Tai-Chi the only valid Kung_fu?

[fa_jing]

Hi. Since we've decided that BJJ, wrestling, Boxing, Muy-Thai and sometimes TKD kicking is the best for fighting, Sanshou incorporates all these, and that Wushu forms performers perserve the beauty and grace of chinese styles, why study a traditional chinese martial art? Apparently the only thing not covered by the above is Chi development, slow movement training and health. So Tai-chi, having the greatest emphasis on and development of these qualities, is exposed as the only valid Kung Fu which is an acceptable part of a fighter or hobbyist's training.

Thoughts??

[Water Dragon]

Yeah, 9 out of 10 BJJ'ers, Boxers, Thai Boxers, Judoka, and Wrestlers say: Please Mr. Shuai Chiao Man, Please don't throw me again!!!

[red5angel]

uh, not sure where your going fa_jing but not everyone buys the chi thing. Also, health is inclusive whether you like it or not in any art that works your body. Taichi in no way holds the patent on it.

[Surferdude]

You can go see a doctor for health!:D :p

[yenhoi]

Just from reading WD's posts, If I ever got a chance to train shuai chiao I would jump at it.

"what'did'ya expect, I'm just a little puppy." - Scrappy Doo

[Braden]

No. You're quite wrong. The good traditional chinese martial styles, from best to least best go:

Baguazhang, Xingyiquan, Taijiquan, then Shuia Chiao.

Everything else, you're right to reject. :D

[Water Dragon]

Bagua is the red headed step child of Shuai Chiao

[carly]

Do you really not like shuai chiao, though?

[Braden]

Shuia Chiao... isn't that that martial art where they just took a few techniques out of baguazhang and practiced them without any understanding of structure or movement?

:D ;) :D

[carly]

except to watch a few people doing the forms on their own.
Do they usually do a lot of non-cooperative two-man grappling stuff like judo or shuai chiao do?

[Royal Dragon]

LOL!! @ WD.

Ah Braden, Your list should be Li Hu, Ba Fa, Baguazhang, Xingyiquan, Taijiquan, then Shuia Chiao.

[Braden]

Carly - I'm just teasing. I don't have alot of exposure to SC, but what I've seen I do like alot. As I noted (with some seriousness), it's only one of four TCMA's I do find myself liking.

Baguazhang has alot of variability, so it's difficult to generalize. In the baguazhang I practice, we do not like to clinch like a judoka or greco-roman wrestler does, although we do operate in that range. Instead of going for a clinch, we try to keep moving, while keeping the opponent's structure and balance constantly broken, and while continually hitting them until they fall down and don't get up.

It's as close range as a clinch, but it's not a clinch.

And yes, we do unrehearsed two-man drills to train this.

Royal D - Ah... I forgot about that! It wouldn't go ahead of bagua though. :p

[ewallace]

Do they usually do a lot of non-cooperative two-man grappling stuff like judo or shuai chiao do?
When the hell did shuai chiao get spoofed?

[fa_jing]

Originally posted by red5angel
uh, not sure where your going fa_jing but not everyone buys the chi thing. Also, health is inclusive whether you like it or not in any art that works your body. Taichi in no way holds the patent on it.

Right Red, so what you are saying is that Chi does not exist, even as a term and that even Tai-Chi and thus all TCMA are completely useless, right?

Seriously, Boxing may get you in shape but I can't see it as being as health-promoting as Tai-Chi. Why don't you compare the average lifespan of Boxing artists to Tai-Chi artists? Joint stiffness or body aches into old age? You won't find too many Western Boxers practicing sexual Vampirism and living to be 250 years old like that dude in Yang Jwing Ming's book.

[fa_jing]

Oh, BTW if I could get a swedish massage every time I wanted to like a boxer there would be no more need for Tai-Chi. Seriously. But I would use my mind/intention to increase the effect of the massage.

[Royal Dragon]

Braden,
Bagua BEFORE Li Hu, Ba Fa?? No way man, Bagua is part of Li hu Ba Fa!!!! Thearfore, Bagua goes next in line. :D

Personally, I would like to get into Bagua sometime. I really like the footwork it has. I did a bit in the mid 90's, and to this day the footwork is still in my fighting methods. I like to enter Tai Tzu skills with Bagua like footwork (Although there is some circle walking in some Tai tzu sets.)

