Full contact Stick fighting

[yenhoi]

Anyone?

I did some tonight, it hurts.

:eek:

[shaolin kungfu]

I've never actually done any stick fighting, but I saw some a while back. Looked like it hurt. They weren't even wearing pads :eek:.

[Liokault]

I have seen some done as a demonstration at a san shou event. It looked totaly pointless. 2 guys 4 sticks and 2 full sets of kendo gear (think it was kendo...looked like it).

They just stood in front of each other and hit at will. I saw no defensive moves just chain hitting....was I missing somthing?

[Ford Prefect]

The Dog Brothers (in Cali) to full-contact stick fighting with just hockey gloves and a fencing mask. No other body part is padded and everything is legal. Forum member knifefighter has fought at their "Gatherings".

[Mr Punch]

Didn't used to go full contact but used to practise a lot with sticks and bokken and no padding. Most of the time we were trying to control the strikes, but often got very bad bruising and cuts and on two occasions slight concussion. Looking back on it, it was ****ing crazy.

[apoweyn]

i used to compete on the WEKAF tournament circuit for full contact stick fighting.

in a sense, i see liokault's point. when i competed in double stick, it really was a slugfest with little enough defensive strategy. part of that, i chalk up to lack of experience on my part. (and fatigue. my footwork was arse by that time.) but part of it is simply the reality of that situation. four sticks in a confined space is going to be pretty freaking chaotic.


stuart b.

[Mr Punch]

Yep, and when you compete in kendo, most people just see a frenzy of random straight strikes punctuated by periods of calm... and they certainly don't recognize any skill. Kendo against Ni-ten Ryu (Musashi's two sword style) looks even dafter: the Ni-Ten stylist has to make a more definite hit because they are only using one hand's power, so a lot more of their strikes are discounted, though even with full bougu (armour) even the puny looking strikes really hurt! Of course, the best guys do nothing but sucker you into an opening and then finish you!

[apoweyn]

mat,

i think that was precisely what was missing from my stickfighting back then. yeah, the sort of 'baseline' for the stickfight was going to be this chaotic exchange of rattan. but then there should probably be a moment when you pull out the slick piece of footwork or something and do something decisive.


stuart b.

[Oso]

I think that technique can be lost when you put the protection on.

No protection except for goggles of some sort and work from low
contact to as high a contact as you can in the same sparring
session.

[apoweyn]

technique can definitely be lost with the gear on. conversely, though, you're not going to take too many full contact stickpoints in the kidney before you pack it in. (at least, i'm not. the last one i got sucked.)

i wonder how often the dog brothers do what they do. that said, it makes grappling a much more attractive proposition to me personally. take that weapon out of play so you can stop getting hammered with it.


stuart b.

[Mr Punch]

I think kendo armour helps to enhance the technique. Here's why:

Admittedly kendo was developed as a competition art, but the basics of kenjutsu are still trained in kata, and the continuation of most winning strikes are clearly delivering the cut in a fashion that would cut through the target if using live blades.

Even the basic shomen strike to the top of the head, or the kote strike to the wrist are practised through all the basic levels as large circles: cutting strikes. They are then shortened to seemingly straight whipping strikes, which still follow a small part of the same circlular motion, just more efficiently.

My point is, is that kendo allows the practice of similar skills to kenjutsu but in a safer setting.

The technique is paramount. The timing, the footwork, the part of the shinai that you use to 'cut', the weight of the kote (gloves) and the shinai being the same as a katana... are as close as you can get to training kenjutsu with a live partner.

The armour in kendo doesn't do much.

Head armour: in kendo the head armour is a primarily to protect the face from misdirected thrusts. The top of the head is covered by a thick but totally non-absorbent piece of cotton... so...

Head strikes: a good strike will still leave you seeing stars, and a bad strike can and has ko'ed and even in at least one case killed.

Body armour: the dou is a solid piece of bamboo or fibreglass... so...

Body strikes: The sound the shinai makes on contact sometimes determines if the shot is valid or not. You need very good contact. The other main determiner is the follow through 'cut' after contact has been made. This is when you'd slice through the body.

Throat armour: this consists of one piece of cotton, as the head...

Throat thrusts: have to be very well timed and directed. If you miss the target (that very piece of cloth) you will not be allowed the strike. At the same time you really want to protect that area because splinters from the shinai (though they should have been checked before the competition) can really put the mockers on your singing career.

