NY "Martial" Law

[Phil Redmond]

New York martial artists should read this.
http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A04415&sh=t

[reneritchie]

David Ross is doing a great job tackling this, and keeping folks updated. He may be posting still on the general Kung Fu board. This effects more than just New Yorkers, as such slopes can often be slippery (Ontario here in Canada has begun enforcing a law where no 'unsanctioned' tournaments can be run, and not every flavor of MA has a sanctioning body).

[Phil Redmond]

I was just about to post giving you credit for the info. You had a form letter that you recommened we use to send to those politicians. I didn't want to post it here because of the WCML rule against re-posting. It would be nice if you could post the details here that you posted on the list. Everyone should be in on this.
Phil

[kj]

Rene, I would very much appreciate any info you may have on a petition in progress.

Regards & TIA,
- Kathy Jo

[reneritchie]

Here's his thread on the general forum:

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=19617

Here's some stuff from other forums. He recently posted about one assemblyman who was opposed to the law. If I can find that post, I'll add it later:

(BTW - To everyone who thinks this won't effect them - it will. You're next. You're always next.)

http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A04415&sh=t
So it's official it seems, so we now MUST voice strongly our concerns before criteria is enacted that might shut down schools

---

I have a major suggestion
http://assembly.state.ny.us/comm/?sec=mem&id=20

This is the committee that is going to make up the criteria, you can follow the links to each of their pages and email them from there.

follow the link, so far it appears there are no specifics, the committee is going to come up with the requirements, write them to encourage them to come up with realistic, positive requirements like CPR training
Tell them that a law that has a list of "approved martial arts" could put honest people out of work

the best thing you can do is follow that link and write to them, CALMLY and rationally, explaining why there are too many martial arts for there to be specific regulations, and instead offer simple suggestions like CPR and first aid training

My guess, if they get flooded with letters with suggestions like CPR cert and saying there is no way you can fairly have an "approved list" that they may do exactly that, just leave simple requirements as the standard.

Hopefully they will realize they don't understand the details of the martial arts. BUT WE HAVE TO ACT NOW. If they pass the text, we are stuck with it.

If Chinese or Brazilian martial arts aren't on an approved list, we are both out of business :(

there are several NYC area people on teh committee, all of us should get people to call them
Deborah Glick
853 Broadway, Suite 2120
New York, NY 10003
212-674-5153

Richard Gottfried
242 West 27th Street
New York, NY 10001
212-807-7900

Nick Perry
942 Utica Avenue, Brooklyn, NY 11203
718-385-3336

Scott Stringer
230 West 72nd Street, Suite 2F
New York, NY 10023
212-873-6368

If you have students in their districts, even better as they will VOTE for them, or NOT as the case may be

call and email them, and if you aren't a NY'er I'd share my view anyway, they will feel how unpopular this is and maybe worry a little more

---

This is just my OPINION but something like
"To whom it may concern,
I am writing you concerning A04415, a law to create the licensing of martial arts schools. While anyone can understand a desire to have safe schools and regulations which will protect consumers, there is also a concern that the regulations may be a burden to small business and honest people just trying to make a living.

Things like requiring CPR certification or studying first aid would be great ideas. Things that concern us might be a list of "approved martial arts" that do not take into consideration the great number and diversity of martial arts that exist. A "combat sports" law passed by Albany in the past restricted legal martial art sporting competitions to a small list of organizations, disenfranchising thousands of New Yorkers who do other legitimate martial arts.

We hope that any law passed will be well thought out and researched and with the awareness that many honest hard working people run small schools, struggle to get by and are just trying to feed their families.

Thank you,
your name here"

Non NY'er can certainly write, it couldn't hurt (unless you curse them out!)

[kj]

Thank you, Phil and René.

I have begun sharing this information to those I know in New York State and elsewhere. I will send considered correspondence to our legislators before the weekend is out, and pray that many others will do likewise.

The course of this legislation should be of concern to martial artists in all styles - those who teach, coach or mentor, those who host teachers or masters residing elsewhere. It should also concern those interested in cultural preservation through the martial arts, and even anyone considering martial arts training in the future. And of course it should be of concern to everyone interested for the opportunity to learn.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[kungfu cowboy]

Why is the govt almost all filled with ex-high school nerd incontinent nincompoops? And what's with this "approved" list? That cannot be true. Based on what? Besides, at least half of those approved probably developed from those unapproved. CPR and good oral hygiene are good ideas though.

