Arm and Leg weights?!?!?! [Archive] - Kung Fu Magazine Forums

IronFist

02-20-2003, 03:29 PM

Originally posted by sapphire tygre
Ankle weights work allright for building basic size.

Uh... no, I don't think so.

Calf raises are effective for definition

Definition is not a function of specific exercises performed. In other words, you don't get "Definition" from performing particular exercises.

ATAC said:
Would it be helpful to go through forms and techniques, slowly, using arm and leg weights?!?!?!

It depends on your goals. The thing is that if you are adding weight and then performing techniques, the weight is kind of like increasing gravity; in other words, you have all this extra weight pulling down on you. So, say you throw a punch with more weight on your arm. This will stress the front deltoids more than an unweighted punch because the front deltoids are the muscle responsible for holding your arm out in front of you. If you think this will benefit your fighting then go ahead and do it. It's not equivalent to punching against more resistance, however.

The arm and leg weights I'm referring too are like weighted bands that you wrap around your wrists and ankles. Not sure what the proper name for them is.

There's a problem with doing punches and kicks with weight on your ankles and wrists, if you do them fast. If the weight is too great, it can damage your knees (kicks) and elbows (punches). The force of the weight will be increased by executing the punch with speed. Think of like a morning star with a heavy ball on the end of a chain... it generates so much more force at the end of the chain when you swing it... the weight is doing the same thing to your arms and legs. Make sense?

Also what benefits would this have if it was safe and recommended?

I wouldn't do it. There's other ways to develop explosiveness or whatever you are going for.

IronFist

ATAC

02-20-2003, 05:13 PM

Thanks Ironfist.

What are other exercises that would help increase explosiveness or speed for form work? I practice forms daily but was just wondering if there is more that I can do to improve!

Thanks again. :)

IronFist

02-20-2003, 06:26 PM

What are other exercises that would help increase explosiveness or speed for form work? I practice forms daily but was just wondering if there is more that I can do to improve!

Here are two. Due to the load placed on the body, don't try these until you can bench at least 150% of your bodyweight and squat at least 150% of your bodyweight.

Explosive pushups. Same as normal pushups, except when you're coming up, push up as hard as you can so that your hands come off the floor. These are like the "clapping pushups" that some people do, except don't clap. If you're clapping and you mistime it, you might land on the edge or your hand or something and that could cause injury. Just explode up and then land normally and go into another pushups. Do these in sets of 5 at the beginning of your workout. Only do a couple sets and give yourself a few minutes of rest after each one. Explosive training is only beneficial if you do it when you're completely fresh.

Explosive squats. Like regular Hindu squats, except after you go down, you come up and jump as high as you can. Make sure you're being even (same amount of weight on each leg). Same set and rep protocol as the pushups above. Do these when you're fresh.

That's pretty much it for explosive stuff. If your school has any other speed punching drills or anything incorporate those, too.

Good luck,

IronFist

IronFist

02-20-2003, 06:28 PM

Oh yeah, I don't think you're supposed to do explosive (plyometric) stuff very often. Like maybe twice a week or something. It doesn't always feel like it, but it's pretty demanding on the body.

IronFist

ATAC

02-20-2003, 09:59 PM

:cool:

Thanks for the advice, really appreciate it. :)

ricksitterly

02-21-2003, 08:54 AM

i remember there was a big thread about kicking with ankle weights strapped on a while back. It was mostly just sevenstar and myself discussing it. I dont remember what it was called though.

Anyways I've found that training with weights builds speed ... it doesnt really build muscle mass (from my experience). Also too much will cause irrepairable damage to your knees over time so I tend to cycle on and off of that type of training. I only do weighted kicks three times a week, for no more than 2 months. After all, once your body gets used to the weight, you will stop benefitting from the training. So the only choice u have is to either increase the weight strapped on your legs or to do more kicking reps (increasing the risk of injury in both cases).

