Your Average fight

[red5angel]

I hear comments alot about how an average street fight goes. however it is becoming more apparent to me that there is no 'average street fight'.
On most of these forums for example you often get the ground fight vs striker fight argument, most fights go to the ground/don't go to the ground. I for one haven't seen many fights go to the ground, except where I work as a security guard but that is usually because they are pretty drunk and have a tendancy to fall down anyway.
However I don't doubt that many fights go to the ground. however, thinking about it, stories from freinds, fights witnessed, etc.. what about those, over the table fights, or the down the stairs fights? Or how about those, sitting in the car while my opponent is outside the car fights.

To be honest, I cant say with certainty that most fights go up or down or "behave" in any certain way! What do you guys and gals think?

[ShaolinTiger00]

What do you guys and gals think?

You don't plan to wreck your car everytime you go out, but you still wear your seatbelt.

Be prepared for the ground! :)

[red5angel]

Before this even gets started as a ground vs striking thread **** you ST!!! I want to say I am not condoning or putting forth that one way of fighting is better then any other. All I am saying is that there is a lot of argument about what the average fight is and I dont think there is an average fight.

[eulerfan]

There is only one thing that seems to remain constant in every fight I have ever seen or heard about. They all seem to last about ten/fifteen seconds. After that, others arrive and pull the two off of each other. So, most people I know fight with the intention of inflicting as much damage as possible before they are pulled away.

I've never known of anybody who got into a fight in an isolated area where this wouldn't happen. Might be different if that were the case.

[red5angel]

thats a good point too, what do you do? Do you go for the maximum amountof pain before the fight is broke up, OR do you try to hold the guy off until someone comes to break it up?

[joedoe]

What is the point of fighting if you are not going to inflict as much pain as you can ;)

Seriously though, I think it depends on if you are the aggressor or the defender. I guess legal questions also come into play here.

[red5angel]

well before we get too deep into that discussion I would like to discuss a little if people think there exist your 'average' fight....

[joedoe]

Short answer - no. There are typical elements to a fight.

[red5angel]

like?

[Golden Arms]

Short fight, maximum damage with minimal risk? One Answer for you, ELBOWS, preferably with your body weight behind them. If you train to use those, 99% of doctors agree that their patients did not enjoy being close to the well trained close quarters fighter. :D

[ZIM]

isn't the whole point of doing a martial art is to go beyond the 'average fight'?

i mean, on average, i get my butt handed to me...no matter where it goes... :rolleyes: :p

but really... if you like to fight on the ground, what, you just take it there! striking? well, golly Beav! same thing.

thats just controlling the fight... in *think* thats why i'm studying kung fu to begin with!

anybody think i'm making any sense here?? hunh?? can i get a witness!! /rant

[Laughing Cow]

There are no typical fights, but there are typical pre-fight scenarios.

Like posturing, calling names, poking your opponent, etc.

Most fights like eulerfan mentioned are short-lived and often very brutal.

[joedoe]

Originally posted by red5angel
like?

The typical elements of a fight will depend on the situation. A bar/school/street fight will be different to a mugging/ambush.

However there are typical stages that a confrontation is going to go through like posturing, contact etc. No two fights are going to be the same, so how can you classify a fight as typical?

[Surferdude]

I've never been to the ground either but i have only been in like 3 fights so far............:D ;) :p
Stay out of trouble!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad: :D

[Waidan]

I don't think anyone could strictly define all the elements of a typical fight, but fights can be broadly catagorized with some success.

Someone here posted an article some time back. It had to do with the "monkey dance" vs. the "preditor/prey" scenarios.

The vast majority of fights I've witnessed or been party to have been of the monkey dance variety. That is, lots of posturing, name calling, and arm waving, followed by shoving, and ultimately the haymaker exchange. While entertaining, these fights tend to be broken up either immediately or right after a clear winner has been established. I can't imagine more than a fraction of a percentage turn deadly.

Preditor/prey scenarios are the potentially lethal, "never saw him coming" events that should be the focus of every "self defense" class (in regards to situational awareness, avoidance, escape). These very often involve a weapon or multiple combatants.

[TigerJaw]

Originally posted by Waidan
I
The vast majority of fights I've witnessed or been party to have been of the monkey dance variety. That is, lots of posturing, name calling, and arm waving, followed by shoving, and ultimately the haymaker exchange. While entertaining, these fights tend to be broken up either immediately or right after a clear winner has been established. I can't imagine more than a fraction of a percentage turn deadly.



That's interesting. I read an article in the Guardian newspaper about some research done by psychologists at some university here in Britain. They studdied the behaviour of young men in bars and clubs and how fights started. They found that men tended to form groups of four or six as a balance between protection in numbers (not just from violence but also from not having anybody to talk to) and competition for women. WRT fights, they found that the most common cause was the practice of sizing up other men. There was a lot of psychobabble about this having routes in animal behaviour but they did not that the most common first line of a verbal exchange was....

