Musical Kung Fu ? Is it just me ?

[ursa major]

The first time I saw 'musical kung-fu', that is forms done to music, I figured that like disco music it would go away as people regained their senses.

To my horror not only has it not gone away but the reverse -- it has grown in popularity and I am seeing it more and more in tournaments and events.

In fact, like an insidious virus, is has infected one of the clubs where I train. Where we once had students practicing iron form we now have young divas prancing about while flayling their martial arts to Britney Spears... and this has been deemed as acceptable behaviour.

Is it just me ? Am I getting old ? Granted I started MA in the early 70's so am getting on. I don't get it -- what earthly purpose is there in playing your forms to music ? IMO this reduces precious MA to mere choreography.

Regards,
UM.

[KC Elbows]

It's cheesy, but as long as the music has the same timing as the form, I don't have a problem with it. Unfortunately, the rhythms are rarely the same.

The handy thing about slow music to practice slow forms to is it reminds you to slow down more than you might normally. I've played around with the idea of writing a song based around the timing of the internal form of my system, one version with fa jing, one without. But then, I'm a stinking hippy. Something really mellow, but the version with fa jing would have these sudden crescendoes.

[Chang Style Novice]

It's not just you. I'm new to this, and find the idea of music playing during forms competitions to be silly, distracting, and pandering to people who are more interested in seeing some kind of dance than martial art.

And I do tai chi!

Then again, I don't think very highly of forms competitions regardless of musical accompaniment.

[KC Elbows]

I agree, I just think it can be a useful tool while learning. That's not why it's used in competition, there it's just an attempt at showmanship. And usually, like I said, the rhythm is all messed up. That's the problem: while forms don't always have a funky rhythm, the odds of finding a song where the rhythms, including all the dramatic moves/fa jings, are anywhere close to one and the same, so some people seem to like either lame dance beat, or really mellow music where most people can't discern the beat, either of which is lame.

It's just the odds of finding a song to match the form is zero, so unless you're a musician, you're stuck with at best good form poorly matched with music, which is bad showmanship, and since showmanship was the goal in competition, you're better off just doing good form by itself.

One of the best push hands players I've met recommended two things for good relaxed internal skill. Slow music was the first one. Gene, pass the second one.

[Chang Style Novice]

I consider it a catch 22 while learning.

If the music is prominent enough to hear, it will more likely distract than aid. (Learning is too spontaneous and unpredictable for recorded music to be an important tool - live improvised music as in capoeira might be a different story, but I don't think we're talking about that since capoeira a - doesn't have forms and b - is almost as much improvisational dance as martial art.)

If the music isn't prominent enough to hear, it won't have any effect at all.

[dezhen2001]

for me i dont mind... there have been creative kata competitions in karate for many years - even to music. To me, like wushu - great atheletes, especially if u can make a routine to the music. its like floor gymnastics.

they deserve props, but again, its different from fighting skill :)

dawood

[eulerfan]

I occasionally practice tai chi to 'spinning plates' by radiohead.

[KC Elbows]

CSN,
I think when the lessons actually going on(i.e. teacher showing student something), music is very intrusive and counter productive. But when the student is doing form, it can help, because most students that do slow forms tend to speed up and such. If they know where they're supposed to be at the bridge(speaking musically), and they aren't there yet, or passed it, they become aware of a problem.

However, I think it's sort of like mirrors. Ultimately, you don't need either. Even if you see all your problems in a mirror and address them, until you don't need the mirror to know whether and where your body mechanics are off, you don't have kung fu.

So, it's just a tool, but not a requirement.

[KC Elbows]

I like radiohead, as well as some tool for workouts. I'll also use Passion(Peter Gabriel), and the CTHD soundtrack. I don't usually do externals to music, but King Crimson is fun, if distracting at times(you're really not supposed to shout thela hun ginjeet when you attack, at least that's what my sifu says)

[ZIM]

Maybe you can introduce Kung Fu mixed with Performance Art :eek:
I can see it now: spouting bad poetry while doing taiji, weird jump-cut videos in the background, a jar of urine on the floor....with a yin yang symbol in it...

Hey- there's an idea!!

[KC Elbows]

We could get grants for that sort of project, ZIM!

Nice touch with the urine.

CSN, you're the artist, let's get moving on this. I'll provide the urine. ZIM, you photocopy your nipples. Euler, do you have any problem working with eels?

[Chang Style Novice]

sniff - performance art isn't what I do. Thats (tone of incredible disdain) theater. I, on the other hand, PAINT! and DRAW! Such an ephemeral approach to creation is not for me. I create art objects and artifacts that will last forEVER!

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dangit, this papers going yellow.

[KC Elbows]

All right, paint something for me to pee on.