But it is a nice boost in your training especially if you have a big tournament coming up or something. I train like that maybe once a year. It is preferrable to do the kicks on a heavy bag, as snapping the kicks out in the air (with no target) will cause a lot more stress on the knee and the retracting muscles/ tendons and all that good stuff when u go to stop your kick and pull the leg back. Also weighted kicking with no heavy bag to stop the momentum greatly increases the risk of hyper-extending the knee (or elbow, sometimes), which can happen even when there are no weights involved.

To get similar resistance training with your techniques, with less risk of injury, I would recommend a rip cord. Century is one company that makes them. You can make one yourself fairly easily. It's basically a long, elastic type (bungie) cord that you strap on the ankle or wrist (or whatever), and strap the other side to a stationary post (door knob, wooden beam, have partner hold it, etc.). Do your kicks and punches and it provides resistance through the whole motion but will not (as in weighted kicks) have a momentum that you have to stop with your retracting muscles and cause stress on the tendons/ligaments in the joint. Personally I get bored with that type of training as you have to stand in one spot the whole time, but it is effective. Maybe look up some info on it.

DuLayLoMo

02-21-2003, 09:28 AM

ATAC

"Would it be helpful to go through forms and techniques, slowly, using arm and leg weights?!?!?! "

Yes it would be helpful, but may i ask what is your goal in practicing wrist and ankle weights? Depending your goals, these tools may help but it may not. I do not know your goals so me just telling you things will not help.

"The arm and leg weights I'm referring too are like weighted bands that you wrap around your wrists and ankles. Not sure what the proper name for them is."

I got your picture and reading them clearly.

"Also what benefits would this have if it was safe and recommended?"

The benefits of this tool is generally geared toward those who have specific issues of strength and injuries. It is often used in physical therapy and sport rehab. It is rarely used as a strength and conditioing program of elite advance martial artists program unless they are going to an injury prevention or rehab program. Depending on your level of ability, strength, and/or injuries may increase localize joint strength and mobility and flexibility.

Is it safe? Well if you understand your purpose and goal using this tool and training correctly, it may be safe. The only possible dangers are joint instability, pulled muscles, and development of gross movement or poor biomotor skills. I wouldn't advise doing ballistic movements because you might increase liagment flexibility which is not wise because too much liagment flexibility means lack of joint stability. You liagments are fairly more flexible than your muscles, so increasing their flexibility might not be wise and the risk of them of being over stretch out weigh the benefits. Plus you might pull or over stretch some muscles like your psoas muscles or worst.

I hope this helps.

sapphire tygre

02-21-2003, 10:21 AM

Any kind of weight on your body will increase mass. If you're not totally sure about what your goal is then proceed with caution. Are you trying to get bigger? Lose weight? You need to know these things before using ankle weights. The only arm use with these is when I combined them with dumbells. The ankle weights increased stability a little, but... be careful.

abobo

02-21-2003, 03:26 PM

Originally posted by sapphire tygre
Any kind of weight on your body will increase mass.

I'll start, and somebody else can finish:

If that were true, then...

rubthebuddha

02-21-2003, 05:59 PM

... carrying that backpack back in high school should have made me as hyoooge as sevenstar?

sapphire tygre

02-21-2003, 07:49 PM

We're talking about different things here. And the backpack thing, that all depends on your diet, how much the backpack weighed... Anybody who hikes with aheavy pack knows it's going to increase their muscle size.

rubthebuddha

02-21-2003, 09:59 PM

apparently unknowingly, you just backed up what abobo was trying to get at.

sapphire tygre

02-21-2003, 10:05 PM

You're right. If He's wearing 1/2 pound ankle weights they may not increase size.:)

IronFist

02-22-2003, 01:28 AM

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

IronFist

IronFist

02-22-2003, 01:30 AM

Lifting weights makes you huge :rolleyes:

That's why we have 130lb Olympic lifters that can DL 500+lbs, right? They must not lift weights then cuz they're not huge.

