" Willing Possesion "

[jmd161]

I wanted to know if any of you guys have this within your systems?

1.If you do what are your thoughts on it?
2.If you don't what are your thoughts on it?

I ask because we have both Spirit Boxing and Drunken Spirit Boxing within Black Tiger.This has kept Hak Fu Moon from being within the mainstream since the style was created.

Spirit Boxing for those of you who don't know what it is.Is when you ask the Spirit of a past warrior to come into your body.Like with asking the spirit of General Kwan of the Kwan Do fame to come into your body.You are able to do techniques you were never even exposed to before this "Willing Possesion".

It also brings bad because the entire spirit is brought into your body. So if you don't know how to control it you could be in trouble.

What are your guys thoughts on the subject?

jeff:)

[carly]

I think you should pass the joint around and share that dynamite stuff you are smoking!

[dezhen2001]

ah, u mean San Da (not to be confused with the full contact sport :D)... ive heard of it from a friend who does pak mei but dont know much about it :)

dawood

[Royal Dragon]

I've heard of stuff ike that, but I always assumed it ws a poetic way of saying your useing self hypnosis to unleash your primitive fighting abilitys.

[jmd161]

I expect replies like this from some of you so it's no problem.

Carly,

I'm looking for people that have knowledge of it also. So i'll take the good with the bad and mark it down that you have no knowledge on the subject.

Thanks anyway.

jeff:)

[jmd161]

Originally posted by dezhen2001
ah, u mean San Da (not to be confused with the full contact sport :D)... ive heard of it from a friend who does pak mei but dont know much about it :)

dawood

Yeah that's what i'm talking about.


I always assumed it ws a poetic way of saying your useing self hypnosis to unleash your primitive fighting abilitys.

No RD,

It's when you bring the spirit of a dead master or person into your body.It could be done with Sung Tai Jow (Tai Tzu) also.

jeff:)

[carly]

I don't know anything of this. Royal Dragon gave you a response that makes sense, though.
To some degree we all call on the spirit of our teacher, school and traditional when we fight, don't we?
You might enjoy watching Big Trouble in Little China.

[jmd161]

You're right but this goes alot futher than that.

jeff:)

[carly]

if you can convince yourself that you're possessed by some spirit it might allow you to unleash your potential, ie, it would perhaps be a useful self-deception.

[carly]

if you accidentally channeled the spirit of one of the lazier less capable ancestors in your style instead of the fearsome ones...
Can you give us a general overview (no sharing of secret words or mantras necessary) of how it is done?

[jmd161]

That's why i was looking for ppl that have an idea about it.

I have yet to learn it myself.My sihing is the only person my sifu has taught in the U.S. and only Non-Chinese period.Spirit Boxing is the most advanced part of Hak Fu Moon.I'm not quite there yet.

I've spoken to my sihing but briefly because he lives in Cali.He said it's the most crazy,spooky sh!te he's ever seen or done in his life.He can't really explain it other than it's some funked up sh!te

He says you're not really controlling your body ,but when you're done you still remember the techniques.I plan to get more from him in the next few week to months.He's putting together a Black Tiger book and we're supposed to be in the book.My Sifu,my other Sihing,and myself.

jeff:)

[dezhen2001]

i know that it contaisn a lot of smelly incense and lots of invocations and what it is meant to do... even my friends sifu has done it, but i have never seen or really heard of this...

somehting like making you stronger and protecting you, like hard qigong just without the trianing... but it can also be dangerous...

dawood

[joedoe]

Talk to (or PM) prana - he has had some experience of something like this. I have heard stories about it but have never seen it much less personally experienced it.

[jmd161]

Originally posted by dezhen2001
isomehting like making you stronger and protecting you, like hard qigong just without the trianing... but it can also be dangerous...

dawood

Yeah because the spirit can overtake your body if you don't know how to control it.That started to happen to my sihing.He and my sifu both told me about it happening to him.

It's the reason my sifu says he may not teach me.He has'nt made up his mind yet.Although i think he wants to really teach me because he talks to me about it alot ,and if he's not going to teach you something he won't talk about it once he's said he's not going to teach you.Like me and Dim Mak he just smiles now and changes the subject.

jeff:)

[Royal Dragon]

I have never heard of this beng done in Tai Tzu. It's a practical system with emphasis on simple effective and sometimes brutal tactics. Spiritual possession does not sound like it fits the description of Tai tzu at all, it's more religious or spritual thing.

