chinese stick fighting?

[Black Jack]

A post a few down on stick fighting brought back a memory of seeing Poi Chan's book Fatal Flute and Stick forms.

When one thinks of single stick/impact weapon training to my mind I do not think of chinese gung fu, most people tend to think of the fma or jma systems, though kma, ima, wma and others the world over also work with cudgel's of all makes and sizes, but kung fu "seems" to lack deeply in this area as a focus group.

Which brings me to my questions. What aspects of the singlestick and by singlestick I tend to mean those sticks cane length and smaller down to koppo size, does your system work on, do you use forms, what training stroke drills and applications are its trademark, do you spar with sticks, that type of info.

I know that tai chi has a walking stick form, I have seen some chinese cane use in action at a demo, as well as knowing that their is a ton of staff info in that circle.

[carly]

styles, among others, specialize in the use of the whipstick (lian jian?), which is a kali-like stick of wood or metal. They have two man forms and drills and the whole nine yards.

[GLW]

I don't know if it is exactly true that the Chinese systems are lacking in this area.

There are methods for single and double short rods. They are mainly seen in southern styles but also in northern.

The Whip (Bian) is basically a short rod and is one of the old classical weapons.

Many of the techniques are similar to broadsword methods. For training, it was classically done where the broadsword was worked with a wooden sword to learn the how's of use. Due to this, many consider the short rod of lesser value or as being a stepping stone to the blade.

[count]

Hook cane has always been a personal favorite of mine. I learned a form like 25 years ago but I spent more time training two man against stick, knife etc. Training throws and locks and just tossing the thing around until it bacame a natural extension. But in bagua we have a lot of smaller weapons that can be exchanged for small sticks. The judges pen (not the piercers with the ring) is a classical bagua weapon that can be trained with the forms and two man etc. The focus is more on point striking or disarming techniques.

[joedoe]

Wu Chu Chuan has the 'dog' stick - used for fighting off wild dogs. It is about the same size as the sticks used by FMAs. There is at least one form and some contact drills. Not much sparring done with sticks, but occasionally someone gets the urge :)

We also have a shorter stick but I haven't learned much about that.

[carly]

posted some nice clips of two-man cane exercises here.

[Chang Style Novice]

Short pole, long pole, pairs of sticks, three section staff, for Pete's sake -

How much stick fighting do you need?:p

[neito]

my school does hardwood and waxwood longstaff, shortstaff, double stick(based upon double sword), and double stick kali. some students also learn three section staff and the hooked cane.

[Oso]

I have 3 single stick and 3 double stick forms from a mantis
system. The inference is that they are based on broadsword
sets. The single sticks are said to be different parts of a longer
set and there are 3 more I don't have that complete the set
of 6 (or 1). The double's are distinctly different from each other
and much longer than the singles so I feel they are individual
sets.

we deflect, hook/trap/pull, strike with the long side, poke with the
far end and gouge with the near end.


I also know a decent bit of arnis but I'm trying to focus on the
methods in the kung fu sets I know but it's dang hard as fma
stick methods are really very nice.

but, no, I don't believe cma is lacking in single or double stick
methods

[Oso]

a stick is a stick is a stick.

If you know long stick you know short stick.

It's a blunt, rigid weapon.







Ha-ha, He-he

I am Master Bater of the Blunt Rigid Weapon System.
Kow Tow before my magnificence !!!

[Kinjit]

Originally posted by Oso
a stick is a stick is a stick.

If you know long stick you know short stick.


Are you sure about that?

[Oso]

kinjit, yes, mostly.

the only variable is the length which creates different sized
circles/arcs and thereby different ranges.

obviously different styles/forms will have very specific uses for
the movements in their sets which prohibit thinking about using
the movement in any other way than passed down. :eek:

What I like to do is train the staff sets with progressively shorter
sticks 4', 2', 6" and take a look at what happens to the movement
and how it modifies the usual application and/or just plain
expiriment.

Not traditional but it gives you options. As stated already, a club
is probably the most basic of all weapons and by far the oldest.
Apes, monkeys, etc. will use them as tools and weapons.

[Chang Style Novice]

To give rolls his credit, throwing stuff is probably about as old as grabbing a club.

As to the issue of a stick is a stick is a stick...

Although I have no expertise at staff, pole, cudgel, shilellegh, baton, gun, bo, jo, cane, or any such like, it seems to me that once the stick reaches a certain length - more than half again as long as the arm, perhaps - you have the option of using both hands to hold it while still fighting effectively. This, I bet, is a critical difference in how the stick is wielded. Especially when the stick approaches the height of the one who wields it, and you get into gun/bo/quarterstaff territory, both ends of the stick become feasible for use in an attack or defense, because at semi-close ranges the grip may shift to the middle of the stick.

Of course, sticks with flexible joints uniting a number of sections becomes a whole nother animal - ie: 3-section pole, nunchaka, etc.

[Oso]

you can use a stick w/ two hands if it is long enough to grab w/
both hands and have at least one end sticking out or some bit
in the middle.

I have always classified 3 sectional and 2 sectional as flexible
and not rigid even though they have rigid bits.

this is all relative to my experience, yours may be different.