View Full Version : Info on HaiDeng Fashi
Hi,
well mostly heming or any chinese person could help on this one. DOes anybody have info story, information, or pages and sites they could give me regarding the HaiDeng Fashi Shaolin Wushu Temple.
Thank you
Peace!
*To conquer others, you must first conquer yourself*
What, your gonna tell em noone knows about the temple??
come on friends, shoot your knowledge ;)
Peace!
*To conquer others, you must first conquer yourself*
so rei,
i heard u wanna get info on this temple..
Yes, yes i do!
well ask the pople on the kungfuonline board!
oh, ya what an idea! man i couldnt of thought of it myself!
ya i know... ur such a goof
oh wait! :eek: we ARE on the board!!!
come on poeple jesus chrsit ONE OF YOU has to know bout the heidang fashi shaolin wushu temple in here!
Peace!
*To conquer others, you must first conquer yourself*
Wasn't Hai Deng that old monk guy that could do the 1 finger balance? I didn't know he had his own temple.
well i dunno if its a monk or not but i DO know its a temple cause i asked my wushu teacher and he told me thats where he goes when hes in china
and DUDE THAT ONE FINGER STAND! hehe sweet stuff
Peace!
*To conquer others, you must first conquer yourself*
beiquan
03-23-2001, 12:14 AM
Hai Deng Fa Shi means "Buddhist Teacher Hai Deng" and is the name of the late(i think) abbot of the Shaolin Temple, there is a documentary on him by Tai Seng video called "Abbot Hai Teng of Shaolin".
Paul Skrypichayko
04-17-2001, 08:25 PM
Hai Deng is his Buddhist name, and fa shi is his title.
I didn't know your master went to China. Are you talking about Shergold?
hehe no not Shergold... Yannick Benoit! Good wushu teacher :D
Btw Tell nick ren said hi ;)
nice to hear form u again!
Peace!
*To conquer others, you must first conquer yourself*
Paul Skrypichayko
04-23-2001, 08:20 AM
I think I've seen your Quebecois Master's website before.
Apparently Hai Deng only had 3 close students. Fang Yin Lin and Li Xing You, and a third one who just specialized in qigong.
What exactly do you know about this school?
I know that Hai Deng was at Ermei and Shaolin temples before the Communist Revolution, and that he returned to Shaolin in the 1980's, but I was also told that he was posted to many other temples, and had his own personal one. I'm not sure of the name, location, or any other details. Maybe it has turned into a "tiyu" temple like modern Shaolin
[This message was edited by Paul Skrypichayko on 04-23-01 at 11:25 PM.]
No i dont know anyting bout Hei Dang or where his temple is but by the request of some people i will email Yannick right now asking him if he can give me information about this.
Peace!
*To conquer others, you must first conquer yourself*
ok, the hei dan temple is sutiated in the AnHui regions and theres no mountains around there... but that is all i got :D
Peace!
*To conquer others, you must first conquer yourself*
IronFist
08-05-2006, 10:40 AM
Something doesn't look right about this vid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xaO-kHZvHo&mode=related&search=). The way it just cuts to him doing it (against a wall). I mean I'm kinda skeptical, but something is fishy about this, yeah? Something doesn't look right.
The Xia
08-05-2006, 10:45 AM
Why is it that these kinds of videos it often say something along the lines of "This guy is the only one in the world who can do this."? :rolleyes:
jethro
08-05-2006, 01:50 PM
yeah, that was not that good of a cutting job when they cut to him doing the fingerstand. I found this clip on the same page much more enjoyable:D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6f0tFPMfLE&NR
EarthDragon
08-06-2006, 11:38 AM
in my years I ran across and studied under a man named ting fong wong from canton china. He had incredible strength. He could drill his finger up to eh first knucle into a brick and bent a parking sign out in front of the kwoon one day from a horse stance.
His finger strength excersizes consisted of many things such as fingertip push ups, clawing and hand stands against a wall using the finger tips. In forty years he could do them using his 2 index fingers.
He was told that there was a master in hong kong who could use only one but was very very skeptical.
The difference was he would do a hand stand, then go up the finger tips then onto a tripod with the thumb, index and middle fingers then eventually onto just the index.
