does this ring a bell

[prana]

You're completely clear, like crystal. Your body is like that of translucent, glowing light. You are about 3-5 feet tall, and your arms are shorter than usual. At the end of your arms are about 2 fingers and a thumb. Both your fingers are touching your thumb lightly.

There is two distinct tubes on either side of your body, and it meets just near your navel. Your thoughts are emitting violently from there. You breathe in and your mind dives into this area and is coupled by great bliss.

As you breathe out, this great bliss follows another tube, travelling straight up the center of the translucent body and reaches the top of your head.

Does this ring a bell with anyone here ? If it does, let me know your thoughts and experiences.

Sorry for the "strange" post, I am just bored and suddenly curious over something....

[ZIM]

Yes. Not too often, tho. And not necessarily blissful, either during or after for a day or so.

There's an indication there that I'm pretty much aware of.

Some of the details are a little off for me [everyones a little different (?)] like the 3 fingers thing [really I hadn't thought about it] and the 2 distinct tubes are not always that- more like coiled springs extending the length of the torso.

Hearing flutes and bells? ;)

[prana]

ZIM,

how did you come across this experience ? I am keen to hear your path you have been. I am glad you know what I am on about, its hard to share these experiences, especially when everyone thinks I've gone nuts ... (maybe I have heheh)

[ZIM]

For a while now, I've been into Gurdjieff's teachings (http://www.disinfo.com/pages/dossier/id132/pg1.html), though less so currently. The initial experience happened during a time of emotional turmoil that I'm reluctant to discuss- hope you understand.

I do know what you're referring to, but generally I'm less open about it. :) I've since done degrees in psychology, so no one can absolutely call me nuts- thats my job to determine, right? ;) In Gurdjieff's POV the kundalini is ALSO a thing that ties us to the world of things...this POV is something I'm slowly altering; more info can be found on the net, if you like. I'm thinking 'ALSO' is too strong a word, maybe 'ALSO CAN BE' is better.

As for it not necessarily being 'blissful': I'm frequently subject to [given?] kriyas- spontaneous uncontrolled movements- best way to describe them is like a leaf being shook by the wind, usually accompanied by laughter. It's more disorienting/potentially embarassing than anything.

It begins typically in the shoulder girdle [quick and sharp there] then extends to the waist/hips [deep and swaying there]. I can only say that it seems I'm being pushed to it. I've been told that it means I've more clearing to do on many levels. Yoga helps. What I enjoy now is the Nad [sound] meditations.

Have you gone nuts? Sure you have, in a way. But you need to take a different POV to see that- declaring someone 'nuts' is all too often a declaration of exclusion by society, when it is more of a medical pronouncement [or should be]. OTOH, you are simply doing something not too well understood by our society, a rarefied experience...I don't think you'd be locked up. :)


Go out one clear starlit night to some open space and look up at the sky, at those millions of worlds over your head. Remember that perhaps on each of them swarm billions of beings, similar to you or perhaps superior to you in their organization. Look at the Milky Way. The earth cannot even be called a grain of sand in this infinity. It dissolves and vanishes, and with it, you. Where are you? And is what you want simply madness?

Before all these worlds ask yourself what are your aims and hopes, your intentions and means of fulfilling them, the demands that may be made upon you and your preparedness to meet them.

A long and difficult journey is before you; you are preparing for a strange and unknown land. The way is infinitely long. You do not know if rest will be possible on the way nor where it will be possible. You should be prepared for the worst. Take all the necessities for the journey with you.
-Gurdjieff

[prana]

ZIM,

heheh perhaps we are talking a different thing, but sure is interesting... Thanks for sharing your experience Zim :)

[ZIM]

Umh-hmmmmn.

See why I don't talk about it? :confused:

[prana]

Zim,

For me, it was simple, I was feeling very sickly one day, and refused to take pain killers, so I just lied down on the right side and seeked the Blue Buddha on my crown to help me. I woke up in a state like this, as mentioned above, and then started reacting, and woke up from it.

See my post, has a very strong Buddhist bias I guess, hence I didnt want to go too far away from it. But please dont feel as if I have a close mind, although it came across that way, I didnt want to sound/ask dumb questins about your experience....

Sorry about my unkindness, I realise it would come across wrongly.... I hope you understand, and if you wish to share more, please feel free to... I am thankful that at least you spoke up and replied to this thread. And yes there is a high possibility, definitely perhaps that these beings that I pray, evoke whatever you wanna call it, exists perhaps in another place and not just thorugh meditation... and there are many other ways to get there.

Ahh I am not good at explaining things, so you can help me out by reading btwn the lines ?

[Cheese Dog]

While meditating I have experienced something kinda like yours.

My body/mind seems to be HUGE and empty and it feels like my (for want of a better word) soul is a tiny white point of energy in the middle of this vast empty space. Not really sure what to make of this.

