Sort of OT: Why do you think the US is the greatest nation?

[joedoe]

Kinda off topic, but later on I will try to bring the thread on topic.

I know there are a lot of people who do not think the US is the greatest nation (namely a lot of our European posters :)) - that is not what this thread is about.

For those who think the US is the greatest nation in the world, please tell me why you think this.

[Chang Style Novice]

Imperialistic ruthlessness.

[Atleastimnotyou]

i think the US has a lot of both good and bad points, but i deffinately don't think that we are the greatest country. I don't know if i should say that though,,, seeing that i am a member of the US army and all.

[joedoe]

There is no need to be politically correct - almost everyone thinks that their nation is the best. Be honest in your answers :)

[Brad]

I hear New Zealand's pretty cool...

[yenhoi]

Im with CSN.

[Laughing Cow]

No Country is the best or the worst.

From an outsider point of view it appears that americans are convinced that they are living in the ONLY country that has:
1.) Freedom of speech
2.) Freedom of press.
3.) Freedom of religion.
4.) etc.
And like to rub it into the rest of the worlds faces, even though the majority can and is free to do the same things they reckon makes America so great.

We also see the USA talk about A but practice B or C or D continously

Of course fell free to point out EXACT areas where the USA is better than the rest of the world. Not one case, but where the rest of the world lacks,

Sorry, joedoe, but this topic calls for an outsider view as we know how much Americans are prejusticed against their own country.

;) :D

[joedoe]

Originally posted by Laughing Cow
No Country is the best or the worst.

From an outsider point of view it appears that americans are convinced that they are living in the ONLY country that has:
1.) Freedom of speech
2.) Freedom of press.
3.) Freedom of religion.
4.) etc.
And like to rub it into the rest of the worlds faces, even though the majority can and is free to do the same things they reckon makes America so great.

We also see the USA talk about A but practice B or C or D continously

Of course fell free to point out EXACT areas where the USA is better than the rest of the world. Not one case, but where the rest of the world lacks,

Sorry, joedoe, but this topic calls for an outsider view as we know how much Americans are prejusticed against their own country.

;) :D

I appreciate your views, and I would like to point out that every nation practices hypocrisy to some degree, however this thread, believe it or not, is not a political thread.

I have had some thoughts lately and I wanted to see what other people thought of them to test their validity.

I really should have titled the thread "Tell me why you think your nation is the best". I picked the US because most of the forum members are from the US and it seemed the best way to relate my ideas.

[Marky]

I agree with Laughing Cow.

The US says, "thou shalt not cut down the rain forest", but we indiscriminately cut down many of our forests just make the country what it is today.

The US says, "Killing innocents is bad", but look at General Sherman in the American Civil War, who burned the fields and homes of those he knew would one day return to the Union (if the Union won).

The US says, "slavery is evil", yet slavery is one of the cornerstones to the foundation of the evolution of the United States.

A Muslim friend of mine once told me, "before I came to America, I knew only two things about Americans. One, they eat too many sweets. Two, when they ask, 'how are you doing?', they don't really want you to answer them."

Buildings full of families in the Middle East are destroyed by missiles that read "Made in Georgia" along their side.

Congressmen/women vote on bills to meet their own ends. If you went from door to door in any city or town and America, and asked the people, "would you vote 'yes' on bill X?", they would say, "No fu(kin' way". and yet, their congressmen/women just voted "yes" on that same bill.

It is a wise man who delegates authority to people smarter than himself. I only hope president Bush has done this.

But make no mistake that America was founded on the ideas of free speech, press, and religion. As the first modern country to embrace these concepts and survive, many other countries followed suit. If Europe had followed these guidelines to begin with, America wouldn't have come to be. However, if America had not come to be, Europe would not be what it is today. Okay, that HAS TO BE OPINION, since none of us can see into an alternate universe (that I know of....).

The reason I believe in the US is because EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY HAS DONE AND IS DOING BOTH GREAT AND HORRIBLE THINGS. I sincerely believe that the president is doing what is 'right' for the world. I've heard it said that the greatest flaw of America is that it is TOO FAIR in it's dealings with other nations. After Desert Storm, the US granted the Iraqi's full use of their helicopter fleet, on the grounds that they would be used to transport supplies to civilians. Those same choppers were immediately used to rain gunfire on the Iraqi people.

I read a great book called "From Novice to Master", a story about the life of a Zen master. He described his time in World War II, and he mentioned that until the end of the war, the Japanese people SINCERELY BELIEVED THEY WERE THE GOOD GUYS. But really, there's no good and evil in war, only enemies.

I guess the point is that I sincerely believe that the Americans are TRYING to be as good and fair as possible in this whole situation, and unfortunately, peace is not always an immediate option. For every line one draws in the sand after the first, it is that much easier for an opponent to cross it with a smile, and the next one. However, now that no more lines are being drawn, it is a cowardly adversary who begs forgiveness.

So, for better or worse, that's why I like the United States.

[joedoe]

Please don't turn this into a political thread. That was not my intention.

[wushu chik]

Here's my reason.... :) This is the best........ (http://http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=19814) If we can have THIS much time on our hands....it MUST be the best country in the world.........

~Wen~

['MegaPoint]

It's called "Capitalism" people. What do you think that means? We capitalize on the positive outcomes of the politico-economic "game". The result is the rest of the world gets "played".