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by apoweyn
mat,

i think that was precisely what was missing from my stickfighting back then. yeah, the sort of 'baseline' for the stickfight was going to be this chaotic exchange of rattan. but then there should probably be a moment when you pull out the slick piece of footwork or something and do something decisive.


stuart b.

The Ni-ten guys are really some pieces of work against the standard guys.

Their footwork has to be immaculate and very very fast to negate the range disadvantage, and to provide a stable base for the strong strike.

Of course because their defences are weaker and tend to be more deflective to make up for it, and we have fewer techniques which tend to be straighter, stronger and faster at the ideal range, we often give them a pasting anyway!!! :D

But there is that moment when you realise you have over stepped without a definite enough strike, or that their seemingly weak slightly angled defence has just drawn you into their web... and then you realise they've hit you with a couple of beauts, and could hit you with more if they hadn't already won...!


When they're fighting each other, they seem more cautious than your guys, but when they get going it can turn into a frenzy...! I do think that as you get more experienced the footwork becomes so much more important: you get more of those moments (and I mean moments!) of stand-off and then the finish.

[Mr Punch]

Bugger. Just realised I've typed two very long replies, and the server just lost an addendum....

Oso: What kind of weapons are you using? Wondering because with bo, and the other longer weapons, I found that, as Ap said, my grappling technique got crisper, as often we would let the opponent have the stick (or even throw it at them!), so we could control them more carefully without damaging them.

Maybe if they'd have had some kind of even half effective armour, we could have concentrated more on the stick and less on the grappling...?

[yenhoi]

I wore a cup, elbow wrap, gloves, headgear, normal clothing, a mouthpiece, and 2 sticks!

First time going full speed. Chaotic is definitly the word.

Technique wise, I pulled off several roof blocks, insides deflection, and several passes, the rest of the time I was getting wailed on by my much more experienced partner.

I dont know how often the Dog Brothers have a public event during the year. I know the gathering this year is in june, and that they are attempting to get a huge ass stick melee going on at Burning men, both of which Id like to be at and maybe participate.

I need at least a week to heal, I have massive bruises.

:eek:

[Oso]

Mat, just to clarify my quick post this morning: I was referring
strictly to short stick fighting and not the kendo. I don't know
anything about kendo so can't offer comments on it.

I've done stick fighting with rattan and ash sticks.

Stick(s) vs. Staff: I'll take sticks most of the time as a preference
but it's really the footwork that beats the staff allowing you
inside the end of the staff. Of course, there are people that make
good use of the middle of the staff but I can still usually tie the
staff up with one stick and strike with the other.

Stick vs. Stick: is definitely chaotic at times but doesn't have to be.

My preferred method of sparring w/ or w/o weapons is to plan
and hour or two of time for it and start slow, light and controlled.
Bump the intensity up every 10-15 minutes all the while trying to
stay focused on technique and not just bashing at each other.
This works pretty well for me and I will end up in the 3/4 contact
range and still working technique better then if I had just decided
to start at a high level of speed contact.

Protective equipment: for me this is a cost issue. I'm broke most
of the time:) A cup is always a requirement so that goes w/o
saying. Eyes are tough to replace, so the goggles. I've used
various gloves to different affects and there are a lot of things
I'd like to try. What catches my eye the most now is the mountain
bike armor that is an offshoot of motocross armor. I've also just
recently seen a goalie mask for lacrosse which is one piece
instead of having a hinged face grille which is looking pretty
good as I think it will fit over a standard dipped foam helmet.


more later, I actually have to go work a little bit

[Taomonkey]

Personally I dont understand the Dog Bro's, Every aspect of our training is full contact. When I strike towards your head, if you miss your block you get hit. Yes we do pull the strike at the last second (hopefully) if you miss your technique, but the strike does get through. The few times I made full contact with my training partner, man what a mess. This one time, we were camping out in the mountains and had been training traditional methods since 4 am, about 5 hours by this point. The guy I was banging with, changed his attack in mid swing to medio range, which forced me to change my counter. well ..my medio was better than his medio and I made what I felt was light contact to his upper lip. His lip didnt see it as light, and my stick sliced him like a laser. Luckily for him we had the proper training and herbs for such an accident. So we patched him up, (normal people would have gotten stitches) and trained on. A few months later he went to see his dentist for hsi check up, and the Dr discovered that my strike had blown the enamel off the back of his teeth. Every other time I have made full contact, it was a very bad thing, often blood and carnage, and always internal injuries. From watching what DB footage I have seen, it looks more like wild beating with little technique, and little power. No Offence just my two cents.
Arnis is a game of trust in training. You trust me to deliver a hard fast accurate strike towards you, and I trust you to not let me hit you.

