Dit Da Jow and Dit Da Medicine

[BearBear]

Dit Dar Jow:

would anyone like to teach me and share with us various dit da jow recipes or patents (ready made forumulae can buy at shops) which they know and have experience of being effective for brusies and/or strains, sprains or other things.

recipes (in detail) and any other useful information. and can u tell us why u feel the recipe u give is good or the properties of the herbs chosen etc...

and also this thread can be used for dit da/ general tcm medicine in general.

If u sell ditda jow in australia please also.

does anyone use internal medicine for brusie etc ..

thank kinda thing :P

Thanking You

BearBear

[Diamond Talons]

BearBear very good topic no doubts & it will be surprise if peoples who know this stuffs posts like you ask but they might as there plenty of guys on this forum who know so we'll see what happens if any one does share some stuffs they know on this thing okay. I think FT did some of this before as his Sifu makes his stuffs open to the public for buying & some guys from Wing Lam's group do it to I think so maybe if they start it it will grow from there I don't know as so many think this stuffs just for their hand & don't share even though healing is needed by all who do CMA hard since we all get hurt now & then I think.

[extrajoseph]

BearBear,

You can go to your local Chinatown and the herbal shops there all sell ditdajow, it is not worth the hussle to make your own. For bruises it is safer to use external medicine as the damage is on the surface of the body.

[Yum Cha]

Hi guys,
In Australia, Sifu has a product on the market called "Kung Fu Oil" which is a premium recipe "jau". From personal experience, it pi$$es on anything else you can buy in the Chinese pharmacies. The whole reason he put it on the market was due to the low quality of the "commercial" stuff.

Have a look at the link and contact me if you want to know where to get it. Two of the pharmacies in Chinatown carry it that I know of, as well as a number of other chinese pharmacies and alternative health shops around Sydney.

http://aaron.net.au/kfo/index.html

[Diamond Talons]

Hey Yum Cha that's great that your Sifu puts out the real stuffs to all peoples & most stuffs I seen guys come in with is top of vat draw with no herbs in it & looks like weak tea & really doesn't help except they might think so in their minds & maybe rubbing helps a bit so I guess it does some thing for them I don't know.

[azwingchun]

I have about 7 or 8 recipes, which all work very well. Though each formula varies greatly. I don't usually recommend buying over the counter stuff, though this is my preference anyway. It tends to be usually watered down greatly.

Depending on who you speak to, some will say the jows with the most herbs are the best, and some will say the jows with the least herbs are the best (depending on the fact that the right herbs are chosen). Though, the proper herbs chosen is always the key to great jow. I can't remember the flower that my TCM teacher used in Hong Kong. But it consisted of only one herb and that was this certain flower bud. I will get back to you when I speak to him again. He claims this to be the best formula out of all the jows he has seen.

I can list a few formulas here, but to go into detail on each herb and their quality will be very lengthy, so I will list a formula or two, if interested and you can look them up for yourself. I can also give you the name of a few books that give great descriptions of these herbs also if interested. ;)

The true benefit of making you own jow in my opinion, is price. You can make a gallon or so for about $40.00-$70.00 and get. You do the math and figure how much jow you get for the price opposed to buying it a bottle at a time. ;)

[azwingchun]

Here is a pretty simple one:

Rhizoma Seu Radix Notopterygii 12gm
Radix Angelicae Pubescents 12gm
Angelica 12gm
Olibanum 12gm
Myrrha 12gm
Radicis 12gm
Cinnimomi 12gm
Clematidis 12gm
Cyperi 12gm
Chaenomelis 12gm
Drynariae 12gm
Odoriferae 12gm
Almond Kernel 12gm
Notoginseng 12gm
Flos Caryophylli 12gm
Flos Carthami 12gm

Enjoy! ;)

[azwingchun]

By the way, I have posted this book before I believe. If you are looking for a pretty good book on herbs, their descriptions, functions and uses. The book is called, Chinese-English Manual of Common-Used in Traditional Chinese Medicine, ISBN 7-5359-2419-0.

[fiercest tiger]

The kung fu oil is pretty good from seng sifu i also like the woodlock oil. Both these oils will heat up the area as it has camphor and peppermint etc etc The kung fu oil i found isnt good for kung fu training but for sore muscles and strains. The jau reciepes i find better for training 3 stars, iron palms, chi kung not the dit dar Yao (oils) more for massage and heating up the muscles. If that makes sense? I also like shen gu shau (sp):)

There are plenty of patent formulas out there depends on what you want to train in and how hard you train.