So what is missing in the video that makes it a FAKE is that it doesnt show the process on how he got to the single digit stance. I saw a vidoe of a guy sitting on his morotcylce on the ceiling. well you could figure out that the room and furniture was nailed upside down and the camera was up side down. This could be the same thing but its definaly a trick or he would be proud to show off this incredible skill frame by frame.
Royal Dragon
08-06-2006, 01:50 PM
Who cares how he got there, the very fact that he CAN hold with only one finger it is pretty impressive
David Jamieson
08-06-2006, 02:11 PM
It's been said that this video was faked.
I think Hai deng did have this skill though.
EarthDragon
08-07-2006, 06:17 AM
Royal D you missed the point. He cannot be credited with holding the pose if he cannot prove how he got there.
His legs could be crossed becuse he is hiding the hook that is holding him up..
David Jamieson
08-07-2006, 07:50 AM
I have a photo of Hai Deng in his younger days doing the 2 finger version of same.
He had teh skill. But I think that for the purpose of the movie as shown in the clip, it was faked for whatever reason. asthetics? I have no idea.
Ming Yue
08-08-2006, 11:35 AM
dunno... the guy's index joints sure look like they've been under a lot of pressure a lot of times.
He was leaning pretty heavy against the wall, which shaves a little weight off, but it sure looks like think he was bearing the remainder of his weight on that finger.
IronFist
08-09-2006, 12:07 AM
Seriously, I mean I couldn't do what he was doing, even if I had assistance getting into that position, but I still say the vid is fake.
5Animals1Path
08-09-2006, 05:01 AM
There's supposed to be more video out there somewhere of the same guy puncturing a sandbag with that finger, but I've yet to find it.
David Jamieson
08-09-2006, 06:11 AM
There's an entire feature length film aout Hai Deng.
It shows him doing a lot of things.
He was one of the first of the former shaolin monks to return to the temple following the Cultuiral Revolution.
I really don't doubt he had mastery in a chamber or two of shaolin kung fu. One finger Ch'an being one of thoise things, but he was also supposed to have very good iron body and could withstand pretty good strikes into his autumn years.
anyway, an interesting person in teh grand scheme of kungfu from shaolin.
B-Rad
08-09-2006, 03:48 PM
But I think that for the purpose of the movie as shown in the clip, it was faked for whatever reason.
Age? When you see him walking around, or doing a form, it's pretty obvious he wasn't in the best physical condition anymore.
Anyway, from what I've been told, Hai Deng was a great master in China who was forced to be kind of the new Shaolin Temple's honorary abbot (to lend the new lineage more credibility. He was supposedly from Emei shan and is a graduate of Chengdu university. Heard a few variations of the story... that he was never a monk, or he was a monk and/or abbot of a monastary in Emei for a time, and was a master of an Emei-Shaolin system.
BoulderDawg
08-09-2006, 03:59 PM
No doubt...Fake all the way.
As has been mentioned, the give away is that they do not show how he got there.:D
unkokusai
08-09-2006, 06:03 PM
So many fakes of this kind of thing. I don't believe any picture, video, watercolor painting, or story about such nonsense.
Do it right in front of me and I'll buy you a beer, but no "I knew this guy once" story will ever even remotely sell me on that fish tale.
GeneChing
08-10-2006, 10:26 AM
We discussed Haideng and his documentary a little on a thread in our Shaolin forum (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36328). I've seen two-finger handstands in person up close. There's some footage of such handstands on our Extreme Kung Fu Qigong (http://www.martialartsmart.net/tc-ca105.html). We also offer a training DVD in this technique, see Fingertip Handstands: The One-Finger Zen Training Method (http://www.martialartsmart.net/dvdat103.html). It's acheivable for some, but not everyone.
There's a very interesting article by Zhu Tianxi in vol.2 no.4 of Chinese Traditional Kung Fu, where Zhu disses Haideng. He says his master, Shi Degen, kicked Haideng out of Shaolin for being a 'bilker'. Haideng was very controversial, that's for sure. I've met Zhu (aka Xingzhen). He's quite skillful. His team performed in our Shaolin Kung Fu 2000 (http://www.martialartsmart.net/vidshaolkun2.html) video and there's a bonus track of him demonstrating some techniques. I did an article on him and his team back in our July 2000 (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=119) issue - the SEX issue: When Mountains Meet-San Francisco Hosts Shaolin Kungfu 2000
I'm moving this from the main forum to the Shaolin forum because I think it might get more discussion there, especially about Haideng.