Tai tzu is a nuts and bolts practical reality based system nothing for show, everything for practial application. Thats why I like it so much. The older Long Fist systems like Tai Tzu are very direct and practical, not showy, or spiritual, just effective and functional. Infact, some of the techniques in the Southern branch are "Caveman" simple and brutal. The MMA guys would love it.

[jmd161]

Royal Dragon,

I'm saying you can use the spirit of Sung Tai Jow i did'nt say it was within the Tai Tzu system.

jeff:)

[Royal Dragon]

Oh, OK

[dezhen2001]

yup i heard about that too :) From all accounts it seems ot be very practical! powerful.

dawood

[Starchaser107]

Assuming this is possible,
In what context would a kungfu student in todays world find use for thissort of posession.
To win tournaments, competing for sports. I dont think so.
What would one have to benefit from being possessed as such, I dont think its worth it unless it were extremely important. Someone would have to explain the practicality of this to me.
Good luck in your search.

[Royal Dragon]

Question,
In ancient times, when an army went into battle, what happens if like 10,000 guys (from both sides) all call on the same spirit? How does the spirit know who to go to??

[jmd161]

I don't know that's pretty funny.

I'll have to ask my sifu about that.

That's a funny thought though Royal Dragon.

jeff:)

[joedoe]

That's easy - it would go to the one with the best kung fu. Or the one who made the best blood sacrifice :D

[dezhen2001]

what about if you invoke someone and end up with one of the 8drunken immortals :D wonder if that would help you fight :p

dawood

[joedoe]

As long as it wasn't the cross-dresser :D

[Brad]

I wanted to know if any of you guys have this within your systems?

1.If you do what are your thoughts on it?
2.If you don't what are your thoughts on it?

I ask because we have both Spirit Boxing and Drunken Spirit Boxing within Black Tiger.This has kept Hak Fu Moon from being within the mainstream since the style was created.

Spirit Boxing for those of you who don't know what it is.Is when you ask the Spirit of a past warrior to come into your body.Like with asking the spirit of General Kwan of the Kwan Do fame to come into your body.You are able to do techniques you were never even exposed to before this "Willing Possesion".

It also brings bad because the entire spirit is brought into your body. So if you don't know how to control it you could be in trouble.

What are your guys thoughts on the subject?

jeff
My thoughts on the subject? I think someone who is teaching this is probably either:
1.Crazy
2.A liar
3.Is somehow using self-hyonosis inadvertantly
I'm sure you've heard all of the above before though. Not trying to be mean or anything, just giving my honest opinion. Of course there is a small part of me that has to allow for the slight posibility this is some kind of legitamate skill, seeing as how I believe that a dude named Jesus walked on water ;-) If it is possible though, it is not something I would be interested in learning... too creepy :-P

[joedoe]

I think personally, if I were going to fight I would prefer to do it myself rather than leaving it up to a spirit. I know that if I were fighting for my life, I know what my intention would be. You never know what the intention of a spirit may be :).

[Brad]

Yeah, letting someone who's allready dead fight for your life doesn't seem like a very good idea either now that you mention it ;-)

[Chang Style Novice]

Well, with this topic, I'm ready to call troll on JMD.

If you're not a troll and deliberately trying to make CMAist look like idiots, that's even worse.

[joedoe]

I don't think he is trolling. I have heard of this kind of thing being done. Whether or not you believe it is another thing, just as whether it is real or not is a different matter. :)

[Royal Dragon]

Personally, I think you enter a self hypnotic state where the brain is moving really fast, and nothing more than that. You can probably do the same thing without special training by over dosing on MaHuang mixed with some Ginko and Centella, and maybe Fo Ti as a mood enhancer.


Mahuang Foti mix boosts agression,

Ginko improves the cerbral functions, and gives hightened senses due it increased circulation in the eyes, nose, ears and improved brain function due to increased circulation there as well.

Centella improves the concentraition, so you can keep it all under controll.


Read the book for doseage levels in raw dried herbs.

