Who says that MAarts don`t work?

[WaDo]

Everytime I watch the Street Fighting threads I have to
read that MArtists are dreamers and that they will be beaten up
by everyone who is running around.
What is wrong with MA? Where are the mistakes in the training
and what should be trained to improve the possibilities of selfdefence?

[dnc101]

I get a little tired of hearing this as well. It's ok to question the effectiveness of what you are doing if you are looking for ways to improve. But if you come to the conclusion it won't work, what's the point in staying with it? Self improvement? Fitness? There are many better ways to do those things if that's all you want out of it. This attitude reminds me of what happened to Tai Chi- it was degraded to a 'Hippie Dance' because it was thought that fitnes was cool, fighting was uncool. Turns out the dancers didn't even get half the health bennifits, and no self defense skills at all. But Tai Chi Chuan fa is a serious martial arts style, if taught and practiced correctly.

Some of the people who say martial arts are no good for self defense are the same ones who post 'run away' every time a serious martial arts question is posted here. Others may want to disrespect traditional martial arts in order to promote their own version of reality training. I have no problem with some of these systems, and would recomend them if you need to learn combat tactics quickly. But I do have a problem with those who didn't have the determination to stick with a traditional style, then suddenly get enlightened by the adds the martial arts mags that promise to make you invinceable on the streets in one weekend.

Rant over:mad:

[MightyB]

It's all Attitude. Attitude determines success.


Look at a lot of MAists. A lot of them get in to learn how to defend themselves because inwardly they are afraid. They are fearful people. They are afraid of people, they are afraid to be hit, they are afraid of just about anything... they are fearful people. They think that taking a martial arts will compensate for that. It won't... it can't...

They think that martial arts are the cure all for their inadequacies. They think that they are becomming super men... they're wrong...

Inside, they are still that small, wimpy, pimply, pencil-necked geek that plays too many video games and watches way too much TV.

Then, they somehow get convinced by an unscrupulous fearful teacher that martial arts aren't for fighting. They believe this. They think that they are getting strong, spiritual, that they are superior to the thugs that they were trying to protect themselves from. This superiority is a fallacy... it's a thought... a persona... a self image that's built on bull $hit without experience. It's always "Our Great Great Great Grandmaster used this once in a deathmatch 300 years ago, and he killed some guy!" Whatever...

If you're a martial artist, you can break this cycle. You can ask yourself if you are afraid to be hit. You can answer this honestly, then you can compete in a full contact fight. You will learn, painfully, who you are... who you really are... then, and only then, can you grow. You then are free to become a skilled martial artist who can fight.

[Viper555]

Any martial art can work if it is trained right. I knew this woman that knew Tai Chi (and had been taking it for 5 years) and I wanted to spar with her. At the time I had been training in karate(the point sparring crap) for about 3 years and figured I could take her. Well we start and no matter what technique I throw at her she is always at of the way. It started to **** me off and I started throwing all kinds of wild fast punches and kicks but I still couldn't hit her. What really got me was that she seemed to be moving VERY slowly. It was so frustrating. After a couple of minutes of this she does some knid of weird move where she just kind of "pushes"(for lack of a better word) with her fingertips and I fell down.

So, basically, if any martial art is trained right it WILL be effective in a fight.

[dnc101]

Originally posted by Viper555
I knew this woman that knew Tai Chi... she does some knid of weird move where she just kind of "pushes"(for lack of a better word) with her fingertips and I fell down.

She took your root:) .

[azwingchun]

Those d*mn hippie Tai Chi dancers!!!! LOL ;)

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by dnc101


She took your root:) .

As long as she didn't take him by his "root".

