Arm/wrist locks in Wing Chun...

[monkey man]

Do any of the 'traditional' Wing Chun schools employ wrist or arm locks? There are certainly attacks to the joints - like tok sau with jut sau to lock out the elbow and maybe the circling hand to cut into an opponent's wrist (when they grab your own wrist) - but I've not really seen any locks used to control an opponent.

Wrist locks and arm bars would certainly compliment Wing Chun and I was wondering if anyone uses these as a structured part of their particular system?

[jesper]

There are numerous technics to lock and control your opponent. The difference is that where in styles like aikido and the like, they tend to try and immobilise you with locks, in WC its more a metode to gain a short benefit. IE you remove an obstical for a split second in order to gain a decisive advantage.

That being said, at least in WT I have seen more and more use of headlocks and other immobilising technics meant for takedowns and the like brought in from grapling schools. but still its not something we specialise in. Its more meant as another mean to bring our opponent into a favorable possition from where we can pound him into submission :)


Hope that helped

[reneritchie]

You have most of the simple core arm locks you'd find in traditional standing aikijujitsu, though not the multitude of variation in general (since most folks don't focus on them to the degree aikijujitsu people would, the same way they wouldn't have the same variation in non-locking hands), and not the level of complexity (which IMHO didn't evolve simply because it doesn't hold up to WCK's principles of economic response). They aren't done in the same manner, however, as the alignment, power, and mechanics are strictly WCK.

[azwingchun]

I would have to agree with rene and jesper, we use an assortment of locks, but not in the sense that they are used to submit or hold. We use them as breaks, to slam someone to the ground or into an object (such as a wall or floor), or also to set up another attack (to create an opening in a sense).

But as rene mentioned there are many from other systems that we do not use, due to the structure of them which don't fit well into the Wing Chun structure.;)

[AndrewS]

From the WT perspective- there's a good bit of locking in the art, but I really don't buy it as the 'gentle control' which most arts seem to view it as. To me, locking should contain the same sensitivity and changeabilty as all else in the art. More to the point, the locks are not applied as controls/holds- they are, IMHO, strikes through a locked joint, much as in Okinawan Karate (unsurprisingly, as we share common antecedants with Okinawan Te).

Andrew

[monkey man]

Cheers for the input....I have noticed recently, after studying some locks in another discipline, that alot of wrist locks and arm bars could potentially flow quite well within chi sau - and presumably also within combat. Like I said before, the tok sau/jut sau combination to an incoming punch is similar to an arm bar but, as azwingchun pointed out, would be designed to break the arm rather than control the opponent. However, if you failed to get the break (because your timing was slightly off) then such a move - IMHO - would not be as successful as getting an arm bar (say out of a larp sau; pulling the opponent completely off balance and bent over) which would then allow you to control the opponent, move onto the break if you so desired (whilst continuing applying pressure to the opponent) or manoeuvre yourself into a better position for the next attack. Such a move is relatively simple (as simple as trapping the arms, anyway) so should not deviate from the wing chun philosophy of simplicity.


Does anyone practice such a move in their Wing Chun training/school?

[nvisblfist]

I employ a variety of locks. I tend to use these mostly to protect my opponent from from severe injury, and as a way to have mercy on them and end the encounter.

[Xiao3 Meng4]

Chum Kiu seems to lend itself easily to spine manipulations. The form demonstrates much potential in terms of takedowns or "get behinds" (I have no idea what a term for that would be; essentially, I'm referring to the practice of getting behind someone.)

One of the most interesting applications I've found is the use of the "bong to lop-uppercut" as a back-bending headlock.. bong the punch, lop, and wrap the bong around the attacker's neck. The end result is an attacker whose one arm is stretched out (potentially barred against the hip), and whose neck is on the verge of being sealed and/or broken.. not to mention the backwards half-bend in the attacker's back, and the juicy number of targets available on the yinside. :)