Mahaung is about 3000 mg (Equivilant to maybe 300 mg in concentriated extract)

Foti and centella are one to one with each other, and if I remeber right about 4500mg (dried herb which is then boiled, so like the mahuang, your only getting 450 mg IF that at best)

Can't remeber the Ginko amount off hand, but it's a really weak herb, so I think it was high. I'd have to check the book to see the recomended start dose.

I'd start with that, but only take half and see how it works, if you feel it at rest, you need to cut back the dose. You should only see the results of the formula in imporved physical abilities, not feel it in the form of shakyness or extra reveued upness.

Anywany that's part of the secret 18 herb "Royal Dragon" forumula, that took 6 years to develop through pain staking research and testing.

Your not gettng the rest, because then I'd have to kill ya. :eek: :D

[prana]

Believe it if you wish, or dont believe it if you find it ridiculous, but you shouldnt mouth what you dont see in the western world, that is often seen in the east. The deities that your grandmasters pray to arent without spirits.

I have experienced it, and had complete control over it, although being a skeptic & non-believer prior to that, I was so afraid, I had turned completely cold and did not know how to control what was in me. But when asked to give thanks for his teachings, he immediately withdrew.

When asked to explain back then, it's as if a giant storm was controlling my limbs and body, and I would move around, and when I tired to resist it, I just shook uncontrollably. Kinda reminds me of those those Qi-Gong practitioners who are about to raise their qi into their heads, they tremble and sweat...

If asked now, after practising much more Buddhism, to explain what it is, my closest explanation is of a timeless thought (which arises as wind) which helps clear and clean meridian blockages in the body, to allow for greater spiritual practise.

The deity was a healer/scholar named Wang, or as we asked for him "Wang Lau sien tze". I would be careful about which deities you can ask for help to teach and guide you.

But dont ask me about asking this deity in combat to help you, it does NOT work that way. I am not knowledgeable enough in the area of san-gong to give you whys and whats, where and whens, but I can tell you this much, my greatest stupidity was to close my mind on there being greater beings than us, how selfish it was, that just because I couldnt see it or make sense of it logically, that I would discount and ridicule it.

[ZIM]

I've heard of this type of thing- and so have most of you, if you include voodun practices\Loas in the mix.

I believe in it's potential, but not for combat. I'm not quite certain of the self-hypnosis angle, primarily because I'm quite familiar with hypnosis, and this is not it, IMHO.

I also remember reading an article awhile ago, regarding a White Ape style that did this- the [Vietnamese?] practitioner was in Hawaii..

[Cody]

I liked reading what you had to say.
I do believe in voluntary physical/spiritual possession. To me, it is a fact, but not as an emanation of the spirit of one who has passed. Maybe, under some circumstances it could happen, but I don't believe in this. It is my honest thought process.

Rather, I would seek other explanations for what is related to me, and for what I have experienced. I've thought there might be more than one possibility, including an altered state of consciousness which is completely of one person, where the consciousness somehow splits temporarily as the spirit/body/mind relationship shifts. So, I am thinking that the appearance of a possessed state can occur with or without external possession. Hence, more than one phenomenon.
It's my opinion that one's training and deepest held beliefs (or lack thereof), one's expectations, can come into play. And that possession might be other than what it seems.

It has come to my attention, via another spiritual Kung Fu thread, that someone with strong beliefs and affiliations might be offended at my opinions, but I can't let that detract me, though I felt badly about it. I have learned that I must be mindful of possible trouble rather than thinking that good intentions will cover me. My lesson for today, which I will need.

best,
Cody

[MightyB]

The Boxer Rebellion... So they (the boxers) believed in calling on the spirits and practicing chi gung, that they would make their bodies immune to the effects of knives and bullets and therefore invincible in battle. They were wrong. Oh were they wrong.

Here's a little story from a witness to the boxer rebellion. It's a warm and fuzzy story for you heathens that think Christians are evil. Witnessing the madness. (http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1900Fei-boxers.html)

This is the long term effect of the boxer rebellion: Scroll down to the Reform section. (http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~dee/CHING/BOXER.HTM)

So much for Spiritual Kung Fu.