:rolleyes:

IronFist

sapphire tygre

02-22-2003, 02:05 AM

Are you pretty big, ironfist?:)

SevenStar

02-22-2003, 07:51 AM

nah, Iron's a little guy. Puny ectomorph. :D

sapphire tygre

02-22-2003, 08:03 AM

Just kidding ironfist. I'm sure you're a manly man.:)

SevenStar

02-22-2003, 08:15 AM

Originally posted by sapphire tygre
Any kind of weight on your body will increase mass. If you're not totally sure about what your goal is then proceed with caution. Are you trying to get bigger? Lose weight? You need to know these things before using ankle weights. The only arm use with these is when I combined them with dumbells. The ankle weights increased stability a little, but... be careful.

What are you basing that on, man?

sapphire tygre

02-22-2003, 11:01 AM

EXPERIENCE. People have asked me for advice before, but they rarely take it. They dont have to. But I've got the results. What I've done has worked for me, so thats the advice I'm going to give. It says on your profile that you're a weightlifter, but you dont agree that weight on the body will increase mass? I contend that any weight over 10 pounds will increase mass. (muscle).

SevenStar

02-22-2003, 11:48 AM

http://www.geocities.com/kalistawarrior/sevenstar.jpg

10 lbs of weight can't do that.

Seriously, read a lot of the strength threads here and do some research elsewhere. lightweight will not build mass. check out the difference between strength and endurance training - there are several threads on it here.

SevenStar

02-22-2003, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by sapphire tygre
but you dont agree that weight on the body will increase mass? I contend that any weight over 10 pounds will increase mass. (muscle).

Also research the difference between strength and mass training.

sapphire tygre

02-22-2003, 12:05 PM

ATAC didn't specify his goals, so everyone just gave different advice. There was no right answer to his question. As to building mass without heavy weight it is possible, depending on food intake and number of reps. It's more time consuming too. In my case I get results with fairly "light" weights, I dont even bench. When I tried ankle weights they did build my legs a little, but I stopped using them because of the unatural strain on the lower back. It's hard to control form properly.

SevenStar

02-22-2003, 01:05 PM

you're right, there's no wrong answer, but there is wrong information...

Anyway, how many reps does it take to build mass with light weight?

sapphire tygre

02-22-2003, 01:19 PM

Light reps to failure, repeat. Granted you wont see size results as fast as heavy weight but you'll recover faster. BTW I do know the differences between endurance, strength, size. This kid didn't sound like he was doing four reps to failure anyway. Those ankle weights tend to be fairly light but.... Your right, I shoudn't have given him any advice, chances are he wont wear 'em for over 1/2 hour anyway. They get heavy fast

IronFist

02-22-2003, 01:19 PM

Me? I'm 5'9" 170lbs 8-9%bf. I'm bigger than Bruce Lee but smaller than Ronnie Coleman. I'd say I'm bigger than a large percentage of people here. Most likely stronger, too.

SevenStar is right, though, I am an ectomorph and my bf is always around this area whether I eat 2000 or 6000 calories a day. I've done both for extended periods of time so I know this is true. Once I was down to 7.3%bf. But I've had visible abs for the last 5 years or so.

But what's the point?

I could be 6'1", 130lbs, only be able to deadlift 50lbs, and that still wouldn't change the fact that I know what I'm talking about here.

Now, I ask you again: Have you read that biology book yet? It will teach you a lot more than any muscle mags or most weightlifting books.

Unless you like believing that high reps makes you toned, eating fat is bad for you, weights make you big, and abs are best worked in sets of high rep crunches. But then you have to divide that into upper abs and lower abs. Don't forget to work them both out or you might be left with just the top abs visible but not the lower ones. A lot of people have that cuz they don't work their lower abs hard enough :rolleyes: ;) :p

IronFist

IronFist

02-22-2003, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by sapphire tygre
Light reps to failure, repeat. Granted you wont see size results as fast as heavy weight but you'll recover faster.

Wrong!

Holy ****. Dude, go do some ****ing research. I don't even know where to begin with telling you how that's wrong...

IronFist

IronFist

02-22-2003, 01:25 PM

Yes I do. Go research some powerlifting peaking cycles. Heavy weights make you recover slower? Um, no. Heavy weights, implying low reps (because you can't do "heavy" weights for high reps) are often lifted 4 or 5 days a week for weeks before a powerlifting contest. Obviously they wouldn't do this if they didn't recover fast enough to lift again the next day.