:D

[BaldMonk]

In order to use martial arts to fight you gotta go places a lotta people don't want to go. People who call themselves martial artist train twice a week for 2 hours, can't do they're techniques in the air much less against a resisting opponent, do forms in a half a$$ed fashion and think they can fight. It feels good to be able to do a form and have people ohh and ahh, but it's necessary to dissasemble your forms and work on the basics. Then you have to work these basics against resisting opponents. People are always looking for secret techniques to help them become deadly. Fighting is like farming. You've gotta put in steady hard work to get results. It's not glamourous, you gotta enter a realm of uncertainty and take licks. Critical thinking has to be employed and experimentation results in bumps and bruises. Many teachers don't know how to teach usage. The list is extensive. The long and short of it is that there's a small minority of people who are able to use their arts because most practicioners don't train properly. There's been threads on the kickboxing trap before so I won't go into it

My .02

Baldy

[TkdWarrior]

Martial arts teaches u techniques first
then discipline
without discipline u can't hav technique too...
without technqiue u can't fight(yea u can hav lucky punch/kick)

fighting is NOT all about Techniques, It's about Will, Guts, Attitude.
fighitng is about choosing the Right thing for Right Time...
it's got nothing to do with Martial arts...
with Martial arts u can improve wat u can choose...
-TkdWarrior-

[Ravenshaw]

Originally posted by BaldMonk
It feels good to be able to do a form and have people ohh and ahh, but it's necessary to dissasemble your forms and work on the basics. Then you have to work these basics against resisting opponents.

I agree wholeheartedly. To know and practice the applications of your techniques is what really makes your kungfu (or karate or taekwondo, etc.) combat-worthy. And it takes a *lot* of practice.

I reccomend isolating one or two techniques from a form then practice and analyze them. Work on their application with a partner and then practice using them in a sparring match. Repeat this for any technique you wish to add to your fighting repretoire. With the guidance of an experinced sifu, this process is especially effective.

The forms themselves can only teach you the rough movements, and it is up to the student to make the distinction between fighting and performing, whichever route he may choose.

[Captain Chicken]

The judgement of Martial artists vs. other forms is partially invalid because of the rules governing no holds barred fights. What I have seen is a small roped off (sometimes caged off) areas where both fighters wore gloves. How could I maneuver? How can you use an open hand technique with gloves? My other question is "How many Martial artists truly train because they want to hurt people?" Ultimate fighting types like to destroy people. Isn't this the deffinition of evil?

[Merryprankster]

At the risk of being trolled, I'll respond to your assertions in a reasoned way. After this, it's probable that I'll just make fun of you.

A ring is no more restrictive (and in some cases, they are less restrictive) than a small barroom or a kitchen or a living room, etc. I've been to plenty of places in cities that had less room to maneuver than a ring. Like my friends NYC apartment.

The gloves in MMA fights are open finger, and open palm. The glove is held in place by thumb and finger loops of varying sizes and shapes, depending on the glove. They are designed this way so that you don't interfere with grabbing, manipulation, palm strikes, etc. If you can't use an open hand technique with this configuration, I'm mystified.

MMA types who train for the ring do so because they want to test their skills. They do so willingly, with a willing opponent, who is also there to test their skills. Afterwards, they usually party together or have a beer or two. It's fun. And it's fun because it's two competitors, not (except in some cases) a personal grudge match. I would hardly call the camaraderie of two people who recognize the hard work they both put in to try and be as good as they can "evil."

[Budokan]

I couldn't agree more. A weasley gutless wanker who lives in his mother's basement and beats off to "Charmed" decides to study MA. Know what? He's still a weasley gutless wanker who lives in his mother's basement and beats off to "Charmed"...except he also knows some kata. Big fuggin' deal. :rolleyes:

MA isn't a magic bullet that can cure your 'loserness' anymore than anything else is. Sadly, there are dweebs out there who think it does. They will NEVER be martial artists.

['MegaPoint]

MAs are ultimately for one purpose- giving one options in the face of physical confrontation. Self inprovement is a result and not necessarily an aim, of true MAs. Through years of hard, honest, physical (yet safe) and diligent training, regardless of the format, the end result is often a positive evolution of self. Getting "acquainted" with pain, physicality and mortality will teach one to use their knowledge wisely. That is, if they have a conscience.