[YungChun]

Does anyone know the history of this? Is this constitutional? How bout it you lawyers out there!!!! Where did this come from and what are the real intentions? Very odd timing right now in as much as freedoms in the USA continue to be eroded.

There must be some way to loophole this beast. What about private schools, my old WCK school isn't even in the yellow pages. I can't see them going through all the schools in Chinatown with their checklists and clipboards.....

This sounds more and more like '1984' stuff...very scary. The arts may go underground once again.

[reneritchie]

Governments can require certification and licenses. Teachers need teaching certificates, pilots need licenses, etc.

The problem here is that they do not understand the diversity or cultural heritage of MA.

For example, what if the "Shaolin Karate Ninja" McDojo empire hold the chairmanship? How will they certify Escrima? WCK? BJJ?

[kungfu cowboy]

Man, I will never forget those halcyon days at the Shaolin Karate Ninja Empire School Dojo Inc.com.:(

[kj]

There are two separate legislative issues in NYS. I am not sure this is entirely clear from the earlier threads on the main forum.

I. The first is a bill (http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A04415&sh=t) ; text as follows:

THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK, REPRESENTED IN SENATE AND ASSEMBLY, DO ENACT AS FOLLOWS:

1 Section 1. The commissioner of education is hereby directed within six
2 months of the effective date of this act to require the licensure of
3 martial arts instructors and of any school, institution, organization,
4 business or other entity which offers martial arts instruction and to
5 promulgate rules and regulations necessary for such purpose.
6 S 2. This act shall take effect immediately

A few of the more obvious issues about this

a) It puts licensing forevermore in the hands of and at the whims of all future commissioners of education, (http://www.oms.nysed.gov/orgchart/) who have no necessary expertise in martial arts, or as René aptly pointed out, their cultural contexts.

b) Whatever the fees or licensing procedures, it will almost necessarily exclude many people who otherwise choose to share their knowledge. Here are examples of other licensed professions in NYS (http://www.op.nysed.gov/proflist.htm).

c) Unless special consideration is made by the commissioner of education or his board, there is no provision for martial artists or teachers coming into the state to teach, for workshops, etc.

It is only my speculation, but there could be provision made for one person to operate temporarily under the license of another, as is permitted with many of the other NYS licensed professions.

d) "or any other entity" effectively covers basement, garage, or even family practice groups if there is "teaching" involved. It doesn't matter if you're doing it as an act of generosity or for free.


II. The second legislative issue is a law (http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?ul=11). This was apparently instituted to restrict and govern boxing and UFC/NHB type of events, but is worded in such a way that broader interpretation is possible, and MA contests are distinctly affected. The portion most explicitly directed at martial arts is an ammendment (http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?ul=11&a=6) to that law.

Here is the MA explicit ammendment in its entirety for the curious but time constrained or lazy. Note the distinct omission of any organizations representing TCMAs, Filipino MAs, Brazillian, Russian, Israeli MAs, etc., thus rendering all of these as "combative sport" and illegal for matches or exhibitions:

Combative sports. 1. A "combative sport" shall mean any professional match or exhibition other than boxing, sparring, wrestling or martial arts wherein the contestants deliver, or are not forbidden by the applicable rules thereof from delivering kicks, punches or blows of any kind to the body of an opponent or opponents. For the purposes of this section, the term "martial arts" shall include any professional match or exhibition sanctioned by any of the following organizations:

U.S. Judo Association,
U.S. Judo, Inc.,
U.S. Judo Federation,
U.S. Tae Kwon Do Union,
North American Sport Karate Association,
U.S.A. Karate Foundation,
U.S. Karate, Inc.,
World Karate Association,
Professional Karate Association,
Karate International,
International Kenpo Association, or
World Wide Kenpo Association.

