Block vs Trap

[David Jamieson]

Using a block vs a trap. Or a trap and pull. Which do you find yourself doing more and at what point in your training did you start trapping accurately?

At what point in in your training did you start blocking accurately?

When I say accurately, I mean that you conciously move in the millisecond required to execute the block or trap.

At what point in your training did you start to counter immediately following your block or trap?

Just thinking about it.

cheers

[Starchaser107]

When you speak of trapping are you referring to chin na?

As for blocking w/ counter vs. chin na, it depends on the circumstance , i can't really say at this stage if i prefer one over the other.
"At which stage of training did it become instinctive to go for certain things ?", : thats a very good question. - I can't answer that just yet. And theres always room for improvement.

[dnc101]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
... at what point in your training did you start trapping accurately? At what point in in your training did you start blocking accurately? When I say accurately, I mean that you conciously move in the millisecond required to execute the block or trap.

By that standard, I'm still working on it.

I don't know if I could point to a time when I started to trap. They just happen, and it started fairly early for me. But the light doesn't just come on and you are a trapper. Like everything else, it is something you work to improve and expand on.

Frictional pulls are a little tougher to practice than traps, so they aren't developed as rapidly (at least for me). The reason for a frictional pull is usually to pull him into a simultaneouse strike. And they work better than you think they will, so it is easy to really hurt your sparing partner. On the other hand, it's worth the risk just to see the look on his face when you get it!:cool:

[Braden]

I try my best not to do either.

[Oso]

two of my 'milk' moves or combos utilize trapping.

I'm better at it if I'm being aggresive. I find counter trapping
difficult at best and will tend to ride, stick and slip where I
can't counter trap.

but, as far as getting into a millisecond standard...HA, probably
never for me.

[Braden]

Oso - nice avatar! That's one of my favorite sci fi books...

[Oso]

T'anks. Any other Heinlein or just that one?

[Oso]

Braden, why don't you do either?

Bagua only, hunh? got me thinking now. I have a very limited
knowledge of it but now I'm thinking about what I do know in
the context of not blocking or trapping. hmmm, maybe I jes got
me a bit of enlightenment.

[Braden]

I love Heinlein in general, that and Tunnel in the Sky are probably my favorites of his though.

Yeah, only bagua.

There's the idea that if you think in terms of blocking and trapping, you are creating a rhythm in combat: you strike, I strike, you strike, I strike. The winner of this kind of contest is the strong and the fast. Moreover, this approach sends the message, "Ok, now it's your turn to attack", which is never an offer you want to send, since an attacker is likely to take you up on it.

You don't want a rhythm in combat. You don't want turns.

[Oso]

hmmm, I was thinking more in the physical sense and thinking
about the palm changes and footwork combined and the range
at which you do them and how maybe you wouldn't necessarily
look at that as blocking/deflecting/trapping or anything.

'course, like I said my knowledge there is slight at best.

still food for thought.


Heinlein: given your acknowledged interests in your profile, I
might suggest "Jerry was a Man" as a short story by RH. If you
havn't read it yet. It's in one of the compilations. I could check
for which one. One of my favorites by him.

[TaoBoy]

We never block only deflect, trap or defend with an attacking move (slip over their strike etc).

We train to deflect initially and after about 6 months we train the traps. They are trained simultaneously. This gives the student a choice of response.

We have always been taught to counter immediately after deflection. It's all about stealing the opponent's time.

[Braden]

I'll check it out, thanks. I don't think I've ever read any of his shorts...

I think I know what you mean about the palm changes, and agree. I wasn't sure how much bagua you knew...

Working unrehearsed with my teacher, we run through all the ranges, and generally I am 'corrected' if I do any movement which isn't an attack. It's hands-on work that, coupled with the forms and rehearsed methods, slowly builds up a peculiar approach to combat. It's difficult to put into words; all the more so, I'm sure, since I'm not good at it in the first place.

[Oso]

I've just covered basics mainly. I will walk the circle and do the
palm changes as part of my routine and I learned a form about
2 years ago which I have forgotten since it was right before my
test for sifu!!! I told him I would not be able to remember
while concentrating on the test but you just can't say no to your
sifu all that much.
I'm a little infatuated with bagua though and hope to explore
it deeper in the coming years.

thanks for the dialogue.