If you don't understand the rules of a pyramid scheme and wind up losing more than you gain, then it's your own fault. Ignorance of the facts is no excuse! Once you agree to the "rules" of the game and participate, ones fate leaves their hands. America is the innovator, implementer, rule maker, main supporter and financier of the world economic stage/battlefield. Every country has a stock market with a "Wall Street" structure, and the dollar is still the faux-gold standard. Plus we got weapons, lots of 'em. Everything should end in a big "splosion, BOOOM! Hehehe! CIVILIZATION AT ITS FINEST!

The plantation owner is always gonna live on the high hog. Especiallly if the workers don't understand that he owns and controls them. Hahahaha. Sorry. You fools are getting took. It's International Servitude exported for our viewing pleasure. From the Africans to the indentured servants to you. We've dressed it up, revamped it snazzy-like and made it available for mass consumption. Ain't nuthin' like lazy elitists taking advantage of the world forever. We the citizens of the USA would like to thank you for your chaos, blood, sweat, tears and money. If we don't do it, someone else will. We got it locked up. No need to worry we'll, destroy-uhhh- take care of the world for you. Then puddle jump to the next recyclable planet. Peace or Pieces?

E. Pluribus Unum---- From Many, ONE. Somewhere a dead fuhrer smiles.

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by Watchman
Laughing Cow:

You forgot...

4.) The right to keep and bear arms.

Yeah, sure the US is the ONLY country to do so.

Pull the other one it hatheth Bells on.
:D

[Laughing Cow]

Megapoint.

Ever wonder why in most Countries "Pyramid schemes" are ILLEGAL.

Joedoe.

It was not my intention to turn this political, as many things I see guaranteed in the US constitutions are also part of many other countries constitutions.
But I guess topics like this will always turn political.

Even though I can't see a town in the USA build a mosque from taxpayers money as happened in my home-country which is predominately Catholic/Protestant.
FYI, we practice FULL separation of Church & State. A Goverment official mentions god or similar he/she is a goner.
Every Citizen is free to choose his Religion from the age of 14., this is a LAW and part of our Constitution.
NOBODY can interfere with that decision.

Cheers.

[OdderMensch]

sorry joedoe, i'll try to be brief.

The Us is not the greatest country on Earth, but i'd guess it to be in the top 5 ;)

Marky
The US says, "Killing innocents is bad", but look at General Sherman in the American Civil War, who burned the fields and homes of those he knew would one day return to the Union (if the Union won).
Being a southoner I've no real love for Sherman, but i cannot speak ill of him, he did what he thought was right to end the war quickly. But the fact that 'we' killed innocents, burned feilds and homes, or held slaves for labour, does not justify the acts in themselves.

Killing innocents is bad. Keeping slaves in bondage is bad. Kidnapeing, rapeing, droping atomic weapons, and firebombing are all bad, no arguement there. We, as a nation, in our short history have done all this and more. But where we seem unable to learn from our mistakes, I hope better countrys can look at us and learn.

Congressmen/women vote on bills to meet their own ends.
snip
It is a wise man who delegates authority to people smarter than himself. I only hope president Bush has done this.

But make no mistake that America was founded on the ideas of free speech, press, and religion. As the first modern country to embrace these concepts and survive, many other countries followed suit. If Europe had followed these guidelines to begin with, America wouldn't have come to be. However, if America had not come to be, Europe would not be what it is today. Okay, that HAS TO BE OPINION, since none of us can see into an alternate universe (that I know of....)

No, we cannot see alternate universes( yet ;)) but we can look at history. Our freedoms and instutions came cheifly from the europeon ideals of justice and liberty, it was not so much that we were being opressed (or taxed) but that we had no say in the matter. Had the Brits offered us full voteing rights, I might well be drinking tea right now.

But really, there's no good and evil in war, only enemies.
another good book, but a scary one is "We thought we were free" about the experiance of a small German town during the rise and fall of the Riech.


So, for better or worse, that's why I like the United States.
I know you like the US, just make sure you like it for the right reasons.

'MegaPoint

Hahahaha. Sorry. You fools are getting took. It's International Servitude exported for our viewing pleasure. From the Africans to the indentured servants to you. We've dressed it up, revamped it snazzy-like and made it available for mass consumption. Ain't nuthin' like lazy elitists taking advantage of the world forever. We the citizens of the USA would like to thank you for your chaos, blood, sweat, tears and money

:rolleyes: you are the reason nobody likes to talk about politics. :mad: its one of my favorite subjects, but I rarely bring it up here, being a kung fu forum and all.

America is the innovator, implementer, rule maker, main supporter and financier of the world economic stage/battlefield. Every country has a stock market with a "Wall Street" structure, and the dollar is still the faux-gold standard.
Uh huh, its called Capitalism, and we do it beter than most, plus we came out more or less on top after the first couple world wars, so we're in a great position to help the world. Or screw it over, but I think we are smart enough over the long term to not "$hit where we live.

Somewhere a dead fuhrer smiles.
No, cause in his world, you would be shot for saying such things.

[logic]

I'm just Wondering
(What If)

What if U.S.A. didn't get involved in the european war.(They should have minded their own bussiness)instead it became W.W.2

What if U.S.A. didn't fight Hitler and Nazi Germany?

What if U.S.A. did nothing against Mousoulini and dictatorship Italy?

What if U.S.A. Looked the other way with the empire of Japan?

Where or what shape would the WORLD be in today?