The commission is authorized to promulgate regulations which would establish a process to allow for the inclusion or removal of martial arts organizations from the above list. Such process shall include but not be limited to consideration of the following factors:
(a) is the organization`s primary purpose to provide instruction in self defense techniques;
(b) does the organization require the use of hand, feet and groin protection during any competition or bout; and
(c) does the organization have an established set of rules that require the immediate termination of any competition or bout when any participant has received severe punishment or is in danger of suffering serious physical injury.
2. No combative sport shall be conducted, held or given within the state of New York, and no licenses may be approved by the commission for such matches or exhibitions.
3. (a) A person who knowingly advances or profits from a combative sport activity shall be guilty of a class A misdemeanor, and shall be guilty of a class E felony if he or she has been convicted in the previous five years of violating this subdivision.
(b) A person advances a combative sport activity when, acting other than as a spectator, he or she engages in conduct which materially aids any combative sport. Such conduct includes but is not limited to conduct directed toward the creation, establishment or performance of a combative sport, toward the acquisition or maintenance of premises, paraphernalia, equipment or apparatus therefor, toward the solicitation or inducement of persons to attend or participate therein, toward the actual conduct of the performance thereof, toward the arrangement of any of its financial or promotional phases, or toward any other phase of a combative sport. One advances a combative sport activity when, having substantial proprietary or other authoritative control over premises being used with his or her knowledge for purposes of a combative sport activity, he or she permits such to occur or continue or makes no effort to prevent its occurrence or continuation.
(c) A person profits from a combative sport activity when he or she accepts or receives money or other property with intent to participate in the proceeds of a combative sport activity, or pursuant to an agreement or understanding with any person whereby he or she participates or is to participate in the proceeds of a combative sport activity.
(d) Any person who knowingly advances or profits from a combative sport activity shall also be subject to a civil penalty not to exceed for the first violation ten thousand dollars or twice the amount of gain derived therefrom whichever is greater, or for a subsequent violation twenty thousand dollars or twice the amount of gain derived therefrom whichever is greater. The attorney general is hereby empowered to commence judicial proceedings to recover such penalties and to obtain injunctive relief to enforce the provisions of this section.


Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[Grendel]

Wow. That's really restrictive. :rolleyes: Why do you folks in the smaller states elect such repressive types? :D :D :D Too near Canada for your own good, probably. :p

Regards,

[reneritchie]

Super mega thanks KJ. Hopefully everyone will see that and do their part. Rather than petty bickering on other threads, this is something that could potentially effect all of us.

People, do you part to help out with this! Imagine if your Sifu had to close his school? If your Sigung couldn't come to town for a seminar?

[reneritchie]

More from David Ross:

--
perhaps some light at the end of the tunnel?
From: "Joseph D. Morelle"
Subject: Re: Online Contact Form
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 16:18:11 -0500
Dear Mr. Ross:


Thank you for contacting me to express your opposition to Assembly Bill 4415, which would license martial arts instructors in New York State.

I have serious reservations with A.4415, and will keep your thoughts in mind during future discussions on this bill.

Once again, thank you for contacting me to share your thoughts. If I can be of any assistance to you in the future, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Warmest personal regards,

Joseph D. Morelle
Member of Assembly

We should all send thank you letters to this guy!


--
more information received today
A04415 was first introduced last year, where it "died" in higher education, it has been re-introduced this month, but according to the legislative assisstant of one of the representatives, it's re-introduction was to the dismay of many members of the committee on higher education who considered it a dead issue

So, it's on shaky ground, let's tip it like the proverbial cow :)
--
if you want to vent, send something to the sponsor, who introduced this legislation TWICE, the first time it failed miserably and yet he introduced it AGAIN
Robert A. Straniere

stranir@assembly.state.ny.us


DISTRICT OFFICE
182 Rose Avenue
Staten Island, NY 10306
718-667-0314


Anyone actually in his district?

--
after receiving a pile of hate mail, the sponsor of this bill added this to it's "memo"
" JUSTIFICATION: It has been brought to my attention there are no requirements for the licensing of martial arts instructors/schools, etc. Minimum education requirements must be established to protect students, many of whom are young children. Instructors who are not properly trained can cause serious injury when instructing students, many of which are young children."

So they are going to tell us if we are "properly trained" huh?

Send more letters, call them again, send more email

[yuanfen]

I hope that in contacting policy makers that we come accross as credible sensible folks.