Matt


tao boy, I'll be the first to admit that when all else is failing no
matter how hard I try to stick to the program...I'm just blocking.
Better that then getting hit.:eek:

[Black Jack]

Watching a freeflow trapping exchange between two experts can be a beautiful thing, so amazing in its wonder that it makes me want to pick up a stick and smash pretty things, but it brings to my mind something called technique overload. :D

Just hit 'em.

That means that due to my "I am Sam" view of the question I prefer the simpler means of either if neccessary. I would rather be on the aggressive as action beats reaction. The old saying goes that a good defense is a good offense.

[Aslan]

Aren't both appropriate, each having a time and place for their application?

You won't always block and you won't always trap.

I doubt I will every be satisfied with either until I can do both at the instant my opponent starts a movement.

:D

[dnc101]

Aslan, you are correct. Further, a trap can flow from a block, or a blocking strike.

[yenhoi]

Attack attack attack attack attack attack attack..... when something gets in the way.... attack!

although to actually answer... I got energy sensitive about 1 year into MA training.




:eek:

[grifter721]

Sounds like you are are Mantis practioner than a wing chunner but heck either way wicked, sounds good either way keep up with da trainin.

[desertwingchun2]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kung Lek
Using a block vs a trap. Or a trap and pull. Which do you find yourself doing more and at what point in your training did you start trapping accurately?

When I say accurately, I mean that you conciously move in the millisecond required to execute the block or trap.

At what point in your training did you start to counter immediately following your block or trap?
[/QUO

Trapping was and is taught early in our system. For me personally I became comfortable with it maybe four to six months in.

As far as countering after - Wing Chun is about simultaneous offense and defense so Yenhoi is correct about attack attack attack.

-David

[FatherDog]

Where's the "evade" option?

[yenhoi]

grifter721: I practice the way of yenhoi's method of smashing people fist style.

:D

[KnightSabre]

I would rather slip or shield than block or deflect,

Slipping gives me the advantage of avoiding the strike and having both my hands available to counter,

Shielding is best suited when you are being overwhelmed by strikes,it also has no disadvantage if the person starts using dumbies like the blocks or deflects do.

[Merryprankster]

If, by trapping, you mean closing the gap and putting people on their asses, I trap more frequently than anything else.

[red5angel]

"Sounds like you are are Mantis practioner than a wing chunner "

If you are trapping more then striking in wingchun your doing it wrong.
Wing chun is where I got my philosophy, while trapping is neat and all, attacking is the key, trapping them means you are trapping you as well so why bother? I do it when I am showing someone something and don't want to hurt them but why would you get "fancy" when you should be getting serious?

[Losttrak]

I never touch hands when I can be hitting instead. I block upon necessity only. I would much rather let it slide by... If he is a better puncher, I will trap. If I am trying to be merciful or not hurt the person I will trap. From a technical standpoint, there is a big difference in trapping and blocking but when I block I always trap by habit. Why give up "food" if he is feeding you?

[fa_jing]

for me - Traps flow out of blocks. A trap will never occur without blocking (ok deflecting) first. They basically consist of applying further control after you've already made contact with the opponents arm. They occur simulatenous with a strike with the other hand, unless I am trying to trap both of their arms and then work the clinch or grapple. In Wing Chun we like to trap their arms into their body or restrict their arm's movement.

[Mr.Binx]

My nephew uses blocks all the time. You know the kind with letters and numbers carved into them? He can throw those things really hard! :eek:
Also, you should never use traps when fighting Indiana Jones... he always escapes them without even losing his hat! d00d, WTF?! :confused:

[nospam]

"...Or a trap and pull.." ****! I never even thought of that!? What a grand idea. Thanks a loonie Kung Lek.

I can't comment right now as I'm gunna go train a little and read some MA mags to work out the kinks.

Hey..trap and pull. Sounds so vin chun. I wonder in Bruce has something about this in any of the books I have of his.

I wonder if I should lead with my lead hand or initiate with my back..??

:D

Trap and pull by moi.

nospam.
:cool: