you know.

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by yu shan
Not necessarily. Does your mind get cluttered with all this cross-training? Only so many hours in a day for the Mantis practitioner, if your taught right...no need for this cross-training. And for this apology, trying to keep the smooth side up. That`s for all the Peace-niks on KFO, in our school, we believe in pugilism.

I question why you do not give info on your profile, a typical lack of courage. To me, if folks are gonna use KFO, they should give some background on "their" martial art(s) as in your case. Badminton has a Martial aspect, why not check it out? Might help you on your mountain quest.

I think the point being made is that your backhanded comment about WL taking you to the foot of the mountain might be made towards your style by some of those who practice other combative systems.

I'm not sure he was even talking about training in all of those systems. However, as far as getting confused, as someone who trains in all of the things listed by MArtist, it's not confusing at all. Each one compliments the other. You will never get confused if you stick to methods that are realistic and effective.

[BeiTangLang]

This has gotten way of topic.
No mas.
Best Wishes,
~BTL