[apoweyn]

prana,


Originally posted by prana
I have experienced it, and had complete control over it, although being a skeptic & non-believer prior to that, I was so afraid, I had turned completely cold and did not know how to control what was in me. But when asked to give thanks for his teachings, he immediately withdrew.

so... you had complete control over it. but you did not know how to control it? and it withdrew on its own, when asked to give thanks?


When asked to explain back then, it's as if a giant storm was controlling my limbs and body, and I would move around, and when I tired to resist it, I just shook uncontrollably. Kinda reminds me of those those Qi-Gong practitioners who are about to raise their qi into their heads, they tremble and sweat...

so... it was like a giant storm was controlling it? not you? or are you the giant storm? and then when you were resisting this thing over which you had complete control, you shook uncontrollably?


If asked now, after practising much more Buddhism, to explain what it is, my closest explanation is of a timeless thought (which arises as wind) which helps clear and clean meridian blockages in the body, to allow for greater spiritual practise.

The deity was a healer/scholar named Wang, or as we asked for him "Wang Lau sien tze". I would be careful about which deities you can ask for help to teach and guide you.

so... what did this healer scholar teach you?


But dont ask me about asking this deity in combat to help you, it does NOT work that way. I am not knowledgeable enough in the area of san-gong to give you whys and whats, where and whens, but I can tell you this much, my greatest stupidity was to close my mind on there being greater beings than us, how selfish it was, that just because I couldnt see it or make sense of it logically, that I would discount and ridicule it.

i agree that being closed minded is a fault. but being open minded doesn't necessarily involve buying the whole shooting match either. personally, i'm not going to make that leap straight from nonbeliever to devout avatar of wang lau sien tze. i think there's probably some stuff worth analyzing somewhere in between.


stuart b.

[ZIM]

Prana, is this similar to shaktipat? If you're not familiar, try here. (http://www.llewellynjournal.com/article/358/) [admittedly, not the best site] You can PM if you like.

Cody- this strikes me as a separate and serious undertaking from KF. FWIW, the sense I get is that you're asking in a spirit of speculation &/or possibly self-aggrandisement and maybe that is what upsets ppl. I'm not judging you, just looking at the responses.

[Former castleva]

It seems MightyB stole my very point,a good point being done anyways...
Yes,our human brains can do amazing things if made to do so,power of self-stimulation cannot be denied.
As a person close to did well say "A man can see anything he wants to see".This does not necessarily make it true though,since they are rather subjective experiences,personal psychophysics for you. :)
I strongly believe that a great amount of educated Chinese (as an example) of present days do not bother thinking about such things (which does not translate to culture being gone but modern influence having arrived and developments being made+beliefs of the old/superstition etc. were living "underground"-considerable parts of them like national religions still having influence)
It is not necessary to deny physiological&psychophysiological influences that such artificial "hype" may have on one (being highly scientifically proven.If I was christian,I could say that the spirit entering one´s body is satan...which sums this up so far)
Be careful when it comes to what you trust in this world,analyze and take a step.
Just my few cents.

[Xebsball]

I must say i dunno nothing on the subject.

But prana is the man!! :D

[jmd161]

Originally posted by Chang Style Novice
Well, with this topic, I'm ready to call troll on JMD.

If you're not a troll and deliberately trying to make CMAist look like idiots, that's even worse.

I'm not either ,but you are entitled to your thoughts.

If trying to have a discussion over something that does exist in kung fu is deliberately trying to make CMAist look like idiots?

Then i must be an idiot myself? Because i believe my sifu and sihing when they speak to me on this subject. I trust my sifu like i trust my father.Infact i think on a personal level he and i are even closer than my father and i !So think what you want i'm not interested in being a troll!

My interest lies in kung fu. Hak Fu Moon to be exact!

jeff:)

[MightyB]

The human soul weighs one 3,000th of an ounce, according to researchers at the Technical University of Berlin. They weighed 200 terminally ill patients just before and immediately after they died, finding a one-3,000th-ounce weight-loss in each case. In a letter to German science journal Horizon, Dr Becker Mertens said his team had taken into account other possible explanations of weight loss (such as air leaving the lungs), but that ‘the inescapable conclusion is that we have now confirmed the existence of the human soul’. The challenge now was to ‘figure out exactly what the soul was composed of’. Any takers?


http://www.newint.org/issue248/update.htm

[Former castleva]

MightyB,
Such studies were made some time ago (considerable perhaps...) in order to view what happens when the soul leaves the body.
There was loss of weight (if little) which was considered to have to do with changes in one´s system,which you mentioned to a degree.
Later those studies were stopped because of ethical and possibly related problems.