[apoweyn]

i don't understand. how is 'every aspect' of your training full contact when you say that you pull the hit?

those two things are mutually exclusive.


stuart b.

[red5angel]

I think I am as confused as Ap is on this, how do you do "full contact" if you pull the strikes?

[yenhoi]

Taomonkey: rofl :rolleyes:

[red5angel]

"So we patched him up, (normal people would have gotten stitches) and trained on"


so you have been training with the Terminator? ;)

[yenhoi]

internal injurys too.. :eek:

[Kinjit]

... You could go to the Philippines and fight - no gear, just a stick. Apparently there is less grappling in these fights as the participants cannot afford a headshot of any kind, close in punyos do their work. No thanks, though :)

[Oso]

fwiw

one of the little stories I was told in my arnis training (Presas)
was that the tendency to recoil the stick to the side of the
head as a neutral position was so they could feel the stick
with there head/neck so they knew the stick was still in their
hand. since the hands took such a beating and were often
numb.

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by Taomonkey
Personally I dont understand the Dog Bro's, Every aspect of our training is full contact. When I strike towards your head, if you miss your block you get hit. Yes we do pull the strike at the last second (hopefully) if you miss your technique, but the strike does get through. The few times I made full contact with my training partner, man what a mess.
Arnis is a game of trust in training. You trust me to deliver a hard fast accurate strike towards you, and I trust you to not let me hit you.

Pulling your strikes teaches you to pull your strikes. Real stick-fighting, even without equipment, is more a game of power than finesse, although technique is definitely present. Most guys with a highly developed technical game, but lacking power, get smoked when fighting against a stick fighter who has developed a more realistic power game.

[Taomonkey]

Have been to PI and trained and spared every day on the beach on Negros. Dam tough and a little scary, the Philippino's have a how should I say a nack to thier art, its almost in thier nature. Lots of fun but also we went through a lot of jow.
As to your question about full force but pulling it, dont think the insurance company or Jhonny Law would look too fondly at a few cracked skulls and concussions. Every strike in every drill is fed at full speed and stregnth. Pulling occurs only when your partner makes a mistake and misses, I cannot in good conscious hit someone in the head full contact, did it once and off to the ER we went, it was way beyond your typical pop knot. Takes finess and a level of controll. Most of the time your angle will protect you from the brunt of the force, in that case we let it continue to fly, but if they are going to take the tip of the stick, you bet I pull it.
Power comes not from pure stregnth but from proper technique and body mechanics. We train to the perfection of body and attack angles.
Personally I laugh a little at that story as well, dam near killed the guy, and he had to go for weeks with a big brown poltice of herbs and steri strips on his lip. Probally should have had some stitches but when your miles and miles from the nearest hospital you do what you can.
Havent ever been to a DB gathering, but I have trained with a few who have, not dissing thier art, but if I felt they were recieving better training than myself, I would have switched styles.
Oso
ture point, before the advent of Modern Arnis by Remey and his Brothers, many arnisadors in PI felt it was an insult to the stick to bang them together in training, contact was always to the hand or the body (arms etc.) But its hard to get many people to pay you for a beating, and they wanted to develop a safer training method that could be taught in schools and universities. That practice does provide tactile feedback, but it also sets a beginning point for the proper angle, not a whole lot of time to do it in some techniques and in sparring. But we all get better over time.

Just a point about power, a certain GM of Kun Tao once told his students for years not to worry about American FMArtist, they dont hit very hard, then he met my teacher. Now he tells them to watch out for these guys..they'll hit you so hard you'll put your hand back in your pocket.

Peace Out
Guro K
Chief Instructor for Oklahoma
IPMAF

[yenhoi]

:confused:

[Watchman]

KF:


Pulling your strikes teaches you to pull your strikes. Real stick-fighting, even without equipment, is more a game of power than finesse, although technique is definitely present. Most guys with a highly developed technical game, but lacking power, get smoked when fighting against a stick fighter who has developed a more realistic power game.

That's a good perspective. Thanks.

Can you explain a little what you mean by "realistic power game" and how you specifically train it?

[Knifefighter]

Many people who train sticks believe that "watik" or "puno" type hits to the head, fingers, elbows and hands will be enough to disable someone in the heat of battle, and, sometimes this is true. However, with or without protection, more often than not the guy with a strong power game usually overwhelms the guy with finesse and not as much power.

When I first started doing the gatherings, I was much more in the finesse camp and I was a very technical, finesse-oriented fighter. That was OK as far as it went, but I found that the power guys were overwhelming my technical approach. One great thing about working with the Dog Bros approach is that I have been able to develop enough power to knock someone out even when they are wearing head protection.

What is actually good technique in working an overpowering offense sometimes looks like "just swinging wildly" to the uninitiated.

As far as how you develop "realistic" power, that’s kind of one of my trade secrets. Interestingly enough, some of the methods of power development in stick fighting actually go against some of the rules of developing a good power game in empty-handed striking.

[Watchman]

As far as how you develop "realistic" power, that’s kind of one of my trade secrets.

Fair enough. I had to try.


some of the methods of power development in stick fighting actually go against some of the rules of developing a good power game in empty-handed striking.

That is something I'm discovering now - to the point where I'm really starting to understand the different mechanics required.

I like the point you make about thinking certain "defanging" tactics will stop a guy everytime - but it isn't necessarily true. I know there had been an unspoken assumption in my own mind for quite a while when I started learning hand weapons that if you just whack a guy with a stick, or cut him with a blade using intercepting movements he'll just quit. But, like you said, that won't put a guy away who has overwhelming power.

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by Taomonkey
Have been to PI and trained and spared every day on the beach on Negros. Dam tough and a little scary,

Did anyone else do a doubletake on reading this sentence? :eek: :D

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by Watchman


That is something I'm discovering now - to the point where I'm really starting to understand the different mechanics required.


You're definitely on the right track. Here's something for you if you haven't discovered it yet. You need to be able to MISS with full power and have an instantaneous follow up attack. My favorite is "one side of the X."

[Watchman]

Thanks, KF.

That's something that has been pointed out to me before, but I've yet to really train it. I've got some work to do.

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by Knifefighter


Pulling your strikes teaches you to pull your strikes.

Disagree. I pull strikes a lot in practice and in sparring. When I've had to use them outside, I haven't pulled them. That would be stupid!

As long as you get the time in on heavy bags, dummies, older brothers... that kind of thing... you should be ok.

[apoweyn]

taomonkey,


As to your question about full force but pulling it, dont think the insurance company or Jhonny Law would look too fondly at a few cracked skulls and concussions.

hence the sparring gear. it makes possible the use of more power and follow through.


Every strike in every drill is fed at full speed and stregnth. Pulling occurs only when your partner makes a mistake and misses, I cannot in good conscious hit someone in the head full contact, did it once and off to the ER we went, it was way beyond your typical pop knot. Takes finess and a level of controll. Most of the time your angle will protect you from the brunt of the force, in that case we let it continue to fly, but if they are going to take the tip of the stick, you bet I pull it.

all basic precepts of training in FMA (and virtually any other weapons art, i'd think). of course it takes a level of control. and nobody's suggesting that you shouldn't have that. but your original assertion was that what the dog brothers do is the same as what you do. and it most certainly is not.


Power comes not from pure stregnth but from proper technique and body mechanics. We train to the perfection of body and attack angles.

within the context of this discussion, the method of power generation isn't the issue. follow through is. the dog brothers hit each other without pulling it. how they generated their power doesn't matter. what matters is that they practice bringing it to bear on one another without pulling it.


Personally I laugh a little at that story as well, dam near killed the guy, and he had to go for weeks with a big brown poltice of herbs and steri strips on his lip. Probally should have had some stitches but when your miles and miles from the nearest hospital you do what you can.

i don't really laugh as much as roll my eyes at this story. and if any partner of mine ever does this to me, i would hope he'd have the good sense to spend his time afterward getting me to a hospital rather than gathering and preparing poltices.


Havent ever been to a DB gathering, but I have trained with a few who have, not dissing thier art, but if I felt they were recieving better training than myself, I would have switched styles.

your call to make. but personally, i see nothing particularly unique about the approach you've described. we've all done sembrada or abecedario drills and sparring that, had we screwed up, would've resulted in injury. personally, i also sparred full contact. with a certain amount of safety equipment.


before the advent of Modern Arnis by Remey and his Brothers, many arnisadors in PI felt it was an insult to the stick to bang them together in training, contact was always to the hand or the body (arms etc.) But its hard to get many people to pay you for a beating, and they wanted to develop a safer training method that could be taught in schools and universities. That practice does provide tactile feedback, but it also sets a beginning point for the proper angle, not a whole lot of time to do it in some techniques and in sparring. But we all get better over time.

you're suggesting that the practice of sinawali began with remy presas then? or did they, prior to modern arnis, practice sinawali by rhythmically beating each other on the hands, back and forth?


Just a point about power, a certain GM of Kun Tao once told his students for years not to worry about American FMArtist, they dont hit very hard, then he met my teacher. Now he tells them to watch out for these guys..they'll hit you so hard you'll put your hand back in your pocket.

as salesmanship goes, this is kinda weak.

here's the thing, taomonkey: i can accept that you'd look at sparring full contact and think it was a bad training approach. i could accept you looking at the dog brothers and thinking that wasn't a wise idea. (i would disagree, but i could accept it.) but you've stated that there's nothing that the dog brothers do that you haven't. and then you describe a training regimen that's completely different from what they do. and that makes no sense.


stuart b.

[ewallace]

Rock on! A FMA lineage war in the making. Continue on please. :)

[yenhoi]

Lol. Standard ap argument 1C.

and a not-so-standard trollmonkey!

!!

:eek:

[Oso]

you're suggesting that the practice of sinawali began with remy presas then? or did they, prior to modern arnis, practice sinawali by rhythmically beating each other on the hands, back and forth?


good question Ap, I know you're responding to TM but I think
he was sort of responding to my comment about the recoil
to the neck thing.

I personally have never thought about that fact. But I think that
I heard that bit straight from Presas' mouth at a seminar.

BUT

Sinewali drills couldn't have started with Presas. So is the whole
mystical thing about the sticks just a recent addition to arnis?
Or did they just bang the cr ap out of each other?

I have not spent any time on fma history just pretty much taking
for granted what I was told. My sifu had a pretty tight
relationship with Presas for 6 or 7 years and I've felt Presas'
strikes and controls personally. not fun, well sorta fun but in
that sick way we all enjoy.

[apoweyn]

Oso,

In my school, the sticks were afforded a certain amount of 'respect.' You didn't throw them or drop them or kick them across the floor. But hitting them against one another? To my knowledge, that's been a long-time practice.

The practice of striking stick on stick, as far as I know, had nothing to do with the fading of some mystical sense of sticks. And everything to do with the need to develop a sense of flow in the stickwork without smashing your partner's knuckles into an unrecognizable mess. In reality, that would be precisely the objective. But in practice, you'd have to pull back (or pummel your friend and then patch him up with clods of dirt and peat moss). By hitting the sticks instead, you can follow through with the flow of it and keep going.

All of which I expect you already knew. Sorry for lecturing. :)

Anyway, no disrespect intended to Remy Presas. But there are many other masters to be honoured as well. And I expect that it would come as news to them that sinawali and other stick-bashing practices were invented by Tuhon Presas. Floro Villabrille, Ciriaco Canete, Leo Giron, and Angel Cabales, to name a few.


Stuart B.

[apoweyn]

p.s. I'm not much of a historian these days, I warn you. So for the straight skinny, I'd suggest checking out Mark V. Wiley's books on the filipino martial arts.

[shinbushi]

Originally posted by Mat
I think kendo armour helps to enhance the technique. Here's why:

Admittedly kendo was developed as a competition art, but the basics of kenjutsu are still trained in kata, and the continuation of most winning strikes are clearly delivering the cut in a fashion that would cut through the target if using live blades.


The problem is that they hit with the shinai, they don't do a cutting motion. I like Chambara better as the swords are soft, they bend when you get a cutting motion so you don't get a point unless it bends. In Japan a few years back they took a bunch of high level kendoka (Who had not trained in iaido or kenjutsu) and had them do tameshigiri (practice cutting agaist rolled, soaked straw mats, and most of them could not cut. I still spar with shinai though but try to do cutting motions rather than wack.

[Kinjit]

Shinai doesnt feel anything like a real sword to me... I think you could make a much better simulation of a Katana with the ARMA- methods (see www.thearma.org) for sparring tools.

[Oso]

Ap,
oh, I didn't see any dis of Presas.

