On plyometrics and heart rate (seperate questions)

[StarBoy]

Plyometrics:

I've been doing my research and maybe what I've been reading is a little biased, but plyometrics seems extremely dangerous to me. I'm reading not only about various types of injury due to it's high impact nature, but even complications that could occur if you exceed your target heart rate.

I'd like to implement plyometrics into my training program, but not if it would result in permanently damaging myself. Are these sources accurate? If not, can someone point me in the right direction.

Heart Rate:

I'm not even sure that I know how to calculate my target heart rate. I've seen target heart rate calculators on the net. They all require a resting heart rate, but for some reason, when I measure my resting heart rate [as in having done light or no activity all day (like on rest days)] it seems to vary from 60-120bpm so I either must be measuring it extremely wrong or have an extremely erratic heartbeat. Regardless, it's rather a pain to measure my heart rate during cardio to determine if I'm in the proper range. I was thinking of getting one of those watches that measures your pulse for you or something like that and I'm looking for suggestions for reasonably priced equipment.

And as for the 60-120bpm...I have to be measuring it wrong, right? :confused:

[yenhoi]

How old are you? Why are you worrying about heart rate?

Unless you have heart problems or are older (and at much higher risk of having heart problems...) plyometrics are very safe as long as you arent fatigued, properly warmup, and properly cool down.

:eek:

[harry_the_monk]

Plyometric training: It does have downfalls, but also benefits. You must decide if the benefits are what you want. As yenhoi has said they can be safe to do, but you must make sure that your body is in good alignment while doing the exercises. Pretty much all evidence is against plyometric training until you can do a reasonble amount of repetition without making it plyometric.(i.e you are able to do 30 pushups before you attempt to do plyometric pushups.). Start gradually and build up to it, as with all training. That is the safest way to train, not neccesarily the way to get the quickest results, but nevertheless safe.
Heart Rate: This is one way to do it: You can work out a Maximum Heart Rate by doing 220 minus your age.(220-25=195) this figure is estimated at about more or less than 12 bpm. You then work out your training zone MHR=195 x 60% = 117( this is quite a low intensity type work out). Depending on your fitness, you may want to work out at 70% to +90% of this figure. Do not however put much emphasis on heart rate training as your actual heart rate can however change according to your moods, time of day etc., You would be much better working out due to how you feel. (If you are busting a gut that is normally hard enough!!!)

There is so much to go into on both these topics, but I have tried to keep it A.Short.AP
Maybe the others would also like to comment?

[StarBoy]

I'm only 24, I know I'm too young to be worrying about heart problems. I did have some minor problems when I was younger (like early teens), but my doctor said I was good to go. I also don't think that heart problems run in my family, and any heart problems in my family is because nobody runs in my family (cardio-joke :D ).

Seriously though, my concern centers around doing my cardio at the proper heart rate ranges. That's why I was thinking of getting one of the monitors, to make it easier to gauge myself.


That is the safest way to train, not neccesarily the way to get the quickest results, but nevertheless safe.

And how safe is safe? If I can gain the benefits, with no permanent and minor to no temporary downfalls, then I'm all for it. But if doing plyometrics is going to give me trouble walking when I'm 50 or so, then I don't see the point. Maybe if I was planning to go to the UFC, it would be worth the sacrifice later in life, but I just want to be a better martial artist all-around, now and when I'm 50 or so.

I've been doing research, and some sources said that you should be able to bench (possibly multiple reps) 180-200% of your body weight before trying plyometrics. Frankly, I find a 300 lb. bench to be rather insane, especially considering I'm not trying to bulk up (too much).

[Suntzu]

I sometimes train with a HR monitor… resting HR is normally your HR first thing in the morning… I just go by HR when I first put the watch on… 60 sounds good… 120… you should be doing a light workout at 120… that’s the formula I use that harry posted… on light days I train around 120-140… hard days… 165-180+...


I incorporate plyos in my workouts… haven't hurt myself as yet(knock on wood)… but injurys happen… you'll never know if plyos are a direct cause… they are not something I would do everyday… to me the rewards outweigh the risks… try them… see how u feel... u dont feel good about them... STOP... no big deal...

and by the time 50 gets around… the results of plyos will be the least of worries…

[StarBoy]

and by the time 50 gets around… the results of plyos will be the least of worries…

That wasn't very reassuring...:p

[Suntzu]

HR training has been one of most benficial add-ons to my training…knowing my target HRs and how long to train them has helped a lot and after learning on the treadmill… I can finally get off that thing and hit my target rates while doing other exercises (BWEs, KB, etc)... but for those max effort days... nothing beats sprint intervals...