Learning to think and rethink in a myriad of ways and circumstances, being able to solve problems that you were unsure how to handle before you had the knowledge, is a hallmark of proper "schooling" whatever the subject. These lessons transcend combat. That is why Harvard's MBA program requires study of Miyamoto Musashi's (Bada$$ Samurai from way back)
"The Book of Five Rings". It is a combat manual in many ways, but it is also applicable to the business world.

Intent is everything when it comes to proper training. What are you training for? If it's for fun and competition as well as solid all around self-defense skills, any number of systems can answer your needs. If you are not worried about competition, are interested in knowledge and other cultures and in learning self-preservation then there are styles out there for that. In the end you have to be careful with the terms you use to define the fighting arts. If you do a "martial art" then the first word says it all. War is not good, and neither is aggression. From these horrible occurences comes the MAs. That is the fact of the matter.

If you study a "do (Chinese Tao/Dao)" or philosophical way of living and training vs. a martial science or art ("jutsu" in Japanese) then you have to understand that your intent and training purpose may be different. Self improvement and installation of "empathy" are two typical goals. The combat training is often a caveat and focus can become foggy. Fighting is simple. Too much pomp and circumstance can detract from the real purpose of a MA. Also, being in a full contact competition and being a winner or loser has no real bearing on whether or not you can defend yourself against what will most likely be an "untrained" fighter on the streets. Those of you who have had the misfortune of using your skills on the streets for real, can attest to this. Still, learning to spar is a good tool for young or new martial artists. After a certain point it can also ingrain many stupid techs and bad habits. Don't be fooled by smoke-n-mirrors.

Fighting is entropic- like nature. Structure and competition is far from chaotic. Therefore, to take any "system" to heart as effective for entropy is ridiculous. Ultimately you must be structured in your entropy to be successful. Fighting is NOT chess! I completely agree with real warriors like Bushi Sokon Matsumura and Miyamoto Musashi. Understand and respect the spirit of the thing in which you train. It will return the favor by revealing itself to you. Train half-a$$ed, with the wrong intent, and the return will ultimately be negative, either physically, mentally or both. Ask Mark Kerr.

Forge yourself in the fires of your soul. Test yourself in your inadequacies. Understand the significance of "mushin" (no mind) and "ku", the void. We are all solo travelers in the end. Guidance is one thing, but indocrination or blind loyalty is another. All the reward you need, and knowledge, is there within you. Hopefully with proper sacrifice, time and training everyone can realize this. Don't be in hurry to become proficient at mediocrity. There are no shortcuts. In the end the cream always rises to the top. Traditional ways that have stood the test of time attribute to this. In 5 years where will Krav Maga and MMAs be? If they're still around it will still be superficial and ho-hum <yawn>! Sounds philosophical, but that was gleaned outside of my MAs training. Or was it?

[Great Sage]

Originally posted by Budokan
I couldn't agree more. A weasley gutless wanker who lives in his mother's basement and beats off to "Charmed" decides to study MA. Know what? He's still a weasley gutless wanker who lives in his mother's basement and beats off to "Charmed"...except he also knows some kata. Big fuggin' deal. :rolleyes:

MA isn't a magic bullet that can cure your 'loserness' anymore than anything else is. Sadly, there are dweebs out there who think it does. They will NEVER be martial artists.

And what makes you and other so-called martial arts any different from people who practice in their basement? It's naive to assume that the Martial Arts cannot change a person or their skill level.

Who are you to designate "losers" from winners? The only losers on this forum are those who believe they are better than other people, yet have never done anything more significant. If the MA were so useless, why would people even bother? I've personally trained students who became better people and fighters through their martial arts experience.

