MMA vs. TMA - vent!!!!

[nightwing_38116]

I frequent other boards (I'm sure that some of you know of the prominent MMA board). I am amazed by how ignorant and close minded some of their posters are as it relates to traditional martial arts. First, their preconceptions of martial arts are based off of Kung Fu movies. They droll over Muay Thai and BBJ, which is fine. But are they too stupid to realize that MMA is a sport and is not the King of all MA?

I'm a fan of the UFC as a sport. But if I want to learn about streetfighting and such, I'd give cops and convicts the advantage over most MMA guys. I really feel that people that ignorant about the martial arts don't train at all or if they do they have an idiot for an instructor. No instructor worth a crap would condone the outright disrespect of any MA. Now we're beginning to see BBJ McDojo's pop up and soon some "new" martial art will emerge and these same fools will jump on that bandwagon.


Thanks for letting me vent.

www.gorchor.us

[red5angel]

hehe, hmmm it's 50/50 whether this thread gets dropped immediately or goes on for way longe rthen it should. I think I am going to need a 6 pack for this......

[ewallace]

I frequent other boards (I'm sure that some of you know of the prominent TMA board). I am amazed by how ignorant and close minded some of their posters are as it relates to traditional martial arts. First, their preconceptions of martial arts are based off of UFC tapes. They droll over Wing Chun and Tai Chi, which is fine. But are they too stupid to realize that TMA is an art and is not the King of all fighting?

I'm a fan of the TMA as an art. But if I want to learn about streetfighting and such, I'd give cops and convicts the advantage over most TMA guys. I really feel that people that ignorant about the martial arts don't train at all or if they do they have an idiot for an instructor. No instructor worth a crap would condone the outright disrespect of any MA. Now we're beginning to see Tai Chi McDojo's pop up and soon some "new" martial art will emerge and these same fools will jump on that bandwagon.

It goes both ways bro.

[nightwing_38116]

LOL, It's not my intention to stir up anything. I just want to share my frustrations. I apologize.

[KC Elbows]

I think the war is entirely about oil. Or it's not about oil at all. Whichever sounds sillier at the time, really.

[nightwing_38116]

True. I mean I am a HUGE fan of MMA and respect all MMA fighters, but for people to say Kung Fu (or traditional styles in general) is useless really rubs me the wrong way. The thing that get me is that they never have any reason as to why they feel that way.

[carly]

Which TMA board do yoy refer to?

[red5angel]

I knew this thread was going ot be funny as hell.

Sorry nightwing you feel into one of the oldest and probably tiredest arguments on this board and I am sure a few others. If you flip through some of the older threads, most like titled, you will find the answers you seek.

[KC Elbows]

Don't group up on me now. One at a time or I'll no touch KO your sorry ass.

[red5angel]

besides, everyone kows that Kung fu guys can't fight really, oh they look good in forms competitions and with non-resisting opponents but you get them on the ground and they pretty much do the croppy flop.

























How was that? ;) on a troll scale of 1-10?

[KC Elbows]

I didn't like it until that 'croppy flop' bit. Good job on closing with the best. I'd say 7 1/2, only because you're having to work in a field that's so well covered.

[red5angel]

7 1/2!! thats way better then I thought! I would have spotted me from a mile away!!!! ;)

no but seriously, we all know Kung fu guys are weak, hobby types who are in it more for spirituality and character building then fighting. NO ONE takes KF for fighting....

[KC Elbows]

And of course, mixed martial artists are just a quality lubricant away from being Elton John.

[red5angel]

OH YEAH!!! Well what would you do if I SPRAAAAAAAWLED!!!!!


I guess the lubricant comment answers that....

[Waidan]

This thread is a ray of sunshine. Informative and original.

FYI, 99% of disparaging, generalized remarks about various modern and traditional arts are made out of a lack of experience with said art. Okay, it's more like 89%, but you get my point.

[SevenStar]

Pot, I'd like to introduce you to the kettle...