The Xia
08-10-2006, 10:36 AM
It's acheivable for some, but not everyone.
Why is it only achievable for some?
B-Rad
08-10-2006, 11:16 AM
I've seen the two finger on one hand handstand, and two hand/one finger each handstands in person. Also seen someone almost get the one finger handstand, but not quite. It's allways done with a wall, or someone holding a board or string for balance just in case someone thinks it's supposed to be done with no support at all ;) At least that's how I've allways seen it done, lol.
jethro
08-10-2006, 12:44 PM
dunno... the guy's index joints sure look like they've been under a lot of pressure a lot of times.
He was leaning pretty heavy against the wall, which shaves a little weight off, but it sure looks like think he was bearing the remainder of his weight on that finger.
This is hilarious. Obviously someone was holding his feet. If he was actually doing this, why did they do that godfrey ho type of cut and then not even show his feet???????????????
Ming Yue
08-10-2006, 01:34 PM
Jethro, you amateur, nobody was holding his feet. They show his feet, and it would take quite a bit lot of editing to remove someone from the frame, even on a still shot. too much work.
Now, if I, clever minx that I am, was going to fake a one finger handstand, I'd do it just like they did it in that video. I'd hang from a rope with my free hand, then erase the rope. His upper arm is straight and locked out, and his supporting arm is slightly bent. Plus the rope would be easy to edit out. They zoom to his upper hand and it looks altered.
Found this in a thread from last year, and although this is a shot from a movie of some sort, and IMHO his thumb was edited out, his free hand is against his body this time, and a three finger handstand ain't too shabby. It was pretty widely acknowledged that the guy had the skill.
http://www.davidjamieson.com/kunglek/images/haideng2fc.jpg
Betcha forgot you had that, huh David? ;)
David Jamieson
08-10-2006, 01:48 PM
nope. :) I knew i still had it.
Not sure i agree on the thumb being edited out, could be a shadow thing, but even so, yes, two fingers and a thumb is a skill. This is obviously when he was younger, possibly still learning the skill.
GeneChing
08-10-2006, 02:10 PM
One of the first things you learn about advanced skills in the martial arts is that only a few can get it. The martial arts are not democratic that way. You can train to a point of excellence but you also have to be gifted, not just in terms of physical attributes, but also in terms of determination, dedication, vision, etc. However, I beleive the fingertip handstands has a lot to do with straight up physicality. Just like with competition gymnastics, you don't see any one with a large-framed body doing this. You also don't see anyone with bad fingers. There are surely more attributes.
yu shan
08-10-2006, 02:11 PM
How nice it is to see Ming Yue post again. ;)
The Xia
08-10-2006, 02:17 PM
I always say one of the great things about martial arts is that its mostly about the time and work you put in. However, I can see how fingertip handstands would have something to do with what you are born with. As you stated, I'd imagine a small frame would be necessary, amongst other things. Still, even if someone can't do fingertip handstands that doesn't rule out all fingertip conditioning (and that has to do with actual combat).
BoulderDawg
08-10-2006, 02:24 PM
One of the first things you learn about advanced skills in the martial arts is that only a few can get it. The martial arts are not democratic that way. You can train to a point of excellence but you also have to be gifted, not just in terms of physical attributes, but also in terms of determination, dedication, vision, etc. However, I beleive the fingertip handstands has a lot to do with straight up physicality. Just like with competition gymnastics, you don't see any one with a large-framed body doing this. You also don't see anyone with bad fingers. There are surely more attributes.
Well, I have my doubts that anyone can actually do this. I would like to see it in person or even a video from start to finish.
However I have little doubt that the video in this case is fake.
David Jamieson
08-10-2006, 04:03 PM
Well, I have my doubts that anyone can actually do this. I would like to see it in person or even a video from start to finish.
However I have little doubt that the video in this case is fake.
Well, if you refuse to leave the house to go find someone who is capable, then it will have to be a video. :D
anyone? I can't do it, so don't even ask.