IronFist

sapphire tygre

02-22-2003, 01:37 PM

Hey freak, you say you're 5'9 170, and an ectomorph, so what does that mean? That doesn't tell me how muscular you are. There are average people with those measurements. I had almost the identical profile some time ago, and achieved it with my methods. Now I'm heavier and I still work with light weights. It's like talking to a kid.

sapphire tygre

02-22-2003, 01:43 PM

Try arms monday, back teusday, legs wednesday, etc if you're talking heavy weights.

IronFist

02-22-2003, 01:56 PM

Originally posted by sapphire tygre
Hey freak, you say you're 5'9 170, and an ectomorph, so what does that mean? That doesn't tell me how muscular you are.

Does it hurt when you think? Do you know what an ectomorph is? I also listed my bodyfat % which should give you some idea of what I look like since you seem to care so much. I have a 31" waist. Does that help?

There are average people with those measurements.

No, 5'9" 170lbs at 8% bf is not average.

It's like talking to a kid.

What, like how you change the subject when I tell you you're wrong?

IronFist

sapphire tygre

02-22-2003, 02:01 PM

Ding Ding fight over. Now go buy some ankle weights.

SevenStar

02-22-2003, 02:13 PM

Originally posted by sapphire tygre
Light reps to failure, repeat. Granted you wont see size results as fast as heavy weight but you'll recover faster. BTW I do know the differences between endurance, strength, size. This kid didn't sound like he was doing four reps to failure anyway. Those ankle weights tend to be fairly light but.... Your right, I shoudn't have given him any advice, chances are he wont wear 'em for over 1/2 hour anyway. They get heavy fast

Light reps to failure to build mass??!??!

SevenStar

02-22-2003, 02:20 PM

Originally posted by sapphire tygre
Try arms monday, back teusday, legs wednesday, etc if you're talking heavy weights.

reading is fundamental, but you need to read the right stuff, which it's apparent you haven't.

The thing is, I dunno if you are really just that misinformed or if you're trolling. I'd wager to say trolling...

sapphire tygre

02-22-2003, 02:28 PM

So you're saying high reps to failure wont add size? It has mine.

IronFist

02-22-2003, 02:38 PM

What's your definition of high reps?

SevenStar, he is trolling, because he never backs up anything he says with anything. When I call him on it he either changes the subject or tries to be clever with something like "ding ding fight over."

IronFist

sapphire tygre

02-22-2003, 02:49 PM

Light weight. reps to failure, this could be 30, 50, 300, boring, yes, but you will gain mass. As I said not everybody is going to wait for results. There are advantages to this as opposed to very low reps, (injury, etc.) There. I've said it as clearly as can be. "light" will vary with the individual.

SevenStar

02-22-2003, 02:50 PM

yeah, I noticed that too.

abobo

02-22-2003, 02:57 PM

And at 16 posts a day, no less...

sapphire tygre

02-22-2003, 02:59 PM

Someone disagrees with you and you accuse them of "trolling". I can back up what I'm saying with personal experience. I've never lifted heavy and have gained quite a bit of muscle mass. That's backing it up.

IronFist

02-22-2003, 03:05 PM

Um, if you're gainin mass off of 30 reps then either:

a) You used to be really skinny and your definition of mass is not the same as mine

b) You're a complete genetic freak who can gain size off of 30+ reps

c) You're full of crap.

I've never lifted heavy and have gained quite a bit of muscle mass. That's backing it up.

Well, this is also not a valid argument because no one said you have to lift heavy (1-5RM) to gain mass. In fact, I said it's quite possible to lift heavy and NOT gain mass. This is often the objective of olympic or powerlifters who want to stay in a certain weight class.

Gaining muscle mass is 2 parts diet and 1 part lifting.

That's backing it up.

Admit that by citing only personal experience you could just as easily be lying.