:)

[apoweyn]

sifuabel,

as a past teacher of jmd's, i'm interested to hear your take on this subject. what do you make of it?


stuart b.

[MonkeySlap Too]

I knew a Bak Mei teacher who prayed to Kwan Gung to possess him in battle.

I know a silat group that seeks out animal 'totems'.

Frankly, I just do not beleive in this sort of thing as being anything natural. (Nothing is supernatural, if it really exists.)

There are three positions to start from here.

1.) There is no objective evidence that such things exist. There is a wealth of evidence to show that people do dumb things when they beleive it. Therefore it is just superstition.

2.) It may be superstition, but since the mind operates on visualization - it produces a mind-body effect that is not fully understood, and as such was ascribed 'supernatural' status.

3.) It's real. And depending on your spiritual beleifs, it is either a good thing, or a dangerous thing, it's not up to you, and you can't possibly know the truth, but if can't figure it out, your f@cked.

I've encountered a few interesting phenomena in QiGong training, but it hasn't been put under the test, so the jury is out. Generally speaking, don't buy into testimonials rather than direct experience, or else you end up beleiving stuff like this: www.oomyungdoe.com

Don't say I didn't warn you. Besides didn't the Buddha say "Miraculous powers are no sign of enlightenment." or some such thing like that.

[MightyB]

If life represents an escape from chemistry, we cannot appeal to chemistry to explain life. But where else might an explanation lie? Life is ultimately about complex information processing, so it makes sense to seek a solution in the realm of information theory and complexity theory. Since biological information is not encoded in the laws of physics and chemistry (at least as currently known), where does it come from? There seems to be agreement that information cannot come into existence spontaneously (except perhaps in the big bang), so the information content of living systems must somehow originate in their environment. Although there is no known law of physics able to create information from nothing, there might be some sort of principle that could explain how information can be garnered from the environment and accumulated in macromolecules.

Stuff to make your head hurt. (http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/astrobiology/lifeforce.jsp)

[MightyB]

The trouble is that the only experience we have of replicating molecules is of those used by life. It is extremely unlikely that DNA would form by chance. Even its simpler cousin, RNA, is hard to make in long enough strands to be biologically potent. And shorter nucleic acid molecules tend to make more errors when replicating. If the error rate gets too high, information leaks away faster than selection can inject it, and evolution grinds to a halt. Far from accumulating information, an error-prone molecule will shed it.

[MightyB]

To translate from the four-letter alphabet used by DNA into the twenty-letter system used by proteins, all Earth life uses the same code. The key question when it comes to the inevitability--or otherwise--of life is how this ingenious system of coding emerged? How did stupid atoms spontaneously write their own software, and where did the very peculiar form of information needed to get the first living cell up and running come from?

[Water Dragon]

What I don't understand is why a warrior? If I was going to be possesed, I'd be possesed by either a Pimp or dead Pirate who had buried some treasure. Either way, I'm gettin' some booty!

[jmd161]

It's no problem! Really :D

You can think i'm crazy or a troll or whatever with this post.

I thought it was crazy myself when i first heard it from my sifu.Then i started to listen to him with an open mind and put my thoughts on the subject to the back.My sifu is very serious about Spirit Boxing so i noticed that he was being serious.It can be a joking matter to you guys or some of you make take it serious.I for one am now a member of the latter group.I take it serious! I want to learn it to see how serious it is ,but i must admit i've never been one to believe in vodoo and the such.In talking with my sifu,sihing,and my sifu's friend a Qi Gong master here from China the last few months.I'm starting to believe in spirits a little more now.

Think what you may i'm still just keeping it real!

If i'm wrong then i'm wrong ,but i plan to find out either way!

jeff:)

[Water Dragon]

www.cultwatch.com

:rolleyes:

[Cody]

There is experience/awareness within Kung Fu, upon which a questioning of premises is based (along with other subject matter). The speculative quality is because I don't know it all and make that clear.
What I have to say is both directed to and tangential to the taking over of one's being by the spirit of a passed warrior, but is germane to the issue as a whole, that of spiritual/physical possession, in degrees, in CMA. It is separate only insofar as the Door is shut.

I have liked to think that I would accomplish more than I have to improve the human condition along certain lines of interest; that surety and determination can be misunderstood or distorted by others. I wish to change my approach and what underlies it, but my opinions stand. If you check back, you will find that the issue is being resolved. Even if we can't find agreement on subject matter, I don't want hard feelings. There's enough misery without those.

What you see is a ridiculous but serious situation, in which an aware mouse is trying to climb the Himalayas because there is no shelter below, and to search for the clear water above, without any guarantees of Anything. The mouse has just learned three words: I am nothing.
You know the phrase about "absolute power...."?

I'm experimenting and learning here, for a while, to help me make decisions.

thank you for not judging me, and giving an honest opinion.

Cody

[fa_jing]

1. I don't believe the interpretation of being actually possessed by the spirit of another

2. LOL at Waterdragon

3. http://www.sevenmountainskungfu.com/ The spiritual practice involves calling one of 36 ancient warriors to assist you in battle. Despite #1, I feel it is an interesting practice.

[fa_jing]

This is a better link http://www.sevenmountainskungfu.com/Inside%20Kung-Fu%20page%201.html

[Former castleva]

"Spirit form is a type of channeling,a trance form of martial arts.The student will evoke the spirit teacher who will come,protect and teach them the art.If the student is attacked on the street,the student would go into a trance and the spirit teacher would come and protect them.It is a spirit martial art or trance fighting art."

Whoa.What struck me is that there was no cross-link being made to any metaphors.

[ZIM]

I checked- and am glad it worked out. Misunderstandings are always a problem with this medium as well.

My only concern was the initial impetus for the study of this aspect to the arts. Too many ppl approach instructors with an attitude of "what can I get from you?" and that may have been the source of hard feelings, closed doors, etc. I think that in such an area, respect is a critical quality to have [and give] when asking about it.

I do see that you're trying very hard to not come off this way [and this is not to say that I'm any better- I'm all too human myself...].

[Royal Dragon]

I don't know about you guys, but if I ever find myself in a court room, I'm explaining this stuff in depth, and pleading temporary insanity.

I bet I'd get off with nothing more than a stay at the inn with some hottie nurses :D

[prana]

apowyn (Stuart)


Originally posted by apoweyn

so... you had complete control over it. but you did not know how to control it? and it withdrew on its own, when asked to give thanks?



Sure, the first time I rode a bike, I didnt know how to control it either, I remember hving numerous bruises before being able to go exactly where I want. Do you remember the first time you rode a bike ?


so... what did this healer scholar teach you?

An experience level of Qi, not just an explanation, my very first taste of it. Prior to that I was a close-minded Chemistry learning worm that couldnt believe in anything other than logic and science.




but being open minded doesn't necessarily involve buying the whole shooting match either. personally, i'm not going to make that leap straight from nonbeliever to devout avatar of wang lau sien tze.

Sure thing, I dont expect you to either, that would be unwise. Take the middle path, dont disregard it just because you havent tasted it. But dont take it just because I or anyone else have.

Please remember, English is not my first language, so my explanations are not very good, but try reading what I actually mean, not how I construct my sentences..... such as the first quote above.

ZIM.

I suspect Shaktipat is the awakening of Kundalini. However, from the article you are relying on a guru who has a direct transmission and realisation of the "shaktipat" system. Similar, but as far as I know and understand, when a person with good karma who understands how to escape the cycle of samsara, is not limited by time, neither space. He is able to emanate in the realm of sambhogakaya (your channels etc) to teach you etc.

But yes, because of this experience, and a few others theerafter, I have become a devoted practitioner of Vajrayana, which you will find relies on the compassion of the guru and the various Buddha's (re : chanting thread)


MonkeySlap Too


Don't say I didn't warn you. Besides didn't the Buddha say "Miraculous powers are no sign of enlightenment." or some such thing like that.