B-Rad
08-10-2006, 07:01 PM
Well, the guy I saw almost do it was with a Chinese wushu group that had been performing here in Columbus anually at the local Asian festival. They'd do a lot of the usual "qigong" tricks, then have one guy do the handstand trick. I haven't been there in a couple years, so he may have gotten it down by now (he was fairly young) :p I'll take a video camera next summer and see if he can do it yet (if they're still coming back). Hopefully someone will have found a good video of someone else before then, lol.
BoulderDawg
08-11-2006, 09:57 PM
Well, if you refuse to leave the house to go find someone who is capable, then it will have to be a video. :D
anyone? I can't do it, so don't even ask.
Well I'm doing it right now on my bird finger!!!!:D I would send a video but I can't do the exercise and run the camera at the same time!:eek:
jethro
08-12-2006, 12:42 PM
Jethro, you amateur, nobody was holding his feet. They show his feet, and it would take quite a bit lot of editing to remove someone from the frame, even on a still shot. too much work.
Now, if I, clever minx that I am, was going to fake a one finger handstand, I'd do it just like they did it in that video. I'd hang from a rope with my free hand, then erase the rope. His upper arm is straight and locked out, and his supporting arm is slightly bent. Plus the rope would be easy to edit out. They zoom to his upper hand and it looks altered.
Found this in a thread from last year, and although this is a shot from a movie of some sort, and IMHO his thumb was edited out, his free hand is against his body this time, and a three finger handstand ain't too shabby. It was pretty widely acknowledged that the guy had the skill.
http://www.davidjamieson.com/kunglek/images/haideng2fc.jpg
Betcha forgot you had that, huh David? ;)
Sorry to interupt again but you did force me to watch this video again. If you watch close, you will see they don't actually show anything above his feet. Zooming out another foot or two would be how hard? :rolleyes:
B-Rad
08-12-2006, 07:31 PM
I've been told that in a Chinese article someone involved in the film admited they used some sort of rope or string to hold him up. I pretty much had to take his word for it though since I don't read Chinese :p
B-Rad
08-12-2006, 07:37 PM
You can see almost his entire left foot and half his right foot... what did they do, suspend someone else from the cieling and hold him up by only grabbing his toes? Using some kind of wires/strings is much easier and makes a hell of a lot more sense ;)
hung-le
08-21-2006, 08:33 AM
It’s probably legit...
I work laying ceramic tiles and have developed strong fingers and grip I'm able to do two finger push ups ( thumb and index) without much conditioning...
I imagine someone with serious intent could attain the gung fu necessary..(I’m not so sure one could do a push up in the position the guy in the vid is in…because of keeping one's balance and all. Look at all those Olympic gymnasts and those acrobats in the “Circus du Soliay” (that French acrobatic act that is now famous…they can do simular things)
What leads me to believe it ...his hands...did anyone notice his hands? Look at how well developed his knuckles are.
When someone tells me they do a striking art I immediately look at the hands (are they conditioned? If so, chances are they spent serious time perfecting their art)
Someone (because of his age...) probably helped him into the handstand position then he assume the one finger stance... hell he might even be limber enouph to get up there himself...I don't see the point of faking it...to easy to be called on it....you either can do it or not
GeneChing
11-12-2009, 10:53 AM
I just found this while searching for something else. Check out my article in our 2007 November/December Shaolin special (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=729): The First Shaolin Monk in America: Hai Deng, the One-Finger Handstand Master (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=730)
Sometimes it takes a little while, but the answers are out there. :cool:
wuseng33
11-13-2009, 02:46 AM
i live in shanghai and frequent a city for business in zhe jiang provice called tai zhou there is a temple close to there that aparently hai deng spent many years sorry i have forgoten the name but if i recall will post at a later time. aparently the monks there still practice yi zhi chan (1 finger zen) I have been offered to go there many times but unfortunetly never had the time.
David Jamieson
11-13-2009, 05:08 AM
Johhny on the "8 years later"spot.
:D
"wait for it...wait for it...."
*8 years pass*
"There you go!"
Beautiful! :)
Royal Dragon
11-13-2009, 08:38 AM
The scary part, I actually remember this thread like it was yesterday!
GeneChing
11-13-2009, 10:21 AM
It makes it worthwhile to keep these old archived threads around. You never know what will pop up. And in the eyes of the search engines, the post time is irrelevant. All hail the KFM archive!
RenDaHai
11-23-2009, 04:26 AM
Hello,
Spoke to my teacher about hai deng fa shi,
He said he was from sichuan province.
