View Full Version : Golden Bell (no seriously)

02-14-2001, 02:36 PM
Has anybody any info on this. I started a thread in the Northern Mantis forum and was advised to post here as this is part of a northern shaolin system.

Please take a look at the post in Mantis section with the same title. Ta

"feel free to criticize, I may learn something new"

02-15-2001, 01:17 AM
In the Bak Sil Lum (Northern Shaolin) system as passed down from Ku Yu Geong. Golden bell is practed as an Iron Body Chi Gong. Not just for health but with a very Martial Purpose.

It is actually two sections. Small golden bell and big golden bell.

Small is comprised of 17 sections working on different parts of the body and takes almost an hour to complete. Big is to only be attempted if you get past the small.

This is a very old topic that had been discussed in detail within the last year. Archives permitting, you should attempt a search.


doug maverick
02-16-2001, 11:37 PM
he buddy,
i think your wrong but i could be,
but isn't golden bell more advanced then iron body
i subscribe to dragons list,
and in one of the articles the author said that golden bell is achieved without "beating" on one's self and it is more internal it is like "filling"
your self with chi energy even iron body is good it makes you use up your energy u need for when you are in your eldery years.
right or wrong

02-17-2001, 12:02 AM
Hi BT, Yeah I'm trying my best.

Well I try to post what i know something about. My Sifu Wing Lam teaches it and I learned sections 1-6. Although Hung Gar is my main style, i have learned some of the Bak Sil Lum system. I can tell you with all certainty that how WE do it is as i've described.

My Si-hings practice small bell and they do the whole 17 sections. I have participated in many Iron Body demos, bricking bricks over heads with sledge hammers, doing the "patented" Steel rebar to the throat point of my older brothers. ect ect.

Dai Gum skills are not my forte but i do have some experience. I train to hit...not be hit, hahaahahah.

ease on bro,

02-17-2001, 12:58 AM
could you pleae tell me if it can be dangerous to do Hsing-I san ti breathing on the same day that you do golden bell and iron wire training? I figure you would be a good person to ask, since your sifu does styles which do all three. Thanks for any advice that you can give me regarding this.

02-17-2001, 07:42 AM
From what of know of Sifus methods i'll give it a go.

This all depends on how much you train. Our Sup Ying and Tit Sin (I.Wire) starts out with the same dragon form. For example, at the time I was first learning Ng Ying and Sup Ying the preliminary advice from Sifu was to do it no more than 3xs daily(Full power and focus). Until i built my self up. Then he said do about 9xs(sets) in a day max if i so desire. You know...morning, noon and night. More than that is not really needed. You build up gradually.

Keep in mind, Hung Gar and Tai Chi are my main thrust. I've only touched upon the Hsing Yi(Sun Lu Tang Version) and his Bagua thru the early stages. This is because you HAVE to, in order to understand SUN TAI CHI.

But from what I know, No it would not be dangerous for you to do San Ti on the same day. But make sure you have built up your internal slowly and steadily. More you practice, more you can handle.

I'm just curious as to how you hold your hands? If you're in a Left foot forward San Ti and your left hand is out...Where is your right hand?

1. under the elbow
2. pressing Downward
3. pressing backwards in an opposite direction at the navel.

Also what is the height of your middle/index finger of your left hand? Is your palm forward or fingers jutting forward?

Also your breathing: Are you using a pattern, mind focusing or just breathing normally?
Just saying breathing with the dan tien is not the same as actually achieving to SINK your energy to that area with focus.

A more external parallel for that described, would be like standing with your feet together and doing the Spliting Gold movement in Hung Gar. Just saying i'm sinking down with my forearms and actually doing it are two different things. If im off, someone can uproot me with two fingers pushing up alone. If i'm sinking properly...they need two hands to do the same job.

Lot's of people can sink energy w/ thier legs wide but to do it w/ your feet together is allot harder.

I asked the questions cause i'm just curious and because we all do things alittle differently.


07-17-2001, 09:13 AM
The way most people do san ti and hsing-i kind of rubs me the wrong way. I've seen some pictures of sun lu tang on a website a long time ago, talking about the postures and a bit of psuedo-philisophical mumbo jumbo. But there were a few points of contention I had:

There was no emphasis on training EACH of the postures as much or at least similar to the san ti.