Unfortunately I saw him fall into the $$ trap like so many other
martial artists with great skill.

but Sifus/Tuhons et al are people too.

and I always take anything that uses a mystical/spiritual slant
with a huge grain of salt.

I haven't actively trained arnis since 97 as I'm trying to get the
nuances of my kf stick. but when I spar it comes out since I
did spend something like 7 years training it.

abinico's just come in so handy:)

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by shinbushi

The problem is that they hit with the shinai, they don't do a cutting motion. I like Chambara better as the swords are soft, they bend when you get a cutting motion so you don't get a point unless it bends. In Japan a few years back they took a bunch of high level kendoka (Who had not trained in iaido or kenjutsu) and had them do tameshigiri (practice cutting agaist rolled, soaked straw mats, and most of them could not cut. I still spar with shinai though but try to do cutting motions rather than wack.

Agreed, it's a hit not a cut. That's why I used the word strike. But when you do a winning cut to the men you are supposed to follow through with the arms at 90 degs to the ground (or thereabouts) and 'push' through with the kissaki, which is tantamount to the usual cutting through motion of a head strike in the kenjutsu I've been taught. That's why I said the follow through, not the strike is important.

Similarly, when a winning cut is performed to the do (much harder to score) you have to 'roll'/'slice' the kissaki and then further down the 'blade' around the armour.

I wasn't saying that the strike was a cut, I was saying they had similar dynamics! And the thread is about full contact stick fighting, not cutting people into bite-size chunks!!!

I'm surprised about the tameshigiri result, though I know I shouldn't be. A lot of high-schoolers are taught kendo with no knowledge of the relationship to the sword, and I suppose it continues from there.

My sensei has always given me his live blades to play with anyway.

Kinjit; agreed, they feel nothing like each other other than in weight.

Should try some chambara, my old WC dojo (sorry kwoon!) was shared with a chambara gym (sorry dojo?!)... looked interesting.

[apoweyn]

oso,


abinico's just come in so handy

ain't that the truth. :)

i'm a big fan of the backhand witik, myself.


stuart b.

[yenhoi]

backhand redondo

yummy

:eek:

[apoweyn]

another good one, yeah. the idea of landing that on the back of someone's hand makes me cringe.

[red5angel]

you *******s and your secret "in the know" talk!!! What the hell are you talking about?!?!?

[apoweyn]

abaniko: lit. "fan" flicking motion where you twist the wrist all the way around, bringing the point of your stick to bear first on one side of the target and then all the way around to the other side.

witik: flicking motion, as opposed to a slashing or thrusting motion. results in a hit with the point of your stick. advantage is that it can circumvent defenses that way, where a slash might be blocked.

redondo: circular motion of the stick. a backhand redondo (if memory serves) would circle the point of the stick on the inside of the body, coming to rest in a closed or 'serrada' position.


does that help? if not, consider it payback for all that talk about pak sao and wotnot.

:)

[red5angel]

hey! your mom didn't seem to mind the pak sao talk... ;)

[yenhoi]

pak sau and what not lol.

red5 you need some Abecedario drills!

:D

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by red5angel
hey! your mom didn't seem to mind the pak sao talk... ;)

that's true. but now she keeps asking me whatever happened to that nice young lady, red5.

:)

[Oso]

I liked arnis a lot and feel that Presas did have something going
with the 'modern' arnis. Having no other FMA experience I can't
compare training routines so other tuhons may have the same
scheme but...

Everything was numbered based on the 12 basics strikes.
You started by learning those shadow boxing like and throwing
them with recoil, follow-through and 'control'. control meaning
that you stuck to the target after the strike.

then you started learning the different methods of deflecting vs
those twelve strikes, then disarms against the 12 strikes.

this while learning single and double sinewali patterns, striking
styles, 6 count drill, 10 count drill, decadena, redondo

also, Presas' Modern Arnis had forms both empty hand and
weapon which I'm sure he created. I thought they were good
forms and illustrated the drills and patterns.

whew, out of sight out of mind, I did know the first 4 of each and
can't really recall any of them except bits and pieces.


oh, yeah, I looked at some more mtb armor today and I really
think it might be the thing. Fully articulated elbow and knee
pads w/ abs plastic cups for the elbow/knee and plastic over
the foam padding. heres a link to some pics I just looked for
on google

http://www.mojowheels.com/dhprotect.html

Pricey for sure but you would look good.

I bet chicks would dig it too.