Would you...?

[MightyB]

I'm curious,

If you were going off to war, or training people who we're going off to war, would you modify how you train people or the techniques that you teach?

If so, how? If not, why?

Just curious...

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I'd emphasize quick kills.

I'd focus on Fitness, observation, instant assessment, and decisive action. There would be no room for second guessing or hesitation.

I'd take a "skills based" rather than a "techniques" based approach emphasizing getting the attacker off balance and off of their feet, and quickly killing them. The primary focus being ensuring survival for the next encounter. Quickly destroying their limbs would be the key.

I would have groundfighting, mainly the mount and defending against the mount, but I would want to minimize time on the ground, again, emphasizing quick kills. So, I'd primarely teach stand-up, knee-on-belly, and mount attacks and kills.

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What about you guys?

[MightyB]

If you notice, I'd be mostly stand up. And, when I say "quick kills", I mean killing, or incapacitating through destroying major joints or limbs.

[red5angel]

mightyB, I would mostly use my gun. Also my grenades for multiple attackers. Just in case however I would bring 500,000 of my closest freinds and tell them to bring their guns as well. Oh yeah an dtheir grenades...

[MightyB]

I'm going to start discussing my analysis of the "Skills Based Approach for Strikers".
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You have either attack, or counter-attack.

There are only two primary zones in attacking: Outside or inside the opponent's lead.

You have two primary striking attacks: The lead limb, or the rear limb.

These can be broken down into: Direct, indirect, or drawing. You can further subdivide attack into: closing for bridge attacks, overwhelming attacks, direct, or subtle attacks.

You can also attack by rushing, clinching, throwing, or setting up the throw through combinations. I guess you could say that there's direct, and indirect throwing methods.

Counter attacking is more expressive than defense, because even in defense, you should be aggressively controlling the opponent. I like to say active defense.

There are two primary defensive zones: Outside or inside the opponent's lead.

You have four basic defensive strategies: Block, pluck/catch, redirect, or evade.

You can only apply those four in four ways on the attack which are: inside, outside, over, or under.

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This is what I've come up with so far for a "skills based approach" to striking.

[Merryprankster]

I would also teach them to stay wired to the comms system for battlespace awareness. And how to radio for air support.

[red5angel]

agreed with merrypranskter, also did I mention tanks? I would teach them how to drive tanks and fly bombers as well.

[MightyB]

that the best conventional attack is a 4,000lb smart bomb.

Sometimes martial arts are more for physical and mental toughness, but, in a trench warfare, or extreme CQB situation, sometimes you will have to know good ol' hand to hand.

What I'm asking is how would you teach it? And yes, bayanet skills would be stressed, but, they would be easy to teach using a zone based, skills based approach.

[dnc101]

MB, I wouldn't teach traditional arts, or MMA, or any thing that required a lot of time to learn the necessary skills. If they are soon headed into combat, they need their skills now. There are several systems out there designed for this purpose. Choose a good one and teach that. You can enrol the survivors in a MA class when they come back.

[red5angel]

What I would like to see done MightyB is for the US military to adapt a 'style' of martial arts, like the Israelis have done with Krav Maga, and then recquire mandatory classes when possible as frequently as maybe once a week. At the very least like anything else in the military you should have to pass test once or twice a year showing that you know your stuff and are competent at it.

[MightyB]

Yeah but, (yabbits live in the woods)

How would you teach it? Using what you know, using your style, how would you teach combative martial arts?

[MightyB]

This is how the Marines are doing it (http://ejmas.com/jnc/jncframe.htm) right now.

[Read the Marines Lead the Way article.]

This is how the Army is doing it (http://ejmas.com/jnc/jncframe.htm).

[Read the New Army Combatives Manual.]

[Both links are on the page I linked the "ITs" to]

How would you? Do you like these approaches?

[dnc101]

It's great that they are teaching these systems in times of peace. But hopefully they are teaching basic hand to hand fighting and survival skills first.

The best way to go would be an abbreviated, but effective, system that teaches basic fighting skills. Choose a system that fits well with your advanced system, and teach the short system as the first phase of the overall martial skills training.

[red5angel]

MightyB, I think the marines are sort of heading in the right direction. Starting to take CQB more seriously anyway. It used to be a real joke.
As for how I would teach it? Not sure exaclty how to answer that. Mainly I think I would work with some basic striking techniques, some basic grappling techniques, and th euse of your gun and a knife.
Possibly as time went on you could get into more advanced stuff like adapting things in your area for self defense etc. but you have to keep in mind that when you are in a wartime situation, your mind is already working that way anyway. You may not have the phat skewz you need but you get into killing mode and just about anything put into your hand can and will be used.

[Oso]

mightyb don't take this too personally but it's a silly question.

Unless a ma has military training they should not even begin
to think that they have a clue about what a battlefield fight
might be like. They don't have the proper frame of reference
so how could they modify anything they knew?

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by red5angel
mightyB, I would mostly use my gun. Also my grenades for multiple attackers. Just in case however I would bring 500,000 of my closest freinds and tell them to bring their guns as well. Oh yeah an dtheir grenades...

LMAO!

[yenhoi]

I dunno about the military stuff MightyB, but:

I would break down training into something like a pyramid, just for the trainees sake: attributes > skills > technique > tactics

attributes are what make up the trainee, speed, endurance, stamina, mental ability, drive, attitude, strength, mobility, etc.

skills based on the several ranges of combat. Some of them would be: closing the gap, punching the opponent, kicking the opponent, throwing the opponent, etc.

techniques based on tools (arms, legs, elbows, knees, shoulders, etc) and how they relate to range and tactics.

tactics are general fight 'game plan' and system priciples like forward going force, elbow power, structure, etc.

Then I would have some sort of progression structure, like, Level 1 through Level 5. At each level I would use a similar skill based teaching method, but I would only teach and refine 3-5 core "skills" per level, withen my attribute > skills > technique > tactics structure.


Training specifics..................

:eek:

[No_Know]

You seemed like merely a curious person to me.~

"How would you teach it? Using what you know, using your style, how would you teach combative martial arts?"


You mentioned ground fighting. I prefer broaderness than guard type standard now-a-days stuff of so called Brazilian Juijitsu (at least one site suggested that the Gracies came from Scottland; and the Japanese gentleman theoretically is a practiotioner not of Jui-jitsu but of Judo; a marketing name more than honestly descriptive). Attacking ability from the ground.
-moving around on all fours
-moving along the ground (different terrains) while striking (TBDetermined later)
-evasion on the ground to escape, to attack, to trap
-multiple person routines/strategies for reducing enemy numbers (team efforts, using enemy as weapon)

-determining Fakeouts

-hitting the opponent with the environment.

-leverage and body weapons and applications with various effects.

-Crippling that can can be undone usually only with assistance

Attacks increase speed with proximity.

Reacting with peripheral vision.

Untrain Knee jerk responses...