[Captain Chicken]

If I am wrong, I can admit such and be corrected. I am here to dialogue, and perhaps learn. I have no experience in ring fighting, and I do not know anybody who participates in those contests, so I was going with outside observations. The ring looks confining, and I have not really seen anyone try to use a precision open hand technique wearing gloves. Personally, I have entered martial arts for self defence and ki developement, not attack. The evasive steps and blocking give me protection that my father's western boxing does not have. Most MAs I know would not really enjoy severely hurting someone, as those types of contests seem to promote. Perhaps I am guilty of judging the more agressive wing of MA as I have been judged. If so, I appologise.

[Merryprankster]

I should hope that your system involves more and different things than boxing. Boxing is a complete hand art, but that's it. By complete, I'm talking about it having a complete fight strategy. I'm not talking about number or variety of techniques. It doesn't really address kicks, throws, etc. So as a complete hand art, it's all set. As a complete fighting art, clearly, something is lacking, because it is taught, primarily as a punching art with your only defensive concerns being punches from the other guy. Teach a boxer how to stay on his feet vs. throws and shots, and teach him/her to deal with kicks and knees and you've actually got a complete fighter. But a boxer typically doesn't train this way unless other goals are in mind.

However, boxing does provide an excellent base and an excellent lesson in footwork and balance for those who care to examine it, and a decent boxer is a dangerous opponent. They also have a tendency to hit pretty freakin hard. :D

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Great Sage


And what makes you and other so-called martial arts any different from people who practice in their basement? It's naive to assume that the Martial Arts cannot change a person or their skill level.

Who are you to designate "losers" from winners? The only losers on this forum are those who believe they are better than other people, yet have never done anything more significant. If the MA were so useless, why would people even bother? I've personally trained students who became better people and fighters through their martial arts experience.

You misunderstood his post...

[Matrix]

Originally posted by MightyB
It's all Attitude. Attitude determines success.

Look at a lot of MAists. A lot of them get in to learn how to defend themselves because inwardly they are afraid. They are fearful people. They are afraid of people, they are afraid to be hit, they are afraid of just about anything... they are fearful people. They think that taking a martial arts will compensate for that. It won't... it can't... MightyB, You are right on the money. Regardless of the MA, if, when it comes time to deal with the situation at hand, you freeze in fear them you are lost.

Having said this, I disagree with Viper555 who states that any martial art will work, "if it is trained right." The problem is that there are some schools that just don't have a clue. If you have weak fundamentals, then you have nothing to build on. Training in a flawed system cannot be over come with training harder. How can you "train right" in something that is wrong right out of the gate. The story of a tai chi person taking it to a point-sparring guy does not surprise me.

Your mileage may vary,
Matrix

[SevenStar]

because mentality plays a huge role. The untrained guys that beat trained MA obviously aren't trained right, but they have the proper mindset to deal with the situation. If you are training somewhere where you are getting that mindset instilled, then what you are training in is not that major a factor.

[CD Lee]

MightyB is dead-on accurate in his statements.

Just imagine why some untrained person can beat a trained martial artist or even a good boxer. With bad technique and no formal skills to speak of, they know how to fight. They have full intention and full belief that they will hurt you and win. They are only focused on beating you. They are not thinking of moves and techniques and wasting time. They try to smash you, and hit you hard, or throw you to the ground *any way* they can. They are not confused or remembering anything. They have YOU in mind, and are targeting anything that will end the fight quickly.

I think we have to have this same mindset to start. Then we add martial arts and skills onto that mindset.

[HuangKaiVun]

Attitude and physique are important, but HOW A PERSON TRAINS is even more important.

Nobody can totally simulate the violence and rhythm of a real fight, but one can approach it from different angles. That's what I try to do in my school - train different drills so that we all get a chance to feel in bits and pieces what it's like to be in a real fight.

What my students tell me is that when they've been in real fights, they just GO. Just yesterday, a student of mine was attacked by a man. She used Tai Chi's "Ward Off" among other things to get him, though she didn't know exactly what she did until we talked about it afterwards.

Classical kung fu isn't about learning "Do Technique A for Scenario B". It's about liberating one's reflexes and potential to the best of the individual's ability.