[StarBoy]

knowing my target HRs and how long to train them

and how did you learn this. More specifically, how did you learn how long to train at your target HR?

[Suntzu]

using the formula that Harry posted… and running on a treadmill for the target HR range for about 30 minutes(i just picked 30 out of the blue, really)… after a few weeks steped it up to 45 minutes… on sprint days I would use a higher target and knock out a few sprints of various intensities for different lenghts of time...

[yenhoi]

Starboy, you worry too much.

plyometrics wont hurt you in the long run, YOU will hurt yourself in the long run if you do plyometrics incorrectly.

I've been doing research, and some sources said that you should be able to bench (possibly multiple reps) 180-200% of your body weight before trying plyometrics. Frankly, I find a 300 lb. bench to be rather insane, especially considering I'm not trying to bulk up (too much).

Silly talk! If your going to do weighted plyometrics you can use any weight you can comfortably handle normally - just make sure you are not fatigued, warm up, do the excersize correctly, and cool down when your done. If your just going to do bodyweight plyometrics, then you can just use your bodyweight! Same rules, dont you **** up, or you will get ****ed up, its not the fault of the plyometrics.

As far as general fitness... if you can do 30 good form pushups and jump rope for 3 minutes without being overly worked, then you can do plyometrics.

:eek:

[StarBoy]

Starboy, you worry too much.

Is it that obvious? :D


plyometrics wont hurt you in the long run, YOU will hurt yourself in the long run if you do plyometrics incorrectly.

See, I heard it differently. I heard that almost all plyometrics was high impact and therefore will wear down your joints and such over time. I didn't seem right though so I figured I'd run it by the folks here. I mean, I don't doubt doing it incorrectly would result in injury, but there has to be a safe way of doing it else it wouldn't be so popular...

Sorry if I'm annoying the folks here, but I used to be a "jock" so most of my resources are from people in that area. However, I frequently see athletes sports careers (or hobbies) being cut short because of bad advice from their coaches. In most sports I've seen/participated in, the coaches just burn out the athletes. If they can get a good few seasons out of them, then that's good enough. There will always be fresh, new athletes to take their place. My cousin (in high school) had this problem. Because of his football coach he had to have one minor and one major surgery on his shoulder. Can you believe the coach had him doing lats behind the back? And this was after he found out he needed surgery because of his injuries.

The martial arts has been the only athletic activity (I won't belittle it by calling it a sport :) ) where people who train, train smart. So of course, anything I hear elsewhere I'll be running by the folks here along with my friends that study martial arts.

[Mr. Bao]

Starboy:

Greetings and good health. I will share with you some of my insight as a martial artist and well as a personal trainer. I hope my information will clear some misunderstandings.

"I've been doing my research and maybe what I've been reading is a little biased, but plyometrics seems extremely dangerous to me. I'm reading not only about various types of injury due to it's high impact nature, but even complications that could occur if you exceed your target heart rate."

First there is always risks involved in anything physical, but asumming you are in good standing health and training intelligently the chances of personal damages is less than an ignorant fool or weekend warrior. I have seen trainers teach plyometrics to their clients who aren't ready and have seriously injuried them. But these trainers were retards. I will share with you how to avoid this and I hope you listen.

"I'd like to implement plyometrics into my training program, but not if it would result in permanently damaging myself. Are these sources accurate? If not, can someone point me in the right direction."

Plyometric is not so danergous if done properly in its right order.
There is a logical progression and I wouldn't go straight into plyometic first without preparing myself. This includes anything new in our health and fitness goals.

Building your tendon strength wont bulk you up. Trust me, if you can bulk up by doing pushing, pulling, squating weight that is 120-200% of your own body weight in low volumes and reps, then you are a gifted freak for iron. Example two sets of 5 reps resting 5 mins of bench press, weighted chins, and squats are reasonable ways to increase your max strength without the bulk. Developing max strength insure that you have the neccesary tendon strength and power for plyometric. Plyometrics will teach you how to make your great force move quickly! Make sure you learn the proper bench, squat, and chin technique and have an expert show you these movements correctly. I would say this is important and safe. I would recommend getting Pavel's book "Power to the People: for devleloping Max strength. His book is user friendly and simple to follow.