IronFist

DuLayLoMo

02-22-2003, 05:20 PM

Sap:

I really think you are misinformed about your information and if you are telling us that you gained your results from your method, then I will give you the benefit of the doubt. But you must understand that many people including me think you are not an experience informed strength conditioning athlete. Pls take no offense and I am not attacking you personally.

I am too an ectomorph, 5'7 160 lbs, 8-10% bf, but I can deadlift 240lb, bench 210lb, and do chins with a 90lb weighted belt. I think I am not a huge dude, but I am stronger than I look I suspose? Lifting weights alone will not going to get you huge, Sap. You have to train correctly, sleep well, and be on a certain diet gears for hyperthropy. However, my max strength training has given me a harder and denser body fand if I take two weeks off for vacation, my muscles don't shink and disapear like most of muscles heads at the gym.

I hope you are better prepare to explain yourself like my experience has shown me...... Because that isn't good enough, and you should start off explaining your truths or ideas like that if you can't back it up with scienifitic research or knowledge.

IronFist

02-22-2003, 06:11 PM

sapphire tygre just got 0wN3d by a noob!!!

:D

Hey DuLayLoMo, I don't mean offence by calling you a "noob" (newbie). But with 6 posts you are one :)

I am too an ectomorph, 5'7 160 lbs, 8-10% bf, but I can deadlift 240lb, bench 210lb, and do chins with a 90lb weighted belt

Good work, dude. Have you ever tried one arm chins? I could do them (one rep on each side) at the end of last semester but I didn't keep it up and now I can't do it anymore. Around the same time I could do 2 or 3 reps of two handed chinups with 105lbs on a belt around my waist, for reference.

IronFist

SevenStar

02-22-2003, 06:40 PM

Originally posted by DuLayLoMo
Sap:

I really think you are misinformed about your information and if you are telling us that you gained your results from your method, then I will give you the benefit of the doubt. But you must understand that many people including me think you are not an experience informed strength conditioning athlete. Pls take no offense and I am not attacking you personally.

I am too an ectomorph, 5'7 160 lbs, 8-10% bf, but I can deadlift 240lb, bench 210lb, and do chins with a 90lb weighted belt. I think I am not a huge dude, but I am stronger than I look I suspose? Lifting weights alone will not going to get you huge, Sap. You have to train correctly, sleep well, and be on a certain diet gears for hyperthropy. However, my max strength training has given me a harder and denser body fand if I take two weeks off for vacation, my muscles don't shink and disapear like most of muscles heads at the gym.

I hope you are better prepare to explain yourself like my experience has shown me...... Because that isn't good enough, and you should start off explaining your truths or ideas like that if you can't back it up with scienifitic research or knowledge.

nice.

IronFist

02-22-2003, 07:53 PM

Originally posted by SevenStar

nice.

SevenStar, you punk, I say stuff like "0wn3d" and "n00b" and then you gotta go one up me by saying essentially the same thing in proper English. "nice." And that's even less letters and therefore required less effort to type. :D

Cheers!

IronFist

SevenStar

02-22-2003, 09:26 PM

okay, okay, how about this?

N1C3. :D

rubthebuddha

02-23-2003, 12:52 PM

ahhhh, skill with letters and numbers -- we ARE multitalented. :D

sapphire tygre

02-24-2003, 03:30 AM

Disrespect is easy over the internet.:) "and in this corner, representing the noble art of kung fu...." no wonder why wing chun gets schooled by I Chuan.

rubthebuddha

02-25-2003, 12:31 AM

aye. those WC guys don't know what the hell they are doing. :D

CD Lee

02-25-2003, 08:40 AM

Reading this thread reminds me...

How genetics can make communicating confusing when discussing 'what works' for building mass, strength, definition, etc. I used to be a young IronFist, now I am an older fatter dude, although never ripped like Iron. I watched for years and years, different guys doing heavy, medium, and light weights to gain bodybuilding style mass. 30+ reps, hey, even I never saw something like that, but maybe somebody is a genetic freak. :D

Yes I have seen some guys genetically gifted that could do Mike Mentzer style heavy training and gain lots of mass. I have seen guys that could do 16-20 reps and gain mass. I am convinced that some could do both and get similar results. I am not convinced that I, or other normal people can do both, and expect similar results.