Oh, on a totally unrelated note, remember that Wu Dang Tai Tzu link you gave me a few years ago?? I finnaly got some video footage of the set!!! :D It's about 72 moves (my count) long, and not 300+. I don't know if I got part of the set, or if 72 moves is all that survived from the Ming dynasty. It's very cool, done slow, like a Taiji set.

[Braden]

Bah.. "part of"... it's all about how ya train. And we train by walking in circles! :D

That's cool about the Tai Tzu... did the postures fit into the Tai Tzu you know and have researched, or was it pretty different?

[Former castleva]

Mind/intention can be used to increase the outcome of nearly any sort of therapy I´d believe,bogus or proven (but that is another case)
I do not know if there is legitimate research being done,but I have not heard of many tai chi practitioners living up to 250 (Some of the oldest people on earth are western,with countries like Japan or possibly China known as countries with people of high age.While formerly at least,China´s mortality rate was scary)
I have heard of legendary (if even mythical?) monk Damo/Boddhidharma reaching this age but also having a taste for Yang Jwing Ming´s good books I remember him mentioning how buddhist and taoist monks/priests had their secret methods of cultivating energy (which in turn required them to live highly restricted life,somewhat natural for taoism etc.)
Old cases being,we have little solid information besides anecdotal and legends.

In your original thread,you have prints set in cement quite tight.

[Ford Prefect]

Hehehe. Just to fan the flames...

Why do Judo guys and wrestlers (a la Matt Furey) regularly put the beating on SJ guys at SJ tourney's? I couldn't resist.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by Ford Prefect
Hehehe. Just to fan the flames...

Why do Judo guys and wrestlers (a la Matt Furey) regularly put the beating on SJ guys at SJ tourney's? I couldn't resist.

Probably for the same reason that Furey regularly beats BJJ Brown's and Purple's on the mat. It's because he's full of $hit!

[ShaolinTiger00]

Ford Perfect is so correct that I can't add anything know, but am sure that this will start an epic clash and I'll jump in later on the pro judo side. :D


juido juido juido!!

[Water Dragon]

LOL @ Shaolin Tiger not understanding that the throws in San Shou come directly from Shuai Chiao.

[ShaolinTiger00]

LOL @ you for assuming what I know. and SJ doesn't have the market cornered on those throws. In fact I feel confident in saying that combined with strikes, the sanshou student has the better odds at performing a throw.

SJ is a very "fringe" and obscure form of grappling. Wrestlers and Judoka have been walking all over them for years.

The best chinese grapplers go straight to wrestling and judo when they want to be taken seriously.

SJ is the aikido of the CMA.


*tosses on a few logs, and grabs the gasoline*

Where are the heroes of SJ? Where are the Maeda's and Gracies and Gotchs and Gammas that traveled the world kicking butt and taking names?

[Water Dragon]

LOL, nope I ain't biting. :D

[ShaolinTiger00]

you really are an official *******! :D I'm using the best material I can think of!

[fa_jing]

Hmm . Lots of techniques in Shuai-Chiao not in Judo. as well as being tailored more to the stances and striking styles of a CMA stylist. Really awesome training methods, should be applicable to other arts too.

BUT, thousands of times as many people study wrestling and Judo, right? So what's your point, ST00?

Oh, p.s. why don't you weigh in on the original point of the thread, as it is an homage to your recent posts!

;)

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00
you really are an official *******! :D I'm using the best material I can think of!

Oh you're good, I'll give you that. I was about to bite hard.

[ShaolinTiger00]

shhh be quiet. *waiting for a SJ fish to nibble..*


the original topic?

kungfu - good for building speed, flexability, "flo" & other characteristics of gymnastics and dancers

taiji - great if you're 80, get the old people standing and moving, tell them its chi but its actually just some good old movement and blood circulation and breathing.

anyone younger looking for similar results should do yoga or pilates.

[ShaolinTiger00]

Oh you're good, I'll give you that. I was about to bite hard.

Don't I know it!:)

I'm still betting I get a taker...

[fa_jing]

Hey, ST00 what did you just call WaterD?????? His name is *****, not ********!!!!!!

I wouldn't stand for that if I were you, WD.

:eek: :D :( :mad: :p

[ShaolinTiger00]

fa-jing you ****, you've scared the fish! Forget the SJers now the taiji guys won't even come.