I am a Kung Fu guy (green belt in Nan Shaolin Ngor Chor) and am that first to say that I respect the Gracies for what they've done for martial arts as a whole. They have created a good business model for other schools to follow and have forced many to add the groundfighting dimension to their game and making them better fighters all the way around. In a real self defense situation am I going to roll around in a parking lot with a guy for a barlock, no, not if I can avoid it. The thought of rolling over gravel, glass, and possibly syringes doesn't do much for me. If BJJ and the Gracies are not your cup of tea, fine. That doesn't mean that you can't take something from it and improve your own techniques and skills.


Sound familiar?

[Oso]

I got your 'croppy flop' right here, buddy.






croppy flop-what the hell is that?


sorry, but I'd have to score you less due to just downright
boring use of the american language.


or is 'croppy' a northern widwest way of saying 'crappy' which
is a type of fish here in the south only slightly bigger than a
bluegill and only slightly less exciting to catch.

In which case, it makes sense !! :D

[ZIM]

I can't say I care one whit whether BJJ and the Gracie stuff is 'superior' or not to my current needs [note how i'm putting that!].

i'm aware- to a degree- what they do, have looked at their techniques and find them interesting, sure. i'm looking at the essentials of what i'd need to counter them within their range [sprawls, etc.] but it isn't my style, so i'm comfortable as of now to allow them theirs if they allow me mine.... i'm just doing something else, is all..

what burns my particular biscuit is not this, but the insistence that what i'm doing is wrong, the constant berating.. which is similar to the usual berating one gets from ppl who don't respect the arts in general ["oh, you study kung fu? what are you, some kind of movie star- hong kong fooey dude? hahaha" then they come at you with a 'hiiiyaaaa' karotty chop].

After that, i think the faux-macho culture of BJJ has affected KF in a negative way... don't get me wrong, many of them are tough guys, they just train for different skill sets and -true to their style- force others to go along with their POV. I say don't. KF offers additional things beyond 'oh yeah? Lets roll!' [note the word: additional- i think BJJ doesn't offer anything beyond this]

[Former castleva]

Lol just let the dog have it´s bone and walk away unharmed. :)
Nightwing,there has been a LOT of arguing about this in the past,I understand your concern of course.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by ZIM
I can't say I care one whit whether BJJ and the Gracie stuff is 'superior' or not to my current needs [note how i'm putting that!].

i'm aware- to a degree- what they do, have looked at their techniques and find them interesting, sure. i'm looking at the essentials of what i'd need to counter them within their range [sprawls, etc.] but it isn't my style, so i'm comfortable as of now to allow them theirs if they allow me mine.... i'm just doing something else, is all..

what burns my particular biscuit is not this, but the insistence that what i'm doing is wrong, the constant berating.. which is similar to the usual berating one gets from ppl who don't respect the arts in general ["oh, you study kung fu? what are you, some kind of movie star- hong kong fooey dude? hahaha" then they come at you with a 'hiiiyaaaa' karotty chop].

I don't think any of the grapplers on this forum would tell you that you're wrong. What they would say is that since you know your style doesn't deal with countering their tactics, then cross train in a style that does. When a few strikers started beating bjj guys, what happened? They said "Oh snap, I wasn't ready for that - I should work with some strikers so that I can lear to strike and lear how to deal with those strikes) MMA is I guess what you can call an evolutionary style. They won't say "My style doesn't deal with this" They say, "I'll make my style deal with this"


After that, i think the faux-macho culture of BJJ has affected KF in a negative way... don't get me wrong, many of them are tough guys, they just train for different skill sets and -true to their style- force others to go along with their POV. I say don't. KF offers additional things beyond 'oh yeah? Lets roll!' [note the word: additional- i think BJJ doesn't offer anything beyond this]

I've seen a bigger problem with arrogant traditional guys. I've heard things like "To counter, I would just easily do technique X" and "Boxers have no real skill, they just stand there and slug each other"

As for the note - many bjj schools do offer Judo, so yeah, they can say more than "Let's roll"

[Oso]

I think what we need is some holy water, vials of oil and a good cleric.