So far, kung fu has worked for my students on the street.

[Black Jack]

SevenStar- Good post. I agree the mental side is HUGE and if I was to pick any one factor of highest value in a self defense situation it would be mindset.

[greendragon]

Yes, attitude. I generally have no bad intent and only nuetralize an attacker, maybe push them down. I used to slap them across the face, that was a mistake. Anyway, the Tai Chi hippie thing works until i get hit or feel in danger of getting hurt. Then a red dragon comes up out of the middle of my head and it is some inner part of me. It is like way past intent and i destroy the attackers in a creative and violent fashion. When the dragon goes away they are really messed up and i feel a little bad for them. This rarely happens because people will fall into harmony with good vibrations... unless their destiny is harmony on a larger scale.

[HuangKaiVun]

My grandmother has the greatest combative attitude, but that won't save her in a streetfight.

Chances are that holds for all of your grandmothers as well.

Now let's show a grandmother some stranger awareness TECHNIQUES.

Watch the survival rate go up.

[Black Jack]

Huang-

Stranger awareness is a part of a combative mindset. IMO it is based more on PRINCIPLES and SKILLS than any set TECHNIQUE.

Awareness is the ability to read people and situations from which to anticipate violence before it happens. Most awareness skills are predominatly non-verbal. 55% is based through body language, 38% through voice and only 7% based on actual words.

Picking up basic principles like "passive scanning" can help a person be more aware of his surrondings and the behavior of people around him as well as setting up a personal interpretation system. The best system I know of is from the famous rifleman Col. Jeff Cooper. It is a color coded system that provides a very easy mental map on awareness principles and your choice of response actions, based on the colors white, yellow, orange and red.

Another method for a person to be more aware in their everyday lives is that they need to take a look at themselves and their own victim potential.

[HuangKaiVun]

I think we're differing on the definition of "mindset", Black Jack.

To me, "mindset" in self defense is just wanting to be safe.

Doing something about it via stranger prevention - that's TECHNIQUE to me because it needs to be TAUGHT.

Otherwise little kids wouldn't have to be taught SET TECHNIQUES in terms of keeping their heads up, to not accept candy or money from strangers, to recognize only those adults who they have contact with, and such.

Instinct and willpower are not enough to keep attackers from closing in on you.

[Black Jack]

Those are kids, which is a much different mindset, depending on the age, than a functional adult.

Telling a kid to not give their addresses over the phone is not a technique, its just a common sense principle. Same goes for imparting information on how to be more aware in one's life. It's not like teaching a block or a kick, its not a byrote sequence of events, its more something you practice doing in a passive manner, just being aware and learning to listen to that voice in your head that tells you things are not right.

Now you could call "passive scanning" a technique, but I would not, it falls more into a principle.

"Instinct and willpower are not enough to keep attackers from closing in on you"- Even though I did not state this I will remark on it.

That is not allways true, carrying yourself like a victim can invite predators, your weakness is carried in your body language.

Mindset is what you make of it, to me it is taking responsibility for one's own safety, to be pro-active and not re-active in that approach.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by HuangKaiVun
My grandmother has the greatest combative attitude, but that won't save her in a streetfight.

Chances are that holds for all of your grandmothers as well.

Now let's show a grandmother some stranger awareness TECHNIQUES.

Watch the survival rate go up.

Actually, my grandmother is 64 and two years ago, I had to hold her back -she hit a twenty-something year old man in the mouth. When I held her back, she threw a chair at him, and then a flower pot. She's never done MA. never been taught anything. BUT, she's been through alot of sh!t in her life, and she has a mindset of "If they attack me, I hurt them first".

[SevenStar]

As for the techniques you're talking about, I'm more with blackjack - those are just simple principles of awareness. Teaching people to walk a few feet away from the wall so that they can see around the corner, looking under the car as you approach it, etc.

the way you carry yourself is a big thing. some people just look like victims. who would you think is more likely to be attacked - the man who's skinny, shy looking and walks with his head down, or the big muscular, proud guy who walks with his head up and pays attantion to what's going on around him?