We start with the wu chi posture (posture with chi), the classic chi building posture. Knee's out of lock, feet apart, heels together, toes pointing 90 degrees opposite each other.

Now look down and notice that we are forming the square an geometry. The X and Y axis (dont get me started on sacred geometry...)

I'll bypass any lengthy exegesis on this one and move to the next. The next posture goes from the wu chi posture. One foots heel is planted near the instep of the other, calf adheres to the tibia of the opposite leg.

Upper body is rotated to line up the nose with the angle of the foot you just moved. Hands as normal (fire finger touching some important point on the thigh).

HOLD this stance for some time. Say 5-10 minutes. This is important. Because you have now made one side "empty" and the other "full". This also draws and holds the waist in a static position, which traps the chi, and holds it there, storing it as a source of power when you use waist power/snapping.

This isnt as easy as it sounds. Hold this for say, 30 minutes and you'll agree. Its not just a transition, its freaking elementary. This introduces the idea of spirallying energy. As the twisting and static holding allows the energy to do something different than the wu chi (avoiding any technical details again....)

Next what I call the "monkey stance". Maintain the last posture but bend the knee's slightly. Bring the hands up (mucho variation here), one over the other. Important to line up the nei lao gong of one hand with the wei lao gong of the other hand.

And you should feel an interface of energy here. If not, find another internal teacher (just kidding [not really]).

The variation sun did looked like a crouching monkey, fingers slightly bent. But I've seen variations with the arms extended. Do both in my opinion. The last one is more important that san ti IMO because your training both hands at the same time. Plus, you have the energy interface of those two aformentioned points.

Also, the fingers are flat, not up like in most of the san ti postures you see. The energy is allowed to flow freely out like a hose.

When you straighten the arms, this gets REAL tough, 'specially from the crouching stance. Hold this one for 10 minutes and you'll find the san ti is a RELIEF.

Now what follows next is a step forward with the front leg, as far as your taught. And the lower hand is brought to the position you prefer or have been taught.

And boom your in the san ti posture. Hand is usually raised up, which helps to kink the energy a bit, causing a backpressure.

You could also use a one finger bridge hand at advanced levels but work up slowly.

I prefered to hold the lower hand facing the lower dan tien, lining up the chi projection of the lao gong with the lower dan tien. You should feel this lock in, if not. Back to basics... (not really, we dont want a lot of skilled people in the world do we?)

If you want to maximize your will and intention with internal energy, utilize finger staring. Stare at the index finger while doing the posture.
With finger staring, another "trick" is to alternate raising and lowering the front hand. But continue to stare where the finger used to be. You'll see an after image.

There is some esoteric and supersitious importance attached to the finger staring/move the hand exercise, but I wont go into that.

Note: When I say "you" I mean people in general.

That should give you enough for reference to play around with. Have fun. My foods getting cold.

Turiyan gold, Brahmin caste, Ordos clan
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07-17-2001, 11:08 AM
Thx for the info.

Sounds similar; Wu chi...Tai chi...(4 animals focus)...to San ti.

Do you do Sun Tai Chi as your main style?

1st two are pretty similar, albeit your focus is not the same exactly. (only natural for different schools)

(third one is key) Yes, but if you are reffering this posture as a monkey...and I meant to use the 4 animals term very loosly. You have NOT got this one right.
However, you are correct there is variation, I guess. I only know that my sifus knowledge is directly from Sun Jian Yun. Also, I have been corrected on these four postures personally by SJY herself. "It was an honor for me"
This posture envolves 4 animals of focus:
Chicken, Dragon, Tiger and Bear. However w/o the knowledge, specifics and the focus, this info means nothing. As a matter of fact I was just RE-Corrected on this subject 2 days ago. Mindblowing!

Lastly, San Ti. Well I like your way. Many things are possibe if you work the basics and the energies correctly.

In Sun's Xing Yi. There is no posture more important than San Ti. The basics derived from this stance transcends all. At beginner level, being able to resist pushing, pulling and rooting. Higher level is for those in the Sun school.

thx again, ease on.

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