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by logic
I'm just Wondering
(What If)

What if U.S.A. didn't get involved in the european war.(They should have minded their own bussiness)instead it became W.W.2

What if U.S.A. didn't fight Hitler and Nazi Germany?

What if U.S.A. did nothing against Mousoulini and dictatorship Italy?

What if U.S.A. Looked the other way with the empire of Japan?

Where or what shape would the WORLD be in today?

I guess the U.S.A. entered WW II for ALL those reasons and NOT because they got attacked at Pearl Harbour in 1941.

Funny that they entered WW II after it was already in full swing for a few Years and now all of a sudden fought for all the right reasons.

Maybe we should thank the Japanese for getting them involved in WW II.

Hmmm.

[Frank Exchange]

Plus, dont forget that Germany declared War on the US first, not too long after Pearl Harbour. It was not like the US particularly had a choice at that point.

[logic]

Geese Laughing cow

I just took it for granted that everyone new we got involved after W.W.2 because of perl harber. I was only stating if we didn't get involved.

I admit I like my country.But by no means are we perfect.
We have corruption,scandal, in our government and I get ticked off when I hear about it. But every country has this also.

I hate sweets or candy of just about any kind.

I could care less how you are doing when I ask. When I go to the 7-11 today I going to tell the Indian clerk all of my problems and I sure he will have the ut most concern,just like the French do when Americans come to visit.

Yes many other countries do have the same rights we have.
and we don't mind fighting for and protecting those rights like we do so often, and then get kicked in the face for it.

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by logic

Yes many other countries do have the same rights we have.
and we don't mind fighting for and protecting those rights like we do so often, and then get kicked in the face for it.

Every Citizen fights for their rights, but I don't hear the rest of the world bragging about it.

It is the loudmouth attitude that get you kicked in the mouth more than anything.

Point being the rest of the world had enough of it(Broken record, etc) and is now speaking up about it.

Now you Guys feel upset because a few dreams are being shattered and you don't get the support you think you deserve.

[logic]

Stop spinning around it Laughing cow

My What If post explains it

Broken record, we do more in aid relief and fight for human rights more than anyone.

It's not like I'm out on the streets talking pro--America 24-7
It's quite the oppisit.

Gotta go to work now

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by logic

My What If post explains it


Except there is NO proof that the War would have ended differently without the U.S.A. Maybe not as fast, but the German Empire was already crumbling in 1941.

[QUOTE]
Broken record, we do more in aid relief and fight for human rights more than anyone.
[/QUOTE}

Broken record check the figures of Japan and the U.S.A. for the last few years.
And check the figures of Goverment donations vs Private Companies.

Cheers. Have fun at work.

[dwid]

Quote: " Except there is NO proof that the War would have ended differently without the U.S.A. Maybe not as fast, but the German Empire was already crumbling in 1941."

Yes, those last remaining vestiges of French and Polish resistance fighters were really doing a number on the German army.

I'm sure the Germans and Japanese wouldn't have been able to hold out for more than 30 or 40 more years without U.S. involvement.

[Ford Prefect]

More personal liberties than the socialist-swinging European countries.

Cultural: (ie blue jeans, rock and roll, hollywood etc) I can't name a single foreign film that came out last year, but most of our stuff gets exported.

Military: Most powerful military in the world. No other military today even compares.

Economic: The nation that has the second highest GDP is somewhere around 1/10th that of the US's.

[Ford Prefect]

Beleiving that the US didn't play a pivitol role in WW2 is ignorant at best. Almost all world leaders and military leaders of the time freely admit the importance of US involvement. Canada rarely gets the respect it deserves either.

[ewallace]

joedoe, I know you didn't want this to become political, but of course it will. Especially when LC goes on a typical bash the US rant.

Let me let you all in on a little secret. Most Americans...probably 99.99 percent of them, don't skip to work smiling and whistling and passing their neighbor while saying 'Morning Bob, isn't it grand that our country is so much better than every other country in the world?

However, most American's are proud to be Americans. Especially when everything we stand for comes under attack. We do become very, very patriotic. We don't wave our flags to say "Were better than you". It's because we are proud of who we are. If that is upsetting to others, it would lead me to believe that either jealousy or hatred is what is upsetting them.

[eulerfan]

joedoe,

I didn't grow up here. I grew up in various different countries. So I think I can offer you a unique perspective on this.

The U.S. government markets itself to its citizens. Ours is not the only country that does this. But there is a fairly vigorous campaign, made more aggressive in the past couple of years, to sell americans the idea that they are free. Not just free. The free-est.

You may not know this but we have a pledge of allegiance to our flag. When I was a little girl, we had to recite it every morning. Stand up, hand over heart, face the flag, "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, with liberty and justice for all."

So, your question is a lot like asking most Christians why they believe in God. You are going to get a million different answers but, in most cases, the real, true answer is, "Because that's what I was raised to do."

[eulerfan]

Originally posted by Laughing Cow


I guess the U.S.A. entered WW II for ALL those reasons and NOT because they got attacked at Pearl Harbour in 1941.

Funny that they entered WW II after it was already in full swing for a few Years and now all of a sudden fought for all the right reasons.

Maybe we should thank the Japanese for getting them involved in WW II.

Hmmm.

I'm glad you wrote that. That is a pervasive concept of that war, isn't it? That we fought from altruism. And everybody knows the facts. They know all about Pearl Harbor but they still don't see that it's the reason we fought in that war. It's kind of exacerbating.