[HuangKaiVun]

Then y'all might as well quit training.

Forget stranger prevention classes, forget the stuff that police officers do to educate people. Go to your local police departments and tell them that they're WASTING THEIR TIME.

It's common sense, you say. That means that anybody should just KNOW this stuff. Scary.

You guys are going to put people into the grave.

[TzuChan]

Pfsh, by the amount of people that says their MA won't help in real life fights, go find yourself another class .. how could you EVER say this if you're getting descent training ? I hear everybody talk about stuff as if they only watch techniques on a video or something...

How about how you're bound to be the fittest person of the two of you ? How about you're probably the only one of the two who has had his nose beaten inside and out every once in a while ? You seem to insist you forget about your training once you get in a real fight ? If this happens to you every time you get in a fight, get a new teacher, or train harder. Do you really think a non trained person will stand against a descent low kick ? he will drop like a bag . I would have never been able to take a good kick on my leg without all the training I've good to get tougher in areas. I take the subway every day and every night, and the train after that, the youth I see there is the kind you describe as the perfect warrior or something, they are agressive as hell, they seem to want nothing else but fight, but most of them don't know wtf just happened if you blocked and you're suddenly the attacker.

No freezing is not the only part of a martial art, it's just a rexlef where your mind gets overloaded, it can be untaught. And if you train let's say twice a week, that means you spar at least 10 times a week, against non prepared attacks, how could you say this doesn't help you in a real life situation ? It might take you a couple of years to be effective in street fights, but that doesn't mean it's not effective.

I don't mean to attack anybody with this, but I can not believe someone takes MA as just a hobby for weak persons, just to make them 'feel' secure, or they take MA but feel it's not effective at all. I played soccer indoor with a kickbox teacher of a friend of mine, he has been European champion (ok he's a bit better then the rest of us) we (as everybody probably has) got in a fight when we played somewhere else, against a team we didn't know. It was clear that the fight was over in 10 seconds when they saw how he owned everybody that tried to take on someone of our team. Have you ever seen a non trained person block a high kick IF they block it already .. Have you ever seen a non-trained person react when they get hit in the face ? That's right .. they don't move anymore .. Have you ever seen how transparent the punches/kicks are from an untrained person ?

Now just because you have a card saying you practice MA doesn't mean you're a MA, but I can say that there's alot of people here that are MA and with them their training WILL 200% certain make a difference in real life. You must be confusing not being patient enough with not being good at MA.

There has to be a person in your class from who you say '**** wouldn't want to be the one robbing him..' I for example have this with two people in my class, BUT they have been practicing for over 8 years ... that's where the patience kicks in.

[Black Jack]

Huang- You are a total riot. You must not be able to read either.

Again for the reading impaired. No one said to not take a stranger prevention class or what have you. Just that they are not byrote techniques. They are prinicples to incorporate into your own lifestyle in a "active" manner.

keerist:rolleyes:

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by TzuChan

How about how you're bound to be the fittest person of the two of you ? How about you're probably the only one of the two who has had his nose beaten inside and out every once in a while ? You seem to insist you forget about your training once you get in a real fight ? If this happens to you every time you get in a fight, get a new teacher, or train harder. Do you really think a non trained person will stand against a descent low kick ? he will drop like a bag . I would have never been able to take a good kick on my leg without all the training I've good to get tougher in areas. I take the subway every day and every night, and the train after that, the youth I see there is the kind you describe as the perfect warrior or something, they are agressive as hell, they seem to want nothing else but fight, but most of them don't know wtf just happened if you blocked and you're suddenly the attacker.

how about the guy that you end up fighting is a collegiate wrestler, who is not only in better shape, but is just as skilled, if not moreso? Or, how about the guy you fight is an ex con convicted of several assault charges - the killer instinct he's got is bound to be tremendous. leg kicks definitely aren't fight enders... I, for example, squat over 400 lbs - I have thick legs. Leg kicks have never bothered me much, even when I first started training. You sound like one of the theoretical guys who cannot speak from experience.... You are making too many assumptions.

