What is your definition of Martial Arts?

[Surferdude]

Like what would you consider the minimum(sp) requirements for a martial art???
I've asked people and they say, It has to have kicks and punches,
or, only kicks or, only punches... I say its a system of self defense,
It doesnt have to have punches or kicks (Aikido) but just a way to defend yourself. What do you think?

[Budokan]

I would tend to go with the self-defense description, too, or even just a study of traditional combat methods. The chances of you getting to carry around a sword in public are pretty nil, but you can still study a martial art that focuses on sword use, or sai or any other weapon...and they are martial arts, too.

Is martial arts simply a "way"? But that seems too narrow a definition as well.

[SevenStar]

Any combat/self defense art. Doesn't have to be grappling, doesn't have to have weapons work, doesn't have to be kicks and punches. But, it does have to be a combat art in order to be MARTIAL.


Now, what is a COMPLETE martial art.... that's a different animal altogheter.

[ZIM]

When using the wide-open descriptor of "a system of self-defense", would it be logical then to include systems of 'applied cowardice'?

I'm thinking 'run-fu' or talking a blue streak so that the opponent is confused and disoriented... thus defusing the 'fight'.

I'm not at all saying that these *are* martial arts, per se, but that the descriptor logically includes these 'approaches', as it were... and that things like tae bo would also go into it, if the person thinks it does... its a way, even if most would laugh at it.

FWIW, maybe the concentration on specific techniques or strictly self-defense in all its variations are not quite 'it'. Budokan's idea of traditional fighting methods comes closer to the ideal as i see it... maybe any system that deals head-on with a conflict to defeat/win, whatever means are employed...

...still reaching...;) By this definition, I'd say a thoughtful approach to school-bullying is an art...not something I'd want to say...

point 2: how to divvy martial ART from self-defense short-courses, given these descriptors...? What makes it an art? The fact that it continues in the same direction over time?

[SevenStar]

Tae bo is not a study of combat though, so it shouldn't be considered a martial art. Now, if you taugh tae bo, had them doing pad work as part of it, had them spar and taught them how to use the things you were showing them in tae bo with proper form, then yes, you could consider it a martial art.

[ZIM]

Maybe- but then it would no longer quite BE tae bo, would it?

I was more leaning towards whatever the person taking it thinks of it: does it give them confidence, tools- however inadequate- to deal pro-actively with conflict?

Sure, its not very good for the task...but there have been somewhat limited approaches historically as well, hmm? Fencing comes to mind... as does some military training and the afore-mentioned self-defence courses.

This is not related at all, but i'm laughing my head off. (http://www.blackpeopleloveus.com/index.html)

[Chinwoo-er]

Something that is designed to make you win in a combat situation.

Some styles are designed to be offensive ( mainly due to the reason they were created, ie war, plunder & pillage, etc ) some are designed to be defensive. So it really depends on the style. But all evolved around combat. And the nature of enter a combat situation (be it forced or volentary(sp) ) is to win.

Of course, the follow-up question would be "what is your definition of "winning" " or "combat situation."

[Former castleva]

A systematical,arranged system of combat with it´s principles.
I take sport arts"" and combat oriented sports into account,but I am at most comfort when it comes to what ppl consider martial arts,in Asian basis with moral guidelines and character development.
It does not matter whether it´s weapons,punches,kicks,grappling-any of these will do.

And aikido has punches and kicks to a degree.

Budokan´s input also brings to mind the considerable concept of fine JMA.
"jutsu" and "do" oriented arts,thus a plain "way" or "protection system" does not qualify on it´s own.
However,the basics are there.

[ZIM]

Chinwoo-er asked some pretty good q's.

The bottom line in self-defence is merely to survive any encounter, hopefully with no harm resulting at all and with no loss to property or pre-encounter situatiion [ie, not robbed, raped, no bloody nose, etc]. To be complete, it probly should increase street level awareness, tactical sense, etc. Since the heading 'self-defence' presumes an ordinary person, its more likely to emphasize unarmed combat and may not go as far as a military art.

The bottom line of a military art is to win in an assault, whether doing an assault or recieving one. In all cases, tho, an unarmed system would be one of last resort, last preference- thus probly weapons systems feature more strongly. Any unarmed tactics would probly focus on killing. A more complete version would include incapacitating, maiming, maybe even torture... :eek: by their nature, i don't think many could be considered 'complete'-they overkill.

The bottom line for sports is to win in the ring..that teaches some practical lessons, but not enough for the militarist, not focused or comprehensive enough for the 'self-defence' person.

So, 'winning' & 'combat situation' = different end goals. None, by themselves, are 'complete'... hmmm...

What are you after?

[Former castleva]

Not to turn this into a dumb philosophy lecture that sometimes happens on board but...
I think "winning" is not a good term,the idea is to get you off that danger,simply put.
You are not to compete.

[ZIM]

I was giving thought to my 'outline for an art' while having lunch...

it went something like so:

tactical sitution [goal]:

1] self-defence [survival]
sub-heading- dueling [survive & win]

2] military/assault [defeat enemy]
sub-headings: other defence- ie, bodyguard, property [protection]
criminal activity [gaining something illegally]

3] sport [winning points]
sub-headings: entertainment :wushu, movies [tell a story]
health [*good* health]

within each, I considered 'unarmed vs. armed, violent vs. non-violent' to be independent variables...thus, it became possible to imagine an armed nonviolent art... anybody ever seen or heard of one?

I consider non-violent/military to be an oxymorn, so no need to explore that...?

also i guess, 'grappling, striking, etc' could be considered independently, for puposes of sussing it out...

Anyhow... a SYSTEM was anything that went beyond simple movements, trying to address as many variables as it could within its context, using a recognizable and consistent approach. something that 'hung together' well.

ART was then at the bottom, as a seperate category inclusive of the above... I felt that while all of these are part of it, they are not what it is. OTOH, any of these can become 'arts'. Art was the next step up from 'system'...
SYSTEM referred to the mechanics, ART referred to training methods...did the methods for training 'hang together' well?

Am i wrong here? did i miss something?

[Xebsball]

MARTIAL -> the fighting skills
ART -> level of quality "state of the art"

MARTIAL ARTS -> high quality fighting skills

[Laughing Cow]

Kinda have to go along with what Xebby said.

The purpose of any Martial Art is to make you a BETTER fighter in all aspects, physical, mental, discipline, etc.

Some are better suited for certain opponents than others.

But MA will not make a fighgter out of a non-fighter, nor will it give you more than an advantage in a confrontation.

Example:
Watched "Kiss of the Dragon" last night and saw a good application of MA principles.
Jet Li was up against a tough kicker, so he moved into an area where leg room was limited and thus neutralised his opponents kicks as the guy kept bumbing his legs into tables, chairs etc everytime he wanted to kick.

THIS for me is applied MA, it goes beyond punches, kicks, etc.

Cheers.

[yenhoi]

Martial Arts = how random people study and jumble up and confuse fighting even more then the chaotic ****ed up mess that it already is. goes along with fancy names and theorys and people paying lots of money to dress up in pajamas and pretend to be asian or what not for 1-2 hours a day.