Doing max Training will prevent the wear and tear fears you may have about plyometrics. Second, you should make sure you have good flexibility which can be trained much without interfering with your strength training regardless of method. Then you should train your cardiovascular system based on your Target heart zone. Once these are done properly, plyometric training can be effective and quite safe. I must mentioned that there are even guidelines while doing plymetrics as well to insure optimal results with less personal risks. Once you do the preconditioning phases of plyometrics then we can speak about what plometrics is all about. Fair enough?

"Heart Rate:
I'm not even sure that I know how to calculate my target heart rate. I've seen target heart rate calculators on the net. They all require a resting heart rate, but for some reason, when I measure my resting heart rate [as in having done light or no activity all day (like on rest days)] it seems to vary from 60-120bpm so I either must be measuring it extremely wrong or have an extremely erratic heartbeat. Regardless, it's rather a pain to measure my heart rate during cardio to determine if I'm in the proper range. I was thinking of getting one of those watches that measures your pulse for you or something like that and I'm looking for suggestions for reasonably priced equipment."

Knowing your target heart zones is like knowing much weight or load you are going to lift. Only an ignorant fool would not care about not knowing his load and this much the same in conditioning your heart. It is vitally important to know your Heart Rate during cardio training that if you are serious. I would also suggest getting "American College of Sports Medicine (ACSM's Guidlines for Exercise Testing and Prescription)" text. This is a gold book which I used professional and if you that concern about the risks, then here is your science text. It covers a whole lot the potential risks and its possible prescriptions. And yes "Polar" heart rate monitors are awesome. Get it and use It.

Your resting heart is the actual objective thing which shows if you are improving or not improving cardiovascularly. Of course if you can do more cardio output that is an objective way as well, but in terms knowing how to work your target heart rate zone this is vital. If you improving, your resting heart rate has to change. The lower the better and the more cardiovascularly fit you are. The best time to take your resting heart rate is after you wake up and it is not wise to do it during the middle the day or at night. Too many factors can effect your resting heart rates, it is more accurate after waking up.


Here is the Target heart formula. It has been advised by ASCM and NASM and other resources to exercise between 60-80% of your THRZ for 20-40 mins.

220 minus your age minus your rest heat rate (RHZ) = X

X times 60% plus your RHR = 60% of THRZ

X times 80% plus your RHR = 80% of THRZ

Of course these THRZ will change according to your new RHR and age. If you have a Polar Heart Monitor now you judge if you want a easy to hard cardio workout, stay in your own zones. I have even use this Polar watch to the my HR during kettlebell drills, BW exercises, and to measure my strength training. I hope this helps and clears up your confusion. If you have anymore questions, just asked.

[StarBoy]

That was a lot of good information, and I have a lot less confusion now. Obviously, I'm going to hold off on plyometrics for a bit longer. The HR info was broken down really easy for me. And I'm glad you recommend Polar HRMs, as they have the only HRM that I've seen that I can afford (The Polar a1), though I am tempted to get the a3 just so I also have a decent watch with an alarm.

Thanks again for all that information.

[Mr. Bao]

Star boy:

No problem. I am glad I can help you. As I see from others responds, you needed something much more clearer and simpler. Yes, dont start plyometrics yet and work on developing the other things we talked about.

Best Cheers!

[StarBoy]

By the way, you recommended Polar heart monitors. Do you own one yourself? I'm really tossed between the a1 and the a3. I know it's an investment, but I'm seriously low on cash, and I wonder how much I really need the extra features.

Thankfully, Polar has a really nice site (at least their finnish site is nice, the USA one kinda bites). And I was able to do a comparison between the models. Other than a watch/alarm/stopwatch, the a3 also comes with a bit better display and keeps track of your target zones (with an audio alert if you leave your target zone).

I suppose I could cut some corners elsewhere for a while to cover the extra $30 (bye-bye bubble tea :( ), though maybe the extra features are excessive...

[Mr. Bao]

StarBoy:

I personally have a3 model. But if your money is concern, I would suggest that you save your money until you can get the a3 model or go to e-bay and see if you can a get a better deal? If you really need it now which I do not think so, you can buy the a1 for now. a1 model aint so bad and it does its job fine. You aint far from nyc, if you ever come down to nyc, you are more than welcome to workout in at my gym and even use my kettlebells, clubbells, and other tools I used for my workouts. Best of luck with your training.