[ZIM]

prana- no problem, not offended. We simply come from differing traditions when speaking of these things...although both aim towards awakening...yours that of the monk, mine the Fourth- or magus- way [I'm using Gurdjieffian terms here].

Certainly, by highlighting the differences in experience rather than commonalities [as I was doing], misunderstandings can ensue.

Within the Fourth Way, what attains towards original underlying Unity is what counts...hopefully I've shared an insight towards that.

[prana]

ZIM actually I have a lot of interest in the extraordinary, and in beings beyond out perception. Pyramids, sounds, shapes, the last ice age and pre that era. You know it would be an excellent idea for us to start another thread and concentrate on that because I know Felipe Bido is also very keen on the subjects.

Perhaps ?

[ZIM]

prana- sorry, got caught up with another thingie...didn't mean to leave you hangin' :)
I suppose that'd be an interesting thread, but I don't know really how much I could contribute, to tell the truth. Give it a shot, we'll see how it goes.

Cheese dog- thats actually a pretty good thing.
I don't know what methods you use, but my questions might be: does the point of light move, whether requested to or not? Can it change size? Is there anything beyond it? If I wanted to, could I place its focus in my big toe? Is it really and finally there? :)

[Cheese Dog]

ZIM, it didn't move on it's own and I never thought of trying to move it. Didn't change size or do anything else either. This was during still seated meditation and it happened a good many years ago-at least 15. If you have any ideas as to its meaning I'd love to hear them!

Thanks,

Cheese Dog

[ZIM]

My approach is "trust, but verify". :)

Some schools of thought would poke around at it to see if its actually 'it' [I believe Buddhism has this to a degree as well]...after all, it could be, like a mote of dust, simply where you're placing your conciousness at the time [hence- does it move?, can it move?].

OTOH, some schools of thought might say, "birth that mother!" :) They might cultivate it as a precious child..

[ZIM]

"And then in the midst of such a fit of mysterious and overwhelming delight I became a shaman, not knowing myself how it came about. But I was a shaman. I could see and hear in a totally different way. I had gained my quameneq ('lightning'), my enlightenment, the shaman-light of brain and body, and this in such a manner that it was not only I who could see through the darkness of life, but the same light also shone out from me, imperceptible to human beings, but visible to all the spirits of earth and sky and sea, and these now came to me and became my helping spirits."
- The Eskimo shaman Aua, quoted in Intellectual Culture of the Igluilik Eskimos (1929), p. 119

"I see nothing with my eyes, my ears hum,
sweat pours from me, a trembling seizes me all over,
I am greener than grass,
and it seems to me
that I am little short of dying..."
- Sappho

[Former castleva]

Some of the stuff you have mentioned reminds me of what I think could be called "dissociative disorder" (hehe,beware since can be a broad definition) by us peeps.
Wellie,such "subjective" visions are quite hard to research intelligently and I do not know exactly how much has been done but anyways,this is how I approach.

[ZIM]

CONTEXT, dude! ;) Yeah, familiar with the term....I'd say the states are somewhat dissociative, but not qualifying as disorder, if you're catching my drift...

...its the same as a christian monk attaining some alternate state of mind. Not dissociative IF this occurs within the context it would be expected in. Or, for that matter, drug users, hypnotic subjects, etc. etc.

Anyhow, good to remember, sure. :) You are interested in alot of the neuro stuff...are you in school for it?

Hey, where'd prana go??

[Former castleva]

CONTEXT, dude! Yeah, familiar with the term....I'd say the states are somewhat dissociative, but not qualifying as disorder, if you're catching my drift..."
Yeah.That may not be the most correct translation there is,do still have things to learn about specialized english. :cool:
Besides,I see...

"...its the same as a christian monk attaining some alternate state of mind. Not dissociative IF this occurs within the context it would be expected in. Or, for that matter, drug users, hypnotic subjects, etc. etc. "
Yeah.
That´s quite interesting.
I´m not too proficient with this so I keep backing up a bit but what combines such is certain "willingnes" in various cases.
Some ppl are "easy preys" for hypnosis and may be lured easily,mechanism is,to me,somewhat similar to that of meditation (not very keen to say whether these both involve "altered" state which is also viewed as high activity in frontal brain) Feelings of mystical affairs and unition that you linked to drugs etc. can also be experienced by certain brain diseases,naturally enough,psychiatric background can trigger various visions too. :)
There is still a lot of research to be done on such taken-for-granted things like senses,so there´s work to be done.
To cut for now,in traditional belief systems we do have "set patterns" to associate these things with,and for many ppl that works.

"Anyhow, good to remember, sure. You are interested in alot of the neuro stuff...are you in school for it?"
Nope.Most probably will be,shooting for that.