There is within each person, an optimum combination of rest, nutrition, and excersice method, that will allow for optimal strength, or mass gain in lean weight. When a person is not genetically gifted, then the methods we choose become less obvious, because we do not see such massive results so quickly like some guys. This is why sports science is important. It gives an objective middle ground for people of varying degrees of talent and potential. The genetic freak tells me one thing, but it only works for him. He is utterly convinced, but subjectivity in this case could cause major problems for a normal person.

I don't speak as an expert here, but yes, I have done my share of training, reading, research, and plenty of observation. While there are no absolutes, there is that middle ground that we have to work within dolling out advice to newer, less trained individuals. That middle ground is at the very least, modern sports science and research. This is why IronFist freaks out over advice that is a little 'outside' the lines of actual research.

You know, it is like a person saying their '71 VW bettle can do 210mph for an hour on a NASCAR track. I guess it 'could' be possible, but you get the general idea.

DuLayLoMo

02-25-2003, 12:10 PM

Iron Fist:

Yes, I am nebbie. I didn't mean to be disrepectful to Sap, honestly. I just expressed what I thought in a nice and respectful way. I also agreed with CD's opinions that Sport, strength conditioningis still growing science and are rules to the exception and many variables and there is an ideal middle ground somewhere I suspose. But science is science, CD, and we ought to pay attention to its theories and application; as well as think outside its box when all things dont work.

Iron fist, I have tried single body weight prone chin and supinated pulls ups and can do 5-8 reps (10 reps, depending if I am fresh and not tired from previous arm workout). I adduct my knee and leg curl a stability ball between my legs and do the single chins or pulls, but I usually just cycle this kind of exercise or just want to be a show off when my ego tells me to do so.

Sap, please dont p i s s on wing chun. I have know many wing chun kats that sucked and many who are good. Please show some mo duk, some moral character if you really study chinese gung fu. Quoting or even telling people that this style is better than that style is quite frankly ignorant, sophmoric, and an example of the lack of mo duk understanding and development.

sapphire tygre

02-25-2003, 07:32 PM

Hey buddy, check out Ironfists pics of himself. My body type is different so I gave advice accordingly. As ATAC did not specify certain goals Its more a matter of opinion as to what he should do. Different excercises affect different people uniquely. As I am not an "ectomorph", my advice will differ from such.

SevenStar

02-25-2003, 10:07 PM

Originally posted by DuLayLoMo
Iron Fist:

Yes, I am nebbie. I didn't mean to be disrepectful to Sap, honestly. I just expressed what I thought in a nice and respectful way.

Trust me, we don't mind. :)

SevenStar

02-25-2003, 10:09 PM

Originally posted by sapphire tygre
Hey buddy, check out Ironfists pics of himself. My body type is different so I gave advice accordingly. As ATAC did not specify certain goals Its more a matter of opinion as to what he should do. Different excercises affect different people uniquely. As I am not an "ectomorph", my advice will differ from such.

could be. But as a general rule, when you're giving someone advice on gaining mass, low weight and high reps is a bad idea.

Serpent

02-25-2003, 10:45 PM

The only absolutes with gaining mass, as I know it, is lift heavy and eat big. The number of reps, the weight, the frequency of training, rest, etc. and any other factors are all subject to metabolism and bodytype.

Big muscles = Heavy weight + Heaps of food.

Any more than that is going to have to be personal experimentation. Therefore, if someone like 7* is giving you advice and you're a skinny dude, then 7*'s experience won't necessarily work for you. 7* gets big just walking past a Bally's.

IronFist's advice, on the other hand, might suit you better cos Iron is a hard gainer with considerable jealousy towards 7*. ;)

Both of them will give you great advice, but tailor it by what you know about the person giving the advice and the bottom line is only ever going to be your own experience from experimenting with any advice you're given.