[StarBoy]

Yeah, I think I'm going to bite the bullet and get the a3.

You mentioned I wouldn't need it now though, why is that? I've been doing cardio for a while, but even if I was just starting, wouldn't the HRM be useful in designing a program for a beginner as well?

And thanks for the gym offer. I just might be taking you up on it. I may be moving to the west side of CT, and I have some family in NYC that I like to visit when I can, so gym time with another serious martial artist would be a good deal.

[Mr. Bao]

You are welcome StarBoy. Well I was just thinking about your money circumstances and I didn't want you to spend money you didn't have. I am bit frugal myself and understand the value of a dollar myself, LoL. I waste most of my money on fitness toys myself who am I kiddng? I just spent 200 dollars on clubbells and book on this equiment. LoL. I am also planning to get another pair of kettlebells soon. Hey, I am in the fitness industry, it is tax deductable? Enough of my spending habits,... I am glad you are getting A3 model, best of luck playing with a new toy. It will serve you well.

And once again, you are more than welcome to workout with me at my gym. When you reach NYC, you have a friend waiting. Then you can see for yourself if I am just all talk or fake ass personal trainer/martial artist? LoL. I am joking pls no hate posts people. By the way, I have some interesting ideas I am working but I will not disclose them here. When you see me, I will introduce to you some of my ideas. I hope you like chinese food, I know some kick ass chinese food places in Chinatown manhatten or Flushing queens.

Oh well, best of luck moving, be safe and stay strong in form and grace.

[StarBoy]

I know you were joking around, but your fitness equipment is actually probably tax deductible because of your work. You mentioned getting into personal training, are you in it at this point (and have a tax stamp)? I'm not even sure if the tax stamp is necessary. If so, the equipment counts as a business expense. My mother runs a daycare and gets tax breaks left and right for various things she buys that can be used for the daycare (toys, art supplies, even food).

You should find an accountant that specializes in small business (the people at a place like H&R Block generally don't have this kind of knowledge). I'm sure you can get a free consultation. And with what fitness equipment costs, that could be a lot of money.

[Mr. Bao]

Thanks for the infor. I do pretty well with my taxes and I make enough that I buy my toys. LoL. Starboy, I read that you think Warrior Diet is fad, so far I have benefited from this diet and it works for me. The author has been on this diet over ten years and it a pretty simple, sound diet once you read it. Keep your mind open and try it first before you call it a fad is my advice.

Best Cheers.

[StarBoy]

I just reread that post and I realized I screwed up.

I wasn't calling the Warrior Diet a fad. I was referring to the blood type diet, the all meat/no carbs diet, the eat celery until you turn green diet, all that kind of stuff. I wanted to get a good source of designing a balanced diet for an athlete.

I really don't too much about the warrior diet, though I was able to figure out it wasn't like the fad diets. It seems like a balanced system, though I did read a little about exercising while fatigued and that made me hesitant. I do intend to read more about it, but I'm also trying to expand my basic knowledge to be able to form more critical opinions.

Sorry for the confusion. :D

[Cheese Dog]

Hey Starboy; please don't think I'm jumping on your case, but in my honest opinion the blood-type diet isn't a fad. I believe it to be very logical and has worked very well for me.

[StarBoy]

Mr. Bao, where did you buy your HRM? I've been shopping around and the average price is $79.99. However, I did find one good deal. At Heart Monitors USA (http://www.heartratemonitorsusa.com/) I can get an a3 for 68.99 and free shipping and handling.

I'm not so sure about buying things (especially electronics) off the net from an "unknown" supplier. On the other hand, pretty much every retailer has a 30 day refund policy so if something goes wrong after, my only options are going to D I C K's Sporting Goods and being told "tough luck" in person, or emailing this supply store and having them email me a "tough luck".

On the bright side, this place is located in Jersey so it would only be a 4 hour roadtrip to go kick some butt if necessary. :D

What do you think?

[Mr. Bao]

I got a3 for free. It was a gift from a client and I realize then that it cost a pretty penny because it just came out in the market. I would suggest going to the bloody store and get your A3 and if anything you get your money back or kick some arse. Best of Luck, train wisely and when your punk arse gets into nyc I will waiting. LoL.

Sincerely,

[StarBoy]

I got a3 for free.

Lucky bàstard...that's all I got to say...:)