Eight Kicks of Wing Chun? I thought there are only Two?

[pseudoswitch]

I keep hearing that some schools of Wing Chun have 8 kicks but i was led to believe that there are in effect only 2, a front kick and a sidekick, with all other kicks being variations of these two. For example a cross stomp kick is just a front kick that travels in a more lateral direction as opposed to from back to front in a standard front kick.

Why do people keep insisting that a high sidekick is different from a low sidekick? I've also seen snap front kicks to the groin (kicking with the instep as opposed to the heel) and low roundhouse kicks, are these part of the traditional Wing Chun system? Possibly a part of other WC schools such as Pien San or Chi Sim? Am i right in saying that these instep kicks are not found in the Hong Kong WC?

Regards,

pseudo

[kj]

Originally posted by pseudoswitch
I keep hearing that some schools of Wing Chun have 8 kicks but i was led to believe that there are in effect only 2, a front kick and a sidekick, with all other kicks being variations of these two.

I think the answer lies in your question.

People have different thinking and learning styles. Some tend more toward the conceptual (see patterns with variation, analog thinking), some prefer enumeration (discrete or finite thinking), and some vacillate.

How such things are relayed in teaching would in general seem to speak more to the learning styles of the teacher (or their teacher in turn), than their students respectively.

Wing Chun is Wing Chun regardless how (or how aptly or ineptly) we describe it. IMHO, the trick is to not let the words get in the way of finding what it really is.

I am reminded of the adage "the best exercise is the one you will do." Similarly, I think the best descriptions for Wing Chun are the ones that help you to understand and actualize it.

So here's the interesting caveat. While this perspective allows enormous latitude for differing descriptions, Wing Chun itself remains very specific and not even remotely "anything goes." (IMHO.) So we will necessarily continue to debate till the cows come home on things like whether Wing Chun has 2 kicks or 8. ;)

A few loose thoughts, anyway. :)

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[azwingchun]

The way we look at it is in a sense, is that the front and side kick is more the technique. Where as the principles change the look of or application of the kick. Then nailing, lifting, circling, sweeping, jerking, stomping, scraping and replacing kicks are the principles.;)

Sorry, I didn't go in much detail, but this is the easiest way to describe what it is you are asking.

[yuanfen]

Classification of kicks is a teaching device. Different teachers organize the body of knowledge differently.A punch is a punch and a kick is a kick... but the path of the kick or the contact points
can result in different classifications. Flexibility and footwork and timing and experience can result ina real arsenal of wing chun kicks usung a wing chun engine.

[reneritchie]

KJ, as per usual, is correct.

Some say there's one kick, some say an infinite amount. Both are correct, though not very useful to a beginner. So, usually some easy to digest amount like 8 is given, which is enough variety to see potential but not enough to get lost in.

[teazer]

and 8 is a nice round number. There's a tendency to break things up until the number of techniques matches such numbers!

Most things, like apples, can be sliced any number of ways. Some more useful than others. People have preferences though.

[Phenix]

There are eight core methods on leg.

Not a round number, but leg can be used in eight core ways and these have to do both with medirians and different types of "kicks".

Front kick has at least two ways......

[Jim Roselando]

Hello Hendrik,


With regards to the front kick would you be talking about;

Lui Yum Toi and Chuen Sum Toi?


Greetz,

[Phenix]

Originally posted by Jim Roselando
Hello Hendrik,


With regards to the front kick would you be talking about;

Lui Yum Toi and Chuen Sum Toi?


Greetz,


Yup, and more ....

Since SLT system has to be able to change in the path of projectile....
a kick is not a kick until it track.... ....

Needs to get into the paradigm and technology to be able to implement these...... details details details....

[yuanfen]

Like the hands, a wing chun kick ought to be able to change directions and adapt to the dynamics involved- hence some classifications of kicks based on paths and contact points.

yuanfen/joy

[Jim Roselando]

Hello Hendrik,


Thanks for the info.. Its good to see that there are some common links in the older terminology that run accross lineages. If Yuen Kay San's teaching, Leung Jan's "Koo Lo" teaching and Yik Kam's teaching all refer to those names for the two frontal kicks then perhaps we can say it was (quote from Rene here)more likely than less likely that those were the orignal Wing Chun terms utilized. Of course this is only important from a historical point of view.


Gotta run!


Regards,

[Phenix]

Originally posted by yuanfen
Like the hands, a wing chun kick ought to be able to change directions and adapt to the dynamics involved- hence some classifications of kicks based on paths and contact points.

yuanfen/joy

Hi Joy,

In the mother art of Yik Kam SLT, there is something called the 8 methods under the leg....

[Phenix]

HI Jim,


There are alots of similarity.....

[Fresh]

What are the 8 different kicks?

[Matrix]

I don't know about the eight kicks, but here's a good article that will give you some insight into some variants of the WC kicks as used in the Sum Nung system.

http://www.wingchunkuen.com/archives/readings/contemporary/features/casella_kicking.html

Matrix

P.S. Thanks to Rene Ritchie and company for the article.

[yuanfen]

Hendrik- that sounds intriguing.

Fresh- Dont want to mislead. remember that the path of the energy is part of the distinctions between the kicks.
But practicing the basic front kick well loosens up things for the others- just as char kuen does for building other motions.
jing gurk, wang gurk, soo gurk, yaai sut gurk, tiu gurk,
jut gurk,taisut, chai gurk.

And- how was everyone's valentine's day?

cheers. yuanfen

[Sam]

Fut Sao Wing chun has many kicks. The toe kicks that are used for pointing are the hidden technique. http://www.geocities.com/wingchunbuddhahand/CURRICULUM.html

[Phenix]

Originally posted by yuanfen
Hendrik- that sounds intriguing.

And- how was everyone's valentine's day?

cheers. yuanfen


Joy,

There are certain medirian which is not direct related to the hands. and the 8 methods train the Liver and Kidney qi....
which be able to prevent, control, heal Hypethention...

Happy valentine day

Hendrik

[Wingman]

Originally posted by yuanfen
[snip]...jing gurk, wang gurk, soo gurk, yaai sut gurk, tiu gurk,
jut gurk,taisut, chai gurk...

cheers. yuanfen

Hi yuanfen,

Would you be so kind enough to give the give us an English translation to all those kicks. I know jing gurk = front kick; and wang gurk = side kick. But the other kicks doesn't sound familiar to me.

Thanks in advance.

[yuanfen]

In my class yesterday I went througha whole repertoire of wing chun kicks.
There are the 8 basic kicking positions that i listed in this thread. They have combinations and variations. Then there is a 8 kicking section to the dummy- gurk jong. I am no Cantonese speaker but one can have addittional names for kicking variations. But to answer your question-
jing gurk- front kick using the heel
wang gurk- side kick -out side of the heel
soo gurk- inside of the heel and arch- a sweeping motion
yaai sut gurk- downward
tiu gurk- instep
jut gurk- a jerking kick- back of the foot
tai sut- a knee motion
chai gurk- a scraping down with the knife edge

there are variations of this huen- circle, dong-rising, wu, nailing , different knee angles etc.

While we are rightly conservative in usage of kicks- when the line and control is there- the versatility of wing chun is there in the legs too including the footwork.
Ip Man himself was a versatile kicker in his time- though much of what we see in pictures of him is towards the end of his life with fading health.

you asked wingman- hope this helps. Everything that I have mentioned are latent in the forms. Plus footwork and kicking are inter-related. Good wishes-joy

[Wingman]

Thanks yuanfen for sharing. Yes, your info does help a lot.