[Radhnoti]

It's sad/funny/typical that someone would ask for good things about the U.S. on this board, leaving the attack drones no choice but to start attacking the U.S.

I love the U.S. because it is a republic, meaning (in theory) the rights of a minority is as protected as the majority.
I love the inalienable rights guaranteed me by birth...a few of which are mentioned in our Constitution (though some seem to believe those mentioned are ALL).
I love how my country can reward individual merit, hard work and uniqueness. I love the ethnic diversity of our populace...for an example, just look at the astronauts of Columbia.
The land is beautiful and abundant with natural resources, and we have people that know how to use and protect it.
For every organization/ideal there is a counter organization/ideal, it's like systems of checks and balances are ingrained in our souls.
We are capitalists, the opposite of socialists. Capitalism (in my opinion...supported by history thus far) is a system that encourages citizens to reach their maximum potential.
We are a fairly rich country (see the capitalism and resources mentioned earlier for a partial reason why), and anyone willing to work can be assured a relatively nice life.
We have a strong military willing to defend my way of life and to dissuade those foolish enough to call the U.S. their enemy. We owe those willing to serve in our military our most sincere praise and thanks.

Any U.S. citizen willing to honestly sit down and think about it could offer up these reasons and more, but if you were to ask "Why do you think the U.S. is so bad?" you'd receive many more replies.

[ewallace]

Good post Radhnoti.

[dwid]

Quote Laughing Cow: "I guess the U.S.A. entered WW II for ALL those reasons and NOT because they got attacked at Pearl Harbour in 1941.

Funny that they entered WW II after it was already in full swing for a few Years and now all of a sudden fought for all the right reasons.

Maybe we should thank the Japanese for getting them involved in WW II."

This is a ridiculous oversimplification.

First, nobody wanted to enter WW II. Even the people who were directly threatened, like the British, conceded an awful lot to Hitler before entering the war. World War I had left a lot of countries wanting to isolate themselves. The U.S. simply had the geographic isolation to bury their heads in the sand a little longer than the rest. Japan and Germany both declared war on us. Pearl Harbor taught the American public that if we didn't go to war, war would come to us, but we were supplying limited support to the allies prior to that.

Setting a standard of altruism for involvement in any armed conflict is absurd. War, especially in those days, is and was very expensive economically and in terms of human life. People in this country voluntarily made huge sacrifices once we were fully engaged and saying we did this simply for revenge for Pearl Harbor just doesn't cover it.

[dwid]

Quote Eulerfan: "I'm glad you wrote that. That is a pervasive concept of that war, isn't it? That we fought from altruism. And everybody knows the facts. They know all about Pearl Harbor but they still don't see that it's the reason we fought in that war. It's kind of exacerbating."

I don't think the concept that we fought from altruism is all that pervasive. The concept is generally that the effort was heroic. For better or worse, America ended up liberating much of Europe. Whether motivated from altruism or not, it is generally the sacrifices and actions of the WWII generation that are celebrated, not their motives.

[eulerfan]

Originally posted by Radhnoti
Any U.S. citizen willing to honestly sit down and think about it could offer up these reasons and more, but if you were to ask "Why do you think the U.S. is so bad?" you'd receive many more replies.

No. I actually disagree with many of the things you said. And I have put a lot of thought into it. Don't you dare put words in my mouth. That is what bothers me about patriotism.

I happen to believe that the merit of any society is found in how it treats and cares for its weakest members. I think there are people here who spend their entire lives working VERY hard with little or nothing to show for it. I think we treat our weakest members despicably and then complain about how well we treat them.

I do understand where you are coming from, why you think what you do. I just think, quite simply, that we have very different ideas of what ideal society would be. The most important thing to me may not be the most important thing to you.

What p!sses me off is that you would say that I am disagreeing with you because I've not thought about it, I'm blindly following somebody else. There is something a bit suspect about your inability to grant me my opinion.

[eulerfan]

Originally posted by dwid

I don't think the concept that we fought from altruism is all that pervasive. The concept is generally that the effort was heroic. For better or worse, America ended up liberating much of Europe. Whether motivated from altruism or not, it is generally the sacrifices and actions of the WWII generation that are celebrated, not their motives.

Maybe it isn't actually pervasive. But I, personally, see it a lot.

"We fought in that war because it was the RIGHT thing to do."

I'll give you this. I think that dropping the bombs on Japan was the worst thing my country has ever done. I will say that on many an occasion. I may be asking for that sentiment. See what I'm saying? It could be that people say that to me because I make them feel like they have to.

[ewallace]

I happen to believe that the merit of any society is found in how it treats and cares for its weakest members. I think there are people here who spend their entire lives working VERY hard with little or nothing to show for it.
I believe that merit is how society treats, or tries to treat ALL of it's members. Many of our societies' "weakest members" have made bad choices. Some have not. Just because you are born poor does not mean you have to stay poor in this country. I simply don't accept the "the education system is not on an equal plane". That statement is true. However, our school systems do not teach people what they need to know about money. That is knowledge that is freely accessable to all. It's up to the individual to seek that information out.

I appreciate the fact that you, Eulerfan, have thought things out, and have formed your own opinion, which differs from mine. And that is one thing I do love about this country, is that you and I can express our opinions without the fear of being executed for doing so. And no, we are not the only country where we can do this.

[Xebsball]

Originally posted by logic
I'm just Wondering
(What If)

What if U.S.A. didn't get involved in the european war.(They should have minded their own bussiness)instead it became W.W.2

What if U.S.A. didn't fight Hitler and Nazi Germany?

What if U.S.A. did nothing against Mousoulini and dictatorship Italy?

What if U.S.A. Looked the other way with the empire of Japan?

Where or what shape would the WORLD be in today?

What if U.S.A. didnt help finance MILITARY DICTATORSHIPS in Latin America (including my country) back then?

Freedoom... and yeah... blah blah... some other stuff... of the united states... blah blah AND Justice. Thats what you say aint it? ;)

[ewallace]

Get off your computer and go socialize with live people your age Xebs. Then you won't complain to us so much. :)

[KC Elbows]

I love the land itself, it's an amazing landscape.

I love that we are presently allowed to dissagree.

I love that we figured out that some of the things we did to get this far were wrong, and work to atone for them.

But mostly, it's like Eulerfan says.

[Xebsball]

ewallace :)

**** you ***** :)

[ewallace]

You'd be dissapointed. I like to sleep rather than cuddle. And I know that would not cater well to your rather delicate personality. :)

[Ford Prefect]

I happen to believe that the merit of any society is found in how it treats and cares for its weakest members.

That's called socialism or communism. The US is a republic based upon freedom of choice. The beautiful thing is that there are consequences to all your actions. There are some exceptions where somebody's situation isn't based on their/their parents actions, but those are the exception to the rule. The needs of the few don't outweight the needs of the many.


I think that dropping the bombs on Japan was the worst thing my country has ever done.

It's easy to say that 60 years later without having been there. At the time, it probably saved more American and Japanese lives than it took.

IMO.

[eulerfan]

ewallace,

I see what you are saying. I know your argument as I'm sure you know mine. I don't really think we need to get into it.

I don't think the U.S. is bad. I just think it's far from the greatest. You know? There are countries with free health care. There are countries where they say, "I don't care if it's moral or right, we are going to make prostitution legal so that we can protect the prostitutes and their clients." That's what I think is ideal.

But I am a bleeding heart liberal. I have no misconceptions about that. ;)

[eulerfan]

Originally posted by Ford Prefect


That's called socialism or communism. The US is a republic based upon freedom of choice. The beautiful thing is that there are consequences to all your actions. There are some exceptions where somebody's situation isn't based on their/their parents actions, but those are the exception to the rule. The needs of the few don't outweight the needs of the many.



It's easy to say that 60 years later without having been there. At the time, it probably saved more American and Japanese lives than it took.

IMO.

A) Yes, you are right. I know that. I prefer socialism to capitalism. Obviously. That was sort of my point.

B) I don't agree with that. If I did think it was the only way to save lives, I wouldn't think it the worst thing we ever did. I don't think it was neccessary. I mean, dropping them on Japan in the first place. But then where in Japan we chose to drop them...those were civilians. It was just horrible. To me.

[Xebsball]

http://images.deviantart.com/large/designs/deviousfun/Mega-Deviation_1_-_All_Avatars.jpg

Can you see my shiny shiny beautiful avatar there in the bottom? :D


ewallace

next time you dare you mess with me im gonna ****ing hunt you and kill you... ok no but i wont stop bugging you whenever you post here.

[ewallace]

next time you dare you mess with me im gonna ****ing hunt you and kill you... ok no but i wont stop bugging you whenever you post here.
A lot of good that would do genius. Then you would just annoy everyone else and they would put you on their ignore list, and you would never be able to get your point across.

Screwing with me will ruin your entire KFO experience. :)

[Xebsball]

shut up or i'll have to **** your mother's dead body in the graveyard GDA style, got it?

[ewallace]

My mother died in a plane wreck dude.

[Xebsball]

theres always grandma

[ewallace]

She didn't actually die in a plane crash, but you probably felt pretty crappy about it, hence the reason it wasn't a good idea. And if you didn't feel bad about it you spend way too much time on the computer and have become desensitized to real life, which I suspect is the case. Come on Xebs, you're from Brazil. Go learn some grappling and make a name for yourself here in the states.

[Xebsball]

go take care of your dear family members graves, you never know when im cuming

[FatherDog]

"Saying America's the greatest country in the world is kind of like saying you're the prettiest Denny's waitress. Just because you're the best doesn't mean you're good." -Doug Stanhope

Do I think America's the best place in the world to live? Depends on who you are. It's certainly one of the best. The UK or Australia or Canada might be better for some people, depending on their individual beliefs and predilications. But I think they all pretty much top the list for the majority of humans.

Does that mean I think the US is perfect and great and good? No, and I'll continue to ***** about the faults and flaws that I perceive in the US. Doesn't mean I don't want to live here, or that I'm somehow 'less a patriot' than those who try to defend whatever the US does. I consider myself more of a patriot than people who defend the US's actions, no matter what, because I'm realistic about my country; when it begins doing things I think are /wrong/, I *****, and complain, and work to change it. That's how America got started to begin with.

Any time the words "love it or leave it" come out of someone's mouth, it's a good bet that they've stopped really thinking about what you were saying, if they ever were to begin with.

[Ford Prefect]

A) Yes, you are right. I know that. I prefer socialism to capitalism. Obviously. That was sort of my point.