[ZIM]

Well, maybe CSN can stick a bullwhip up his butt and photograph that for the project...

Which nipples you want? :eek:

[KC Elbows]

"Which nipples you want?"

All three of them.

Where's those **** eels?

[eulerfan]

Now, what exactly do you want me to do with the eels?

[KC Elbows]

The eels are just there to contrast with the body paint and pine cones. Have you worn one of these before?

[HANDS EULERFAN A THIMBLE WITH A STRING AROUND IT]

[Chang Style Novice]

psst - eulerfan. It goes on your nose

I already have tons of old canvasses not suited to anything better than potty training, so go for it.

[KC Elbows]

You can tell CSN's done this before.

This might take a while. Shy bladder.


































Could you please not watch?:mad:

[ZIM]

"...And here you see the posture 'Snake Creeps Down'..."

[ok maybe "golden c0ck stands on one leg"]

Who's getting the grant??

[KC Elbows]

Oh, for this sort of thing, you don't even need to look for the grants. People bring money to you for body paint, pinecones, eels, urine and canvas, and thimbles.

[ZIM]

They just...*bring* you money?? Man, I need to get into this gig....

[KC Elbows]

YOU'RE IN IT MAN!!!

YOU'RE THE NIPS, WITHOUT THE NIPS, WHAT DO WE GOT?!!!!

aside from Eulerfan with a thimble on her nose covered with pine cones and body paint and desparately trying to keep back two large slimy eels

WITHOUT YOU, THIS WOULDN'T BE ART!!!!

ALL HAIL THREE NIPS ZIM!!!

[ZIM]

Lordy, but we've sidetracked this thread! :D

So back to "Kung Fu: the Musical", scored by Andrew Lloydd Webber, no doubt [or maybe No Doubt]

[Chang Style Novice]

Yep, and in something close to a record number of posts.

Let me just offer what I think to be an appropriate analogy - I don't try to view paintings and practice forms. I don't try to watch movies and practice forms. I don't try to read and practice forms. These all provide extraneous information that can only distract me from what I'm trying to do, and I wouldn't get good practice or good art appreciation, reading comprehension, or viewing experience out of such a strategy. Or, put more simply -

I'm trying to concentrate, here!

[ZIM]

The only art I can think of where it really helps is Capoiera. Or Power Rangers-style things. Maybe this is where it comes from, maybe aerobics, too...
I agree that it really doesn't fit.

The comedy was an attempt to lampoon the trend...sorta! ;)

[BrentCarey]

Not specifically a problem. However, the problem arises from the confusion of an ambiguous relation to other CMA. Since CMA is so loosely organized (nearly completely lacking in organization), there is not a clear distinction between musical forms competitions, and true martial arts practice.

I have respect for the athletes, but this is not martial arts because it specifically lacks the "martial" element. However, it is perceptually lumped together with all other forms of kung fu creating much confusion within the CMA community, and in the public view.

This problem is not isoloted to musical kung fu. Kung fu is so broad, rich, and varied, it is too big for most people to digest. Lumping together all of the pursuits that are based on CMA, and calling them collectively "kung fu" creates much confusion that hurts the MA community in general, and the CMA community specifically.

[Laughing Cow]

Some Tai Chi practicioners do practice forms to Music, more used as a pacing tool than anything.

It can also help the beginning student to relax.

There was a thread some time ago about it, do a search.

[Royal Dragon]

I voted for it. here's why:

People like it. I don't see anything wrong with it. HOWEVER, I think in the Kwoon it's a different thing. No loud hoppi'n tunes wile your trying to work. We used to do that at one of my old Kung Fu schools, and I was really annoyed by it.


In the same note, I have a "Tai Chi" CD that has some music that is timed well for practicing the 37 move form. It sets a good mood for my students, and it keep them from hearing my knees crackling. :D

[HuangKaiVun]

This Saturday, I was at a demonstration in Phoenix.

While I improvised melodies on my violin, my student improvised kung fu moves using the basics I showed him.

Depending on the jing I wanted him to demonstrate, I would play in the way necessary to get it out. If I wanted him to go harder, I would put more accents. If I wanted him to slow down, I'd reduce my tempo. Meanwhile, my student would influence me by his physical actions. We were responding to each other.

As the musician, I didn't just sit there and play. I'd get up and do the moves while playing (within limits, of course). For example, we walked the Baguazhang circle against each other while I was playing melodies.

Afterwards, my student said that he enjoyed it very much. It helped him feel the different jings and liberated his movement. I'll probably add it to my regular classes at some point.

[joedoe]

I prefer not to train to music - I find it distracting. I find the forms demos & competitions done to music are pretty wanky but the crowd (and more importantly the judges) seems to like it so people continue to do it.