The target has nothing that seems magical, it is a state of emptiness. Miraculous powers are site effects of enlightenment. But if you meditate in search of miraculous powers, you cannot attain enlightenment. The only way to attain enlightenment is to abandon those miraculous powers, and practise for the sake of all life kinds in all of samsara.

Water Dragon



What I don't understand is why a warrior? If I was going to be possesed, I'd be possesed by either a Pimp or dead Pirate who had buried some treasure. Either way, I'm gettin' some booty!

A person needs to have removed enough karma to have the chance to be reborn in the deva or Buddha realms. Without these, it is said they cannot attain emanative states.

Hence the average pimp, cross dresser, whatever is not the kinda people you will find are able to die and escape samsara (cycle of life and death)

Royal Dragon

Maybe :) :p What if the nurses are grumpy men ?

[ZIM]

RD- you'd probably get Braden as your psychologist and he'd say "you're OK!" :D [NOI to Braden]

Prana- thank you for the thought provokin', cogent and kind reply! :)

[SevenStar]

I think Felipe Bido has experience in this area. send a PM to him.

[Former castleva]

Feeling of enlightment,as in meditation (check zen buddhism etc./high on meditation) and clear state of mind is a nice concept.
It has also been noted that it strongly activates certain brain regions (I´d go with frontal,along with certain hemisphere centered activity etc.) This in turn may have to do with clearness and heightened cognitive processing and awareness (whatever one prefers to call) which also knows other names.
Interesting it is.
I know Dalai Lama is highly interested in such scientifical research on these ways.

[apoweyn]

prana,


Originally posted by prana apowyn (Stuart)

Sure, the first time I rode a bike, I didnt know how to control it either, I remember hving numerous bruises before being able to go exactly where I want. Do you remember the first time you rode a bike ?

hmm... vaguely, yeah. (it was about 25 years ago, after all.) i certainly remember being wobbly and unsure. but i doubt i would have described myself as having complete control over it, the way you did about this spirit thing.

but you're right. that's semantics. and not really worth much as such.


An experience level of Qi, not just an explanation, my very first taste of it. Prior to that I was a close-minded Chemistry learning worm that couldnt believe in anything other than logic and science.

you know, i still don't really accept that you were possessed by the spirit of a specific chinese doctor. i apologize. i don't mean to be offensive. but at the same time, i really like this explanation. whether i share your opinion or no, what really carries weight in a case like this is direct experience. if you experienced it, then any argument i have against it is less consequential. i can debate the precise nature of what you experienced. but in a very real sense... so what? you felt it. and if that's enough for you, then amen.


Sure thing, I dont expect you to either, that would be unwise. Take the middle path, dont disregard it just because you havent tasted it. But dont take it just because I or anyone else have.

Please remember, English is not my first language, so my explanations are not very good, but try reading what I actually mean, not how I construct my sentences..... such as the first quote above.

actually, prana, your english is excellent. i wouldn't have targeted the language use if i had realized that english wasn't your native language. i targeted it because i thought it reflected how you viewed the phenomenon. not how you tried to express it in english.

in short, i'm not a believer. not in your specific account. (that is to say that i believe something happened. but i'm less given to believe that you were possessed by dr. wang, specifically.) but i have to respect this answer. it's excellent. thanks for taking the time.


stuart b.

[Losttrak]

Actually, if you guys want a taster of what channelling is like I can give you a simple walk thru on how to reach the Alpha state (used for channelling and astral projection) if you like. I was more of a projector than a channeller but my mother was more familiar with the latter due to some of our family history which I wont go into. If you like I can give you the exercise and you will see it yourself. Keep in mind that the way projection is taught, you must traditionally find what they call your "guardian angel" over MUCH practice... notice the possible parallel between channelling and projection. Both instances allow contact with "something" on the other side. Anyways you can view this as my own personal disclaimer should any of you go batty or say that Losttrak didnt warn you that weird things may happen.

Sooo if you want to know how to see for yourself... just ask.

[Zbloff]

Yes, that could be interesting.
Please do.

[nothingness]

This thread reminds me of Santeria. Does anyone here have any knowledge or experience of that?

[JAZA]

JMD look the southern forum, there is an interesant discussion about SHen Da, just discard the southern brawling.

[nothingness]

ttt