Got'cha. You should probably move then because even if we put all the liberals in charge over here, the US would still be a far cry from a socialist state. Ever think about moving to Europe? (not a jibe; an honest question)


B) I don't agree with that. If I did think it was the only way to save lives, I wouldn't think it the worst thing we ever did. I don't think it was neccessary. I mean, dropping them on Japan in the first place. But then where in Japan we chose to drop them...those were civilians. It was just horrible. To me.

I agree that it seems horrible today. You have to think about the time that this happenned though. Berlin, Stalingrad, London, etc were all shelled to rubble (some more than others obviously)during WW2. That was how war was fought. Looking back, a lot of old practices seem barbaric today when it was just commonplace then.

The Japanese people had declared their solidarity with the Emperor to fight any American invasion to the last man. Establishing a beach head and then troop movement in that country would have killed thousands upon thousands of American and Japanese soldiers as well as Japanese citizens. Hiroshima saved lives; I don't agree entirely with the bombing of Nakasaki though.

[eulerfan]

Originally posted by Ford Prefect


Got'cha. You should probably move then because even if we put all the liberals in charge over here, the US would still be a far cry from a socialist state. Ever think about moving to Europe? (not a jibe; an honest question)[/b][/B]

Yes, I have. A lot. My last boyfriend was a limey and he told me flat out that he didn't think I'd ever be really happy living in the states. He thinks I just don't really fit in here. Like, beyond political ideology. My whole attitude and personality.


About the Japan thing. I'll use an analogy. I know what the worst thing I have ever done was. I know why I did it. I know that a big reason for that action was that there were certain things that I didn't undertsand yet. I htought the world was a certain way and later learned that it wasn't. But, I will never call that action anything other than the worst thing I have ever done. Because that is what it was.

[eulerfan]

Originally posted by FatherDog
"Saying America's the greatest country in the world is kind of like saying you're the prettiest Denny's waitress. Just because you're the best doesn't mean you're good." -Doug Stanhope


http://www.laffstop.com/monthlycalander.htm

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[FatherDog]

euler: Oooh, lucky! Unfortunately, his tour schedule doesn't take him anywhere near Jersey this year.

[Black Jack]

Watchman:)

My thoughts exactly. The difference between being a subject and a citizen.

[MightyB]

Why is America great? Because it's not France.

LC, all those constitutions and bs that you're spewing are based on good ol' T. Jefferson's ideas of Liberty. If it wasn't for the US, Free Masons, and the Teamsters, everybody would live in a lightless dictatorship fearing monsters, the plague, and the pope.

You all suck...

The US is so great... Joyce decided to move here.

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by MightyB
Why is America great? Because it's not France.

LC, all those constitutions and bs that you're spewing are based on good ol' T. Jefferson's ideas of Liberty. If it wasn't for the US, Free Masons, and the Teamsters, everybody would live in a lightless dictatorship fearing monsters, the plague, and the pope.

You all suck...

The US is so great... Joyce decided to move here.

Hmmm, interesting point of view, but not 100% accurate I am afraid.

Free-masons weren't they a British group originally??

And I am sure that when my Country had compulsory schooling for everybody 250yrs ago it was because of the States, etc.
BTW, we were the first to do so since the Roman empire. ;)
Oh, dear me, my poor unenlightended ancestors.

Seeya.

[Ford Prefect]

What country is that? Prussia?

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by Ford Prefect
What country is that? Prussia?
Not quiet there yet. Hit those History books again. :D

[red5angel]

joedoe, your a moron for even starting this thread and calling it non political, and a mediocre troll at best.

Laughing Cow, can you please please please stop spouting off your own special brand of stupidity please? I mean it, you say some o fthe most ignorant and some of the most misinformed crap I have ever seen and not only that you but you can't shut up about it. for example:

"It is the loudmouth attitude that get you kicked in the mouth more than anything."

Right, kicked in the mouth? Thats why we are THE Super Power? Because we keep getting kicked in the mouth? :rolleyes:

Or how about saying that we americans believe we got into WWII to save the world? Even eulerfan shoudl know better for saying it, most americans know we got into the war because of pearl harbor, but most americans know the war couldn't have been won without us and if we hadn't entered the world would be a much different place right now. Maybe your own misplaced envy with ignorance?

I was going to cut and paste some more but basically this would have been the longest thread ever. I typically don't bother to reply to retards like you and I typically don't insult reatards by associating them with people lik eyou but in this case, much like your ingnorance, I am making a special case of it.

[eulerfan]

Originally posted by red5angel
Or how about saying that we americans believe we got into WWII to save the world? Even eulerfan shoudl know better for saying it, most americans know we got into the war because of pearl harbor, but most americans know the war couldn't have been won without us and if we hadn't entered the world would be a much different place right now. Maybe your own misplaced envy with ignorance?


Could you do me a favor and read the whole thread before you call me stupid?

:rolleyes:

you're stupid

:D

[joedoe]

Originally posted by red5angel
joedoe, your a moron for even starting this thread and calling it non political, and a mediocre troll at best.

Laughing Cow, can you please please please stop spouting off your own special brand of stupidity please? I mean it, you say some o fthe most ignorant and some of the most misinformed crap I have ever seen and not only that you but you can't shut up about it. for example:

"It is the loudmouth attitude that get you kicked in the mouth more than anything."