FT:)

[BearBear]

Yum Cha:

Thanks. this jow is good for bruising? deep "bone" brusing? strains? sprains? all of the above.

is this a jow which could be used everyday after say sam da sing (forearm bone toughening?

i'll look over ur good site for an address, but how much?

quick side track: what kinds of things/exercises does pak mei do (if they do) for hand, arm, body, shinetc toghening?? is this the jow u use for that also?

Azwingchun:

Thanks for the great info an books! yeah i agree especially since im poor also its good idea to make ur own jow also fun (well maybe the firstfew times) and part of kung fu training.
thank you for sharing openly... ALL information u wish to share i look forward to learning! :P

Diamond Talons:

hello :) how are you. hope everything is good.

FT:

just read ur post.. answered one of my quest to Yumcha...

im interested in jow for what i would call preventative and toughening pruposes as well as say a strain or light brusie form over training..
such as u mention for 3 star hit and palm training

as i asked yum cha i also ask u as a side track what kinds of things and any exercises u wish to discribe for ykm's take on shin, hand, forearm etc conditioning?

u have a nice information on a 1 herb jow do u think this is the same 1 herb (bud) mentioned by azwingchun's sifu...

i think u mean

thanks everyone for your posts

i'll try your ideas


can any one know a good and CHEAP :) herb supplier in qld or oz.

lastly one of my teacher once used a powder to stop bleeding from knife cut in training it was a powder .. trying to think back 18 or so years i think it was called yonan or yunan yao or jow .. i'll have a search for it.. biut anyone know use that? it was indonesian teacher but i know it was chinese herbs

thanks!

[fiercest tiger]

Tin Chut will stop the bleeding and can be packed into a wound.

I have many formulas, you can try my iron palm jow or email personally. I have arthitis jow fung sup jow, also and chi kung jow. lots of formulas also i havent tried!! I also have a very good oil formula of ykm but kinda hard to make need to have mask and boil oil and stir constantly over a hot fire etc.:) so i just by it from my sibak( grandmaster in hongkong).

as for conditioning im a big believer in hardness and power training. 3 , 5, 7 star in hands and legs combined, from hands to shoulders, ribs, thighs, calfs etc

many drills for all different strengths.


take care
FT

[Yum Cha]

Originally posted by BearBear
Yum Cha:

Thanks. this jow is good for bruising? deep "bone" brusing? strains? sprains? all of the above.

is this a jow which could be used everyday after say sam da sing (forearm bone toughening?

i'll look over ur good site for an address, but how much?

quick side track: what kinds of things/exercises does pak mei do (if they do) for hand, arm, body, shinetc toghening?? is this the jow u use for that also?

thanks!

Kung Fu Oil is best used as a before and after training liniment. Knees, back, shoulders. It breaks up stasis, or bruising, where "dead" blood collects and promotes healing by enhancing circulation. I have tired old knees, and this has given me significantly improved comfort and flexibility.

As a side note, it takes bruises off my wife's pretty white legs quite nicely too <grin>. Another secret beauty tip from the House of Pak Mei for the fair skinned ladies...LOL.

Sifu says it has many common ingredients with "bone hardening wine" which is alcohol based, but it is peppermint oil based and a lot "Hotter". He has several preparations, this is the one he felt would be most useful to the most people. Think of it as a multi-purpose preparation. The ingredients come in from China and he cooks it here in Sydney.

I think its between $10 and $15 a bottle, which as you can see is rather large, mine last me 6 or 8 months, using it liberally...

The ingredients are listed on the web page, compare and contrast if you wish with some of the other recipes people post.

My recommendation to anybody is to try it and see. I've used many over time, and nothing has helped my joints like this one.

[BearBear]

Yum Cha & FT:

thanks for the detailed info!
FT thanks for the info on the blood stopping one

:)

[cha kuen]

Tit dar!

I bought a small bottle from a chi kung healer. Later I bought an over the counter one and I can tell the small bottle one is better. It just smells so much stronger.

Does anyone have the recipe for the tit dar powder? The powder that is a mix of 40 herbs where you have to cook it with alcohol on a stove to make a hot patch that you put on your body for a day?

[azwingchun]

The powder you are speaking about is called Yunan Pai Yao, I believe. I may have spelled it incorrectly. It only cost like $2.00 for a small bottle. You can buy it in any Chinese grocery store or hebalist shop, at least here in Arizona. ;)

[azwingchun]

I have had a few request for more jow formulas, so I will post somemore ot them gor those who are interested. This first one is a simpler version of the one I posted last. It is also from my TCM teacher Dr. Peter Chow.

Cinnamomi 24gm
Nototginseng 24gm
Almond Kernel 24gm
Angelica 24gm
Flos Carthami 24gm

[azwingchun]

This forumla is by a local Ba Gua, Xing Yi and Tai Chi Sifu here in Arizona, it also works very well.

Flos Carthami 12gm
Semen Persicae 12gm
Faeces Trogopterori 12gm
Olibanum 12gm
Angelica 12gm
Radix Dipsaci 12gm
Herba Lycopi 12gm
Radix Clematidis 12gm
Pyritum 12gm
Ramulus Cinnamomi 12gm
Caulis Akebiae 12gm
Resina Draconis 12gm
Cortex Acanthopanacis Radicis 12gm
Os Tigris 12gm
Radix Paeoniae Rubra 12gm
Lignum Sappan 12gm
Rhizoma Seu Radix Notopterygii 12gm
Radix Sileris 12gm
Radix Auklandiae 12gm
Notoginseng 12gm
Angelicae Dahuricae 12gm
Cinnamomi 12gm
Eupolyphaga Seu Steleophaga 12gm
Semen Trichosanthis 12gm
Tindsgoria Saiensis 12gm

[Gold Horse Dragon]

A good Dit Da Jow must have herbs to achieve these effects: control bleeding of a contusion (bruise), dispel blood stasis, invigorate blood circulation, act as an analgesic (reduce pain), move chi in the channels, reduce swelling and heal bone fractures.

Here is a formula that does the above:

Sanguis draconis (xue jie) 15 grams
Carthamus tinctorii (flos) (Hong Hua)10 gms
Gummi olibanum (ru xiang)15 gms
Myrrha (mo yao) 15 gms
Borneol (bing pian) 3 gms
Pyritum (zi ran tong) 15 gms
Acacua seu Uncaria (er cha) 5 gms
Radix Pseudoginseng(San Qi) 8gms

You can get all of these herbs in any Chinatown herb store.
I use a special formula which has additional herbs that are only grown by myself and not found in the stores, and is better than the above formula. But the above formula will work well for most injuries.

Put the herbs in a ceramic pot with enough water to cover the herbs. Bring to a hard boil (covered) for 5 minutes and then let stand for 24 hours. Put hte herbs and liquid into a wide mouth glass jar and pour in strong alcohol (ratio of alcohol to the boiled water/herb decoction should be 90% alcohol 10% decoction). Let stand in a dark warm place for several weeks before using. Do not store in sunlight and keep tightly capped.

Use of any Dit Da Jow must be accompanied by proper massage and reduction technique to the injured area for it to work well. For severe swelling from an injury, apply the jow with very light massage and then ice in the first 24 hours. After that use massage and jow, no ice. When the swelling has subsided, use jow, massage, a hot compress to the area and then more jow and massage.

This formula can also be used for any of the iron gongs training such as iron palm.

Do not take the jow internally and keep it out of your eyes and away from sensitive skin areas (if you know what I mean!)

GHD

[azwingchun]

I agree with you on everything you said, except fot the point of using ice for 24 hours. We must come from 2 different schools of theory. The use of ice will distract from the herbs which help blood and qi flow. Ice causes the blood to slow down and possibly become stagnant. This is the opposite of what you want to do in my opinion. Again, this is my opinion and doesn't always mean much, but this is how it has been passed down to me by my teacher. The idea of using cold is both a contemparay theory as well as a western medical theory.