Seven, Iron, sorry to single you guys out for that example, but you're both frequent posters and metabolically poles apart! :)

sapphire tygre

02-25-2003, 11:51 PM

DuLayLoMo..... If you read the thread from start to finish you'll see that I gave polite advice from my experience, and certain individuals coudn't seem to handle it. As for comparing fighting styles thats my humour. And lastly, gaining mass is relative to the individual, as is diet. All this on a thread about arm and leg weights.

Lowlynobody

02-25-2003, 11:54 PM

Getting back to the original question - I train my forms with steel rings on my arms. Its a traditional style of training speed and realxed power. When going through the techniques in the form with rings on you need to be as relaxed as possible. Do the moves like the rings are not there.

I have found that the rings build more of an "internal" type strength rather than size and target the muscle that you need in kung fu, esp the back. They also will help develop your stances as you need to be solid and well balanced else the weight will throw you off balance.

Lowlynobody.

SevenStar

02-26-2003, 01:10 AM

Originally posted by Serpent
The only absolutes with gaining mass, as I know it, is lift heavy and eat big. The number of reps, the weight, the frequency of training, rest, etc. and any other factors are all subject to metabolism and bodytype.

Big muscles = Heavy weight + Heaps of food.

Any more than that is going to have to be personal experimentation. Therefore, if someone like 7* is giving you advice and you're a skinny dude, then 7*'s experience won't necessarily work for you. 7* gets big just walking past a Bally's.

IronFist's advice, on the other hand, might suit you better cos Iron is a hard gainer with considerable jealousy towards 7*. ;)

Both of them will give you great advice, but tailor it by what you know about the person giving the advice and the bottom line is only ever going to be your own experience from experimenting with any advice you're given.

Seven, Iron, sorry to single you guys out for that example, but you're both frequent posters and metabolically poles apart! :)

I'm honored, bud ;)

SevenStar

02-26-2003, 01:12 AM

Originally posted by Lowlynobody
Getting back to the original question - I train my forms with steel rings on my arms. Its a traditional style of training speed and realxed power. When going through the techniques in the form with rings on you need to be as relaxed as possible. Do the moves like the rings are not there.

I have found that the rings build more of an "internal" type strength rather than size and target the muscle that you need in kung fu, esp the back. They also will help develop your stances as you need to be solid and well balanced else the weight will throw you off balance.

Lowlynobody.

Now, that's a great answer, and a spin in a new direction. Care to elaborate on that some? And, how is the back being more brought into it?

SevenStar

02-26-2003, 01:15 AM

Originally posted by sapphire tygre
DuLayLoMo..... If you read the thread from start to finish you'll see that I gave polite advice from my experience, and certain individuals coudn't seem to handle it. As for comparing fighting styles thats my humour. And lastly, gaining mass is relative to the individual, as is diet. All this on a thread about arm and leg weights.

It's not that we can't handle it. Clasically - and yes, It will work for you too, I have no doubt - the way to put on mass has nothing to do with what you stated. Consequently, that's just something we'll have to agree to disagree on...

Lowlynobody

02-26-2003, 03:25 AM

The back is being more brought into it because of the body posture hum hung bart boy which is a concave/swallow of the chest and stomach and rounding the back (not hunching) together with relaxed shoulders and tucking the tailbone - straightens the spine. You can sink into this posture when striking (depending on the technique) so the strike goes in and down into the person. The posture is much like that found in Bak Mei. Yau Kung Mun tends to have smaller/shorter rising and falling than Bak Mei. In YKM there is a lot of seizing and bridging so by training with rings and rollerbar (both done with relaxed strength) you can bridge on the outside and using the body and by keeping the elbows in sink over the bridge (chum ging) and strike the centreline (organs) - just an example.

As a side note the HHBB allows you a greater reach (extension through the shoulders) and at the same time the swallowing of the chest and stomach places your organs at a greater distance from the opponent. Its like the relaxed bunching a cat does before it strikes.

Another thing the rings do (besides condition the forearm) is they make a lot of noise and slide around on your arm. Ignoring this builds focus and intent.

The rings will not make you bulky. More like a relaxed/springy natural sort of muscle. They do build strength though and a lot of it.

Hope I didn't ramble too much :)

Lowlynobody.