Right, kicked in the mouth? Thats why we are THE Super Power? Because we keep getting kicked in the mouth? :rolleyes:

Or how about saying that we americans believe we got into WWII to save the world? Even eulerfan shoudl know better for saying it, most americans know we got into the war because of pearl harbor, but most americans know the war couldn't have been won without us and if we hadn't entered the world would be a much different place right now. Maybe your own misplaced envy with ignorance?

I was going to cut and paste some more but basically this would have been the longest thread ever. I typically don't bother to reply to retards like you and I typically don't insult reatards by associating them with people lik eyou but in this case, much like your ingnorance, I am making a special case of it.

Thanks for the judgement red5 - I appreciate it.

Believe it or not, my intention was for it not to become political. I wanted to see if an idea I had was correct or not, but this has proved that it was completely incorrect.

So argue on. I will just continue on my moronic way.

[red5angel]

eulerfan, no offense intended, you should know better then to think I would call you stupid, although I am not above calling LC stupid. I am just saying that I think most americans don't believe we got in the war for any other reason then Pearl Harbor, or at the very least that Pearl Harbor wasn't about 90% responsible for our involvement. If you have had another experience then so be it but I doubt most people even believe that in Texas. ;)

joedoe, it was the worst attempt at trolling I have ever seen, not only did you not pull in most o fthe people worth pulling in, except for a few outstanding individuals, you just managed to send LC on one of his moronic tirades. Sorry bud, but I give it a 1.9.

[Laughing Cow]

r5a.

If YOU don't like what I say than put me on your ignore list.

Nobody ask you to read wht i psot nor ask you nor anyone to comment on it.

Hey, I guess Freedom of Speech ONLY applies to Americans like you.
FYI, this is the Internet, not the U.S.A. here everybody is EQUAL.

Don't like the truth and hear different views that ARE backed by Data than don't come out of your little shell and NEVER EVER take your pink glasses of.

But I guess the majority of the world that opposes the Iraq War are all delusional and fed the wrong information.

As for historicla facts, let me tell you something.

My History Teacher the Son of holocaust Survivors and I among other helped him compile an exhibit on the Holocaust with interviews, photos, live footage and all.

So go ahead put me on your ignore list, it doesn't make a differenc to me if you read my posts or not.

Have fun.

[Laughing Cow]

FYI.

Not sure if it has hit the U.S. media yet.

According to some reports it appears that IRAN is starting to re-process spent nuclear fuel and to mine uranium.

IRAN sez their goal is not nucelar weapons but power generation.

[red5angel]

as an example:

"Hey, I guess Freedom of Speech ONLY "

I asked you to shut up I didn't tell you too.

"Don't like the truth and hear different views that ARE backed by Data than "

still, STILL haven't used anything anyone else hasn't used to prove his point. All your data is backed up by similar sources yet this argument, tiredly continues to repeat in your threads whn others disagree with you. yawn.

"But I guess the majority of the world that opposes the Iraq War are all delusional and fed the wrong information."

Still on this tirade like you just don't get it so let me let you in on a little secret. This isn't about the rest of the world, this is about america and muslim extremist and Iraqs support of them. While it's nice to have UN backing, in the long run it isn't going ot matter because it isn't a UN issue. Now that you know, shhhhhhh


"As for historicla facts, let me tell you something.

My History Teacher the Son of holocaust Survivors and I among other helped him compile an exhibit on the Holocaust with interviews, photos, live footage and all."



:eek: !!! What could I have been thinking?! this is the internet and anything you say must be true since your facts and your arguments are so blatantly skewed in one direction!! Oh wait, their mixed in with your opinion? Ok, now we are getting somewhere ;)

try harder, try again.

[Laughing Cow]

R5a.

Put me already on your ignore list.

Because you are on mine.
:D :D

I guess Clinton's little White House romp came as a total surprise after he had a mistress for 12yrs too??

Oooh, sorry wrong and skewed information I got from Discovery Channel.

:p :p

[red5angel]

I can't help it, it's like a bus load of retards in a car accident, you just have to stare......

[joedoe]

Originally posted by red5angel
eulerfan, no offense intended, you should know better then to think I would call you stupid, although I am not above calling LC stupid. I am just saying that I think most americans don't believe we got in the war for any other reason then Pearl Harbor, or at the very least that Pearl Harbor wasn't about 90% responsible for our involvement. If you have had another experience then so be it but I doubt most people even believe that in Texas. ;)

joedoe, it was the worst attempt at trolling I have ever seen, not only did you not pull in most o fthe people worth pulling in, except for a few outstanding individuals, you just managed to send LC on one of his moronic tirades. Sorry bud, but I give it a 1.9.

It was not a troll attempt. Seriously, I just wanted to see if an idea I had was right or not and it wasn't.

It might help if I explain the idea:

I was thinking about the whole thing with lineage - you know, my art is better because of grandmaster XYZ. So I wanted to see if it was simply a human reflex (for want of a better term) to justify how good things are based on the deeds of others that have gone before.

Obviously my logic was flawed. And obviously I picked the wrong analogy to use.

So I will just continue on my moronic trolling ways. Have a good life :)

[Radhnoti]

eulerfan,

...I didn't mean that every U.S. citizen would agree with all my points, just that there's a million reasons to love this country. I accept that your thought that I was attempting to speak for you probably stems from my poor communication skills, as it was not my intent.