With that said, I enjoyed your post. I didn't mention the massaging techniques, due to the same as mentioned above, there are 2 different schools of thoughts on that as well. We don't massage lightly usually, usually we massage firmly with a sedative technique. ;)

[azwingchun]

I have posted before that is anyone wants the rest of the formulas I have, feel free to e-mail me. My e-mail is chandlerwingchun@cox.net . ;)

By the way, I mentioned to other board members that my written formulas have both the Chinese characters with them and the Latin. But my scanner is down, so I can't scan them with the Chinese Characters for another week or so. But I will be more than happy to e-mail the Latin form if interested. Enjoy. ;)

[BearBear]

Thanks Guys


keep away from sensitive skin areas (if you know what I mean!

hehe .. my teacher student was a brick layer and it ended up that he gradually recommended some jow tohis work makes for back pain, sore knees etc as builders would get... anyway he one day toldthe story that one of the builders rubbed jow on his elbow and soon after had to go to the toilet, forgetting his had not washed his hands after using the jow especially since that jow permiate (? mean go into) the skin and so not oily etc.. but anyways in the process of going to the toilet he touched his "sensitive skin area" and was VERY unconfortable!!!

Cold or Heat in acute injurt management is always a debate, i think it comes down to personal choice and particualr injuries also, sometimes a combination, there is much information for and against both sides.

thanks for sharing

BB

[Gold Horse Dragon]

AZ
Ice is only used in the first 24 hours and only used if there is swelling (after that use heat). Heat used on swelling right after an injury will only cause more swelling to get rid of. Similar, massage soon after an injury must be light so as not to aggravate the injury. The light massage is light right on the injury and gets heavier the further you move away from the focus of the injury.
I agree with you about different schools of thought, but I have successfully treated injuries (including severe contusions to the bone) this way for over 25 years.

GHD

[azwingchun]

I think BearBear summed it up best. Personal choice is where it seems to be. I personally have only been using massage and the healing arts maybe 7 or 8 years, these techniques I speak about work just as well for me, as yours seems to for you. My teacher has also been using this system his entire career. For what it is worth my grandmother used very similar techniques as my Sifu.

As far as using heat on severe trauma, I never said that we use heat if you read my post, I actually said we don't use ice for this. Though, after re-reading my post I can see where you would get that from how it is written. In fact, what we do do, is use touching techniques and use what is referred to as cold qi to sedate. I don't know what your belief is when it comes to using energy to heal, but this is my main area of study right now. I am sure some will have their comments about this. LOL! ;)

But, as I said prior, it is great to see varying view points from other healers. So, I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Nice chatting with you.

;)

[Yum Cha]

FWIW, I believe the principle is consistant across all cultures.

Circulation brings healing power. Heat increases circulation by opening capillaries. Cold closes them down, squeezing out dead blood, or diminishing the bleeding of broken capillaries.

The preparations topically applied improve circulation and combined with massage clear up the area so fresh new blood can move through and heal.

Ice is good to prevent the collection of dead blood into a "fresh" bruise. Hot and cold in alternation will "pump" blood through an injured area. Heavy massage on a fresh bruise is counter productive, as it both hurts and doesnt do anything to stop the internal bleeding.

To my understanding there is very little that can penetrate the skin. DMSO is one example. I have my doubts as to the herbs, but nothing would surprise me, as the results I've had from topical herbal treatments (various liniments, poltices, baths etc) have been undeniably effective and verifiable. Many Jaus aren't supposed to be used on broken skin, which indicates they don't penetrate the skin anyway (hopefully??). Analgesics don't require penetration to diminish pain. Some of the Iron Palm stuff kills nerves and causes callouses to grow with proper "massage". It can also cripple your hands so be advised lads.

I'm no doctor, or physio, I can only speak from my own experience.

I'm more scientist than shaman by nature, but reality is reality and there is lots I simply can't explain, but trust nevertheless.

[Gold Horse Dragon]

AZ

I was not agreeing or disagreeing, just stating my school of thought and experience. :)

YC

With proper training and jow there is no damage to the trained hand (crippled) and there are no callouses.

GHD

[cha kuen]

If someone were to practice bonesetting in the US, what would be some of the things that they would have to be careful about so they won't get sued?

There is certification for accpunture and tuina but none for bonesetting.

What legal issues should the bonesetter keep in mind? This is probably the same issues related to people who practice other holistic arts such as Reiki, and what not.

Be careful about recommending excercises? Move to chinatown and practice there since the Chinese already know and are comforable about bonesetting? Only see people that are referred to you?