[Ben Gash]

Whatever.

[KC Elbows]

Originally posted by Waidan
FYI, 99% of disparaging, generalized remarks about various modern and traditional arts are made out of a lack of experience with said art. Okay, it's more like 89%, but you get my point.

So what, that means 72% of fights go to the ground? And could you cite your source?:D

And I read croppy to mean the fish, which was why he scored so high: it was the first use of croppy flop in a martial arts related topic. It is clearly a stepping stone in the MMA vs. TMA debate. Now this can finally be solved.

And Red5, TMA already had the sprawl, it's in all the forms. You just sort of loom there hovering over the ground, that you did not already know that just shows how little you know about the topic, it's very high level stuff. I believe it's called "Drunken crane spits on Lord Gravity".

[Oso]

Ben Gash, not a gamer are you?





KC, well, in red5's defense he has been studying wing chun;)

[SevenStar]

Crappie are okay - I'd rather have bass and salmon are way better.

[Ben Gash]

I've been on this board since 1999. I've had this discussion umpteen times. The MMA guys never listen. I just wait outside and do them over in the car park.

[SevenStar]

Coho Salmon is superior

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Ben Gash
I've been on this board since 1999. I've had this discussion umpteen times. The MMA guys never listen. I just wait outside and do them over in the car park.

Near a pond?

[Liokault]

The only MMA forum I go to SFUK spends a lot of time running BJJ down, as well as boxing and TCMA.

The only thing that they like is western wrestling for ground work and Thai boxing for stand up.

They also dont think you can do anything if u can not fight on the ground. Funny thing is that when a thread started about multi attackers every one agreed with no doubt that the ground was the last place u want to be even for a short length of time.

[Oso]

Largemouth or Striper filet recipe:

1 beaten egg for dipping

Idaho potato flakes

flour

cornmeal

spices to flavor (Mrs. Dash works very well)
or just salt and pepper

mix flakes/flour/cornmeal/spices

heat oil in fry pan, cast iron preferably
the lighter the oil the better, canola or sunflower oil is good

dip filets in egg then dry mix

drop in oil, fry till brown, flip, repeat

[Former castleva]

Here´s an original idea for determining the art´s effectiveness:
Since generalisations based on certain art´s effectiveness,which are at times based on bizarre claims like "99% go..." that are promoted by charlatans to get their way and definitions of effectiveness are based on recorded competition events,here´s the plan.
We need to insert microchips (or related device) into art X practitioners and follow their moves.
If a lot of practitioners of art X who get into encounters do well,art X will be considered souperior ;) over art X2 which does not either have brawl statistics to prove it´s effectiveness or various players of art X2 have failed to stand their ground in encounters (compare to others)
We might want to do this for a few years,then we might consider publishing the results of this research.

[Former castleva]

Somebody wish to join me in my shattering,scientifical research?

[Oso]

no






























:D

[Former castleva]

:mad: :mad:

:D

We won´t find out then.

[ZIM]

What, like alien bu tt-probes? Thats crazy! Just use the spy planes to track 'em! LOL

[Oso]

FC gets the first one.:p

[Former castleva]

I see.

Spyplanes is not too bad either.

We are already poking holes into this myth of modern.

[Oso]

if yer talking anal probes the hole's there already.

[Ben Gash]

7* sorry, parking lot (I hate american English)

[Ben Gash]

That's the dialect, not the Idlewild song which is OK.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Ben Gash
7* sorry, parking lot (I hate american English)

LOL, I wasn't talking that, but yeah it can suck. The pond thing was a reference to ralek who want to fight challenge matches by the pond in a local park. When I originally read that, I missed the word 'car' somehow. So I read, "The MMA guys never listen. I just wait outside and do them over in the park."