I found a video of one of his disciples:
http://www.56.com/u75/v_MTkzNTYzNjg.html
You can get the name off this video,
Ok he seems a bit strange, and that fire thing is an obvious trick, but if he was hai deng fa shi's disciple then he could have some valuable forms, might be worth checking out.
RenDaHai
11-23-2009, 06:11 AM
Another video of haidengfashis disciples....
more crazy qigong tricks, cuts off right before the forms :-(
http://v.ku6.com/show/PjxdI5_2RPc19dg4.html
china Kungfu
01-12-2012, 11:49 AM
mod edit: Do not post links to adware sites
Djuan
09-02-2019, 01:21 PM
currently watching both of these.
Super Reverend Monk, I have actually seen a long time ago, just getting back to it for personal study lol. (Yu Hai films, he's one of my favorite patriarchs of Shaolin cinema)
& Abbot Hai Deng (1985) by recommendation :cool:
Ive seen plenty of clips of Abbot Hai Deng, just not the full documentary, surprisingly.
so far I like it, will update later
Amituofo
Djuan
09-02-2019, 05:03 PM
kinda mad at my self for blowing off Super Reverend Monk years ago, this is by far one of the best "Temple Based" flix.
Yu Hai is exceptional, the integrity of the story is solid, the Zen is in, and the fight scenes are top class.
when you get all the ChanWuYi in one film, and the actors/fighters arent joking around, its always A plus work.
Happy I watched it again.
10747
GeneChing
09-03-2019, 08:32 AM
Even though your 'Super Reverend Monk (1990) & Abbot Hai Deng (1985)' post could stand on the media subforum, I'm merging it into our vintage 'Info on HaiDeng Fashi' thread on our Shaolin subforum where it's more relevant.
Take note of my post above from a decade ago - The First Shaolin Monk in America: Hai Deng, the One-Finger Handstand Master (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?2040-Info-on-HaiDeng-Fashi&p=970170#post970170).
Chasing down the story of Hai Deng took me from a book signing for my shixiong Matt Polly's first American Shaolin (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?26966-American-Shaolin-by-Matt-Polly) to the libraries of Tassajara Zendo (https://sfzc.org/tassajara) to the City of Ten Thousand Buddhas (http://www.cttbusa.org) and finally to the Berkeley Buddhist Monastary (http://www.berkeleymonastery.org/). It was a journey of enlightenment.
Djuan
09-05-2019, 06:23 AM
It makes it worthwhile to keep these old archived threads around. You never know what will pop up. And in the eyes of the search engines, the post time is irrelevant. All hail the KFM archive!
Indeed! Amituofo :D
Djuan
09-05-2019, 06:40 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUVZXg-h3sg&t=3247s
this is absolutely a blessing to watch.
given the time it was recorded, the quality, and the fact that the Yi Jin Jing is translated by the subtitles as "I-Ching" (like a shaw brothers translation), makes it all the better to appreciate the essence of the film. and focus on the heart of the Abbot.
If you have an eye for solid gongfu, Abbot Hai Deng will resonate with you, especially if you have ever seen some one his age perform Shaolin arts with such ease. Though he was on camera, and the film is listed as party propaganda, You can still feel the wisdom of his age in his posture and demeanor, you can feel the humility in his interaction. Also, You can also get a sense of Ch'an through is motion, its hard to explain. A compacted meditation which can expand and express in any form at any time, physically, emotionally and mentally, you can get the sense of it.
You can get a sense of who is there for show and who is really studying with him as well.
All around classic material to watch and study for any student, disciple, or scholar of Shaolin. really a true martial artist will appreceate the film, as well as a true Buddhist can gain insight from watching.
from the perspective of cinema, Abbot Hai Deng, for lack of better comparison, makes his moves like master Yoda. (plus I'm a Star Wars 'correlator' by nature).....
meaning his stature and poise is withdrawn and meek, his height is shorter than that of his students, and his age is apparent, yet his energy is vital, and his face is full of youth and joy. He incredibly fast, strong, and flexible, and looks like he can smack you through the wall at will, and its taking him all the Buddha to hold his hand back lol......
I had only seen small clips of this film in the past, and dont want to regret not watching it all the way, I enjoyed it and will probably watch it a few more times this month.
Amituofo
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