[azwingchun]

That's fine, I wasn't argueing either. As I stated, it is always nice to share varying viewpoints on this matter. Thanks for sharing yours.;)

[fiercest tiger]

There is 2 ways to do it, the right way and the wrong way.

[Diamond Talons]

FT hi & things going okay so thanks for asking & I'm getting schit sling by some stupid trolls so thats mean I doing okay on this forum stuffs too. This thread is really clean & isn't it great to see so much open sharing of stuffs mostly in past kept behind doors & this is where power of this Internet shows to be real I think. I read where you say right & wrong way with Iron Palm & I think there are right ways & many many wrong ways so what are you allowed to say about right way as you know it as theres plenty of craps on wrong ways that young guys mess with & wind up with some really screwed up hands sometimes for life & sometimes can be fixed from what I see of this thing. Here's a deal I make with you for the forum guys okay & if you post something without getting youself in trouble with your Sifu on right way of Iron Palm as your Pai knows it & make it something they can use then I post something on fingers from my hand that makes for stabbing fingers for these guys that they can use okay.

[fiercest tiger]

I will share some knowledge on YKM iron hand skill. We have 3 levels as i once mentioned each have 3-4 stages of hardness and softness. Meds and chi kung to heal and settle the chi and blood as well as different formulas for each level of training.

level 1 is static and slaps onto a bag of rice or peas for stage 1 with herbs inside the bag if you like to add the herbs. The hand exercise isnt much different to most other arts but the meds, chi gung, herbs are different etc. One must start gentle and learn focus, timing, correct bone alignment, breathing, from a short distance we drop or hit the bag to develop the heavy hand and short power but its done very gentley at the begining working up to many reps without injuried or calousos. Old crude methods like stabbing the fingers can be bad but will condition faster and give you health problems. I also have been told that rusty nails was also used in jow to make it more potent but i never use the rusty nails.

this is all i will say for now, please talk of your hand!?:)


REGARD
FT:)

[Diamond Talons]

FT yes that's how I know this thing too & I tell young guys best to do too little now & then than too much one time as it sure as hell mess up the hand & needs a long break just to start all over again but mostly they don't listen too good as young guys all thinks more is better all the time. Same stuffs as you say for fingers but its put in a bucket set 1/2 between waist & shoulders at angle so mouth or open end facing up & to the guy & fingers extended but lightly cupped with palm down thrust into stuffs at angle down to follow path of bucket & as fingers touch they straighten out all the way but not from fingers but from palm of hand as it goes from lightly cupped like holding a big ball to flat. Power to make the fingers straight comes from hand & not fingers their self & once go in as deep as you can that time then fingers buried under stuff are spread wide as you can apart while doing tension & not fast like & hand swirls one time to outside & next time inside & back & forth like this okay. When all the way opened fingers swirl through stuff they then close but closing power from hand & not fingers so much but when closed all the way squeezed very very tight like in closed fist. Then hand pulled all the way out but all power comes from shoulder so shoulder goes forward on thrust & pulls back when taking out & elbow bends to clear hand from bucket then shoulder shoots forward & fingers opened fast as you can but power that opens fingers comes from hand & not fingers so much & stuffs thrown like back into bucket. Okay this is a little bit of how I know this thing okay & chi kung & herbs dammed good stuffs to have when doing this as its possible to really screw up doing too much & not know too much done until its too late so chi kung & herbs give some protection to mistakes which are going to happen sometimes to all peoples I think.

[Oldyela]

Anyone who understands what DT has written please post a translation.

Elliot

[extrajoseph]

Elliot that's how I know this thing okay he said young guys don't listen too good as young guys all thinks more is better all the time you've got to talk with your hands then he tells us in graphic detail of how he does finger and palm master-baition with chi kung & herbs its possible to really screw up doing too much & not know too much done until its too late okay this is a little bit of how I know this thing okay.

[ironbridge#9]

my only advice is if you are going to make your own medicine beware..most herb shops wont think twice about selling you garbage herbs..or even the wrong herb if its cheaper and looks like what you are buying...so buyer beware...not saying all are bad and shady..but many are so be prepared to and dont be afraid to argue price and to ask for better quality...

[5thBrother]

How is Zheng Gu Shui ...

is it effective for bruise like from 3 star and shin toughening or deep bruise on body etc or is it more just for next morning exercse soreness??

thanks