'What are you looking at?'

So even if you can't catagorize fights, you can say that sizing people up in a crowded place where alcohol is served is a good way to get into a fight.

[ShaolinTiger00]

**** you ST!!!

a sign that I've made a good post. and I'll say it again be prepared because you don't know what will happen.

*buckles up*

[morbicid]

hmm good point eulerfan

although -
those typical fights where people actually intervene and "pull the fighters off each other in a matter of moments" usually only happen in a bar or some other public, indoors setting. if the fighters are not out with their friends, and there's no bouncer or security, then fights tend to go on without intervention.

fights that ive witnessed, and had myself, that were in "the street", usually do not get broken up unless by the cops- and it has to be a pretty long fight for the cops to actually arrive in time lol
or of coarse, on occasion, they might just happen to be driving by (like on their way to dunkin doughnuts)
usually on the street - meaning a street fight not a mugging - the object is to cause as much damage as possible and then run before authorities arrive and witnesses snitch on u.

i remember one time i was walking around town on a friday night and i saw this one large guy (about 230 lbs), fighting two medium sized teenagers. it was pretty bloody and the big guy was bleeding from his face - everyone just watched like "woah a fight". once they realized a crowd was forming the two teens ran off.

[red5angel]

joedoe, I ask because there have been a few threads where people use the "typical fight" argument and I got to thinking about what that really means.

[HuangKaiVun]

Of the several real life mugging encounters my students have fought so far, not once have the opponents gone to the ground.

That isn't a question of whether they "wanted to" or not, it was an issue of the opponent being subdued or neutralized from the student's standing position.

[Waidan]

I had no idea Chandler was such a rough and tumble city. :)

[morbicid]

i tried taking a fight to ground once in college - and one of the kid's friends kicked me in the face while i was holding the kid in a head lock on the ground. so i decided to get back up and after that the fight stayed pretty much on the feet

[fa_jing]

Well this is waaay back , but the last real fight I was in was when I was 15 years old and was jumped along with two others, watiing for the bus, by about 20 kids. There were some more involved than others. Anyway both my friends went down, they started to kick the first. By the time they got to me I was fighting back, holding my own until someone jumped on my back from behind. This allowed the other two guys to get up and get away. I started to duck and run too at this point, sustained some damage but every hit was behind my ears, none in front.

[Losttrak]

I had no idea Chandler was such a rough and tumble city.


I have learned that the wealthiness of a region have little to do with the quantity of violence in the area. I lived in Irving, Texas (middle class + in most areas) and we had many gangs, shootings, stabbings, etc. In highschool, I knew a guy who had the FBI yank him from his bed for counterfeiting, a pair who killed 7 peeps in a Taco Bell including a pregnant women (shot in the belly to kill 2 "birds" with one "stone"...), and I stopped going to malls after I ran into an average of 2 gang fights per weekend when I just wanted to go play some video games. Granted there is a better chance of someone ganking your arse in certain low-income areas but that doesnt exclude more affluent regions.

[Waidan]

Well, I was being fecicious really. My gf's parents live in Chandler, and their area is about as quiet as a cemetary. The thought of being mugged there made me chuckle a bit.

[HuangKaiVun]

When a person gets ambushed by a stranger waiting behind a dumpster, chuckling is not on anybody's mind.

Or when 2 guys start following you in a parking lot (which was the case for my assistant sifu - a woman), it's not a laughing matter.

Even the quietest area can be a fertile ground for criminals to wreak havoc. People get kidnapped all the time around the East Valley, which is why local newspapers run articles on why kids should be learning stranger awareness and things like that.

Chandler has its nice areas, but it's got its rough ones too. Just ask my students, some of whom face this type of thing day in and day out.

And even so, groundfighting has not been an issue yet. That's not to say that my students don't train groundfighting - we do just in case that happens.

[Waidan]

Take it easy, no one is saying assaults are a laughing matter. Chandler, as I know it, is largely a very slow-paced retirement community. Maybe there's a seedy side I'm unaware of.

[HuangKaiVun]

The seedy side IS there.

That's what I've been trying to tell you. Take it from a guy who actually lives and teaches there!

So far, I find nothing "slow-paced" about Chandler. But there are a lot of retired folks around, of course.

[Losttrak]

Even the quietest area can be a fertile ground for criminals to wreak havoc.


True. Some associates of mine used to comb the church parking lot to steal cars/valuables since many people (my cautious parents included) feel that they can leave their cars unlocked since its a religious establishment. I just had to make sure they knew which car was ours lol.