...however, I couldn't disagree with you more strongly about socialism being superior to capitalism. On to the specifics:
My wife has been a nurse for about 8 years, so my opinion of "universal healthcare" is more informed than some...it doesn't work well. Check the hospitals along the Canadian border and see how many Canadian's come down for the superior healthcare. "Socializing" it will lower the standards we U.S. citizens have become used to these days. Did you know that some doctors are already (from the "reforms" Clinton pushed through on the medical community) only agreeing to see private patients? The way they are working it is, you pay a yearly fee to be part of the "club". Only those paying dues can expect to see the doctor, who will even make house calls. This is to avoid losing money by seeing Medicare/Medicaid patients.
In my part of the state there are 4 major hospitals, it's expected that 2 of them will go under in the next 10 years because doctors/hospitals are not allowed to charge patients of Medicare/Medicaid enough to cover expenses. That means some folks will be an hour or more away from the nearest hospital if driving...fast. The good doctors are in the U.S., being PAID for their superior skills. Socialize it, which would involve lowering their pay and they'll go somewhere else where they are paid their worth. Our country is consistently short of nurses. They aren't paid enough for what they do/risk. Of the nurses currently working today, something like half of them are planning to NOT be a nurse in the next 5 years (like my wife). Socializing the system would certainly make the situation worse.
I apologize to joedoe for helping to highjack his thread, if he hadn't said, "So argue on." I may have been able to resist the temptation of replying. :) Seems like a good theory to me joe...maybe, like you said, with a different analogy? Everyone's political buttons are pushed over here right now.

[eulerfan]

Rad,

Gotcha. Lord knows I've tried to say one thing and ended up saying another so many times I should know better. Sorry to snap at you.

But I think you are missing the point about Health care. You really think that if it can't be the best in the world it isn't worth doing? So what if the people who can afford great health care want to buy great health care? Let them. If you remove free health care because it is poor, you make the problem worse.

The people who got bad health care suddenly get NO health care. How is that better? What exactly do you mean by, "we U.S. citizens"?

I mean, look at the state of public schools. Look at how many rich people decide to send their kids to private schools. Do you really think the result of this state of affairs should be the abolishment of free schooling?

"In my part of the state there are 4 major hospitals, it's expected that 2 of them will go under in the next 10 years because doctors/hospitals are not allowed to charge patients of Medicare/Medicaid enough to cover expenses."

I don't know what this is about. Instead of paying for people's health care outright, the government is forcing hospitals to do it and crippling them as a result? That isn't a fault in socialism. That is a fault in retardation. Don't you think?

The good doctors are in the U.S. being PAID but we're short of nurses because they aren't being PAID? Where are you going with that? You've sort of lost me. Are you saying our health care is good or bad?

[red5angel]

eulerfan, no problem, I didn't actually know if the tone of your post was bad or not, just wanted to make sure you understood what I was getting at and that I didn't mean to offend you.

joedoe, perhaps I owe you an apology. I am getting sick of these US threads, mainly because it ALWAYS gets political, and ALWAYS attracts guys like LC. you however have to admit that if you were to see a post such as yours, would you not too think it was a troll attempt?

[joedoe]

No problem. I can see where you are coming from, though I didn't agree with the abuse :).

Once I saw the direction the thread was heading, I wanted to lock the thread or stop it some way, but I couldn't. At least now it has settled down a little :)

[red5angel]

hehe, usually I am not the kind of person that goes for abuse but it just seems like certain people, not you ;), are just begging for it!! Anyway, all is well in Red country.....

[jun_erh]

Q. Why is the United States the greatest country in the world?


A. The Howard Stern Radio Show

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by joedoe
Once I saw the direction the thread was heading, I wanted to lock the thread or stop it some way, but I couldn't. At least now it has settled down a little :)

To do that edit the first Post (yours) and delete it the whole THREAD will be deleted.

cheers.

[joedoe]

Thanks Laughing Cow. I am not sure if I should do that now, considering all the effort you and some others have put into the thread. Contraversial as it was, and despite the fact that it was misdirected (by my own fault) I think there are some things said here that people may find informative.

It is always good to get many viewpoints :)

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by joedoe
It is always good to get many viewpoints :)

Fully agree to that one.

cheers.

[joedoe]

I might just ask an admin to lock the thread.

['MegaPoint]

Originally posted by OdderMensch
'MegaPoint
No, cause in his world, you would be shot for saying such things.

And in this country you can be shot for words that shake things up, threaten the status quo or shed true light on the ill light of the powers that always have been. Just ask Martin Luther King or Malcolm X.

You people talk about countries and ideologies, religions and corporations as if these things were not interdependent. The fact is that certain humans, or maybe less than humans, with no conscience keep doing whatever the hell they want, masking their intentions with an "apparently" evolving or changing structure which in actuality is the same mind trip and control game. It's all the same beast. Just think about it- PANORAMICALLY.

As for the 2nd WW. Let's not get started on how it was a worldwide conspiracy to jumpstart a global economic depression, by "redistribtuing" property and wealth as well as sparking industrialization (especially in the USA). Population control is important, too. That kinda' talk could create some waves, hahaha!

Sometimes reasons are quite simple. Other-times, justification may be quite contrived and complex.

In the words of the eminent rhythmic american poet, Prime Minister Pete Nice " Oh what a tangled web they weave! A grin shows a trick up their sleeeve! Deceivers, stupefying through fables, say let's make a deal at the dinner table..."; pretty appropriate for this discussion! It is a "dog eat dog world" after all, right?! <Chomp! Yum!!!>