*switches lures*

[Laughing Cow]

Tai Chi rules.

The told you lies when it comes do Shaolin styles. Tai Chi is the original from which other styles come.
:D :D

Actually heard one Guy on a Board say that once.
But I think he was confused between Tai Chi & Tai Chi Chuan.
:eek: :eek:

[Water Dragon]

That's OK ST, you can always go tell Max Chen how terrible Tai Cheee is.

[Waidan]

I'd comment on all the chicanery contained in this thread, but I'm still paralyzed by this line:

"You won't find too many Western Boxers practicing sexual Vampirism and living to be 250 years old like that dude in Yang Jwing Ming's book."

WTF is that all about?

btw Bagua runs circles around your silly arts. I made a funnay.

[Xebsball]

LHBF is nice, though it has no martial applications, but i think its pretty, like Bagua but a little less flowery.

[Braden]

I don't know about boxers, but I've seen beagles practice sexual vampirism.

Scary sight.


Wesley.

[Souljah]

LHBF, please tell me how u guys know about this style.....
All I know is that theres a guy who teaches it in hong kong and a guy who teaches it in chicago.....oh yea and some guy in LA.
Has it suddenly sprung to life and everyone knows about it?
I cant find anything of real importance on it on the search engines... but then im probably spelling it wrong.....:(

[fa_jing]

Originally posted by Waidan
I'd comment on all the chicanery contained in this thread, but I'm still paralyzed by this line:

"You won't find too many Western Boxers practicing sexual Vampirism and living to be 250 years old like that dude in Yang Jwing Ming's book."

WTF is that all about?

btw Bagua runs circles around your silly arts. I made a funnay.

OK, I caught one! Actually I was being facetious as if you couldn't tell. The 250 year-old man is someone that YJM claims died in the early part of this century. Who TF knows if it's true or not. He supposedly outlived 14 wives. Sexual Vampirism is when you basically try to suck your women's internal energy up through your pipi. According to Mantak Chia's books, ancient applicants to be advisors to the king in China had to pass a test where they sucked up a full glass of wine into their bladders using everybody's favorite ****tail stirrer. So I put two and two together and figure that the 250 year-old guy was killing his wives slowly through sexual vampirism. No mention was made of the guy studying Tai Chi. Presumably he was constantly meditating and I guess was in a state like suspended animation. I don't believe the story but I think there's probably some truth to it - like maybe he lived to 150 and just lost count due to senility. :) Anyway I think anyone that tries to gain from another's unnatural loss should be shot, not celebrated. Whether or not such a thing is possible.

This is one of those "anything goes" threads. :D :eek:

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Souljah
LHBF, please tell me how u guys know about this style.....
All I know is that theres a guy who teaches it in hong kong and a guy who teaches it in chicago.....oh yea and some guy in LA.
Has it suddenly sprung to life and everyone knows about it?
I cant find anything of real importance on it on the search engines... but then im probably spelling it wrong.....:(

It's not a secret style by any means... maybe hard to come by, but many people know of it.

[SevenStar]

taiji is the pilates of CMA.

[brassmonkey]

the title of this thread had so much promise.

"Why do Judo guys and wrestlers (a la Matt Furey) regularly put the beating on SJ guys at SJ tourney's? "

Matt Furey was trained by Daniel Weng. A better question for the shui chiao guys would be about the story in Robert Smith's book about defeating all but 1 of Cha'ng students at the Central Police Academy if we could get ther other side of the story and who he sparred.

[StarBoy]

You won't find too many Western Boxers practicing sexual Vampirism and living to be 250 years old like that dude in Yang Jwing Ming's book...

...Sexual Vampirism is when you basically try to suck your women's internal energy up through your pipi...

...ancient applicants to be advisors to the king in China had to pass a test where they sucked up a full glass of wine into their bladders using everybody's favorite ****tail stirrer...


First of all, is that even possible? I always though the urethra (particularly in males) was a one way street.

Second of all, wouldn't doing that result in various kinds of infections.

Third of all, holy crap! That's just nasty.

[fa_jing]

yeah, I hope I didn't f up anybody's night due to that bit of nastiness.
:D

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

"yeah, I hope I didn't f up anybody's night "

what are you talkin about fajing? i just had to run to the store for some wine, but its really not that big a deal.

[fa_jing]

LOL :D I should have told you not to try it with the cheap stuff....