No freezing is not the only part of a martial art, it's just a rexlef where your mind gets overloaded, it can be untaught. And if you train let's say twice a week, that means you spar at least 10 times a week, against non prepared attacks, how could you say this doesn't help you in a real life situation ? It might take you a couple of years to be effective in street fights, but that doesn't mean it's not effective.

the sparring doesn't matter if it's light contact. the freezing issue addresses people who don't spar full contact. And it's absolutely true. Freezing and tunnel vision.

Have you ever seen a non trained person block a high kick IF they block it already .. Have you ever seen a non-trained person react when they get hit in the face ? That's right .. they don't move anymore ..

exact same thing happens to the trained person who doesn't contact spar.

Now just because you have a card saying you practice MA doesn't mean you're a MA, but I can say that there's alot of people here that are MA and with them their training WILL 200% certain make a difference in real life. You must be confusing not being patient enough with not being good at MA.

I'm 25.... been training off and on since I was 6 and constant since I was about 17. patience is not a problem at all. In that time, I've seen MA lose in fights. I've seen black belts in MA lose in continuous fighting tournaments to younger belts for the same reasons I stated above. I've been in the ring and fought a person who froze and got tunnel vision after he was hit. I've also been on the receiving end. What happens in both real life and in the ring depends on how you train, and bottom line is that not everyone trains properly.

There has to be a person in your class from who you say '**** wouldn't want to be the one robbing him..' I for example have this with two people in my class, BUT they have been practicing for over 8 years ... that's where the patience kicks in.

And if blackjack, WD, MSToo and I jump them, guess what? they will get their arses kicked. you don't know who you will be fighting in the street, what they trained in, or how many there will be - that's why you have to be cautious.

What if it was only one person, and they had a knife? Odds are still in the attacker's favor.

MA training won't make you invincible. All it does is give you better odds of surviving.

[SevenStar]

LOL, huang is cool, but sometimes getting through to him is like trying to get through to RD! :D

[Black Jack]

Sevenstar:D

Not as cool as Disco Stu though. No one is as cool as Disco Stu.

For real though, if he looked at the post, I mean really read it instead of jumping the gun to be right, he would see he made up his own arguement.

Either way I love him. I want to hug him. :eek:

[TzuChan]

Originally posted by SevenStar


I agree to everything that you said, and everything you say is something you can read in between the lines in my post. And by saying the person you fight could be a wrestler, means an MA DOES make a difference =] (However I can't see if you are pro or contra MA effectiveness)

You can't say MA doesn't help, unless you (I'm not talking to YOU sevenstar, just in general) yourself are getting the worst possible training. A fighting art without full contact sparring is not good imho. I'm talking about MA when i'm talking about an MA where full contact sparring is a part of your class.

[Viper555]

How do you train SevenStar?

[Good, better, Me]

If you don't take Martial Arts training seriously, then there won't be almost any help in real life combat situation. True Martial Artist dedicate years and years to the study of their system, and it takes a long time to understand so that it can be used effectivly for self-defence. It's all about dedication, you have to be willing NOT TO train MA only as a hobby, but to dedicate most of your free time for training. 3 hours a day, 7 days a week is a good amount of practise. If one is able to dedicate so much of their time to the study of martial arts, then it becomes more then a hobby and then after 10+ years you will be able to understand your system of MA.

It's ridiculous to say that Kung Fu styles are not reality-based systems. Most Kung Fu systems have been developed and practised for A LOT longer then any Modern Martial Art/System of Mixed Martial Art. Some useless techniques have been dropped out, some have been saved, Kung Fu has developed and existed for much longer time then kung fu systems. Those who diss Kung Fu and other traditional arts, haven't trained in a traditional system long enough to understand how to use them...