I think I found a good school near me...?

[b18c1]

Hey all.
I just joined.

I've been looking around my area for maybe 3 weeks now looking for a good place/instructor for Kung Fu or Tai Chi.

I found this place really close to me, like 15 min. away accidently on the internet about 2 weeks ago. Here's the website: Mind, Body, Spirit Academy (http://www.flowinghands.com/mbs.frames.htm)

It looks really good. I haven't gotten the chance to actually see it yet, but I plan on doing that this week, possibly later today. The instructor seems very knowledgeable (from the articles he has written and posted on the site), and has studied under many masters in China and the USA. They list the masters he has trained with on the site. (Can anyone verify if they're good/genuine masters?)

I have one concern though. He teaches his own style of Kung Fu... If you go to that website, near the bottom there is a link called "read more about our school here" If you click that and then click "cirriculum", it will show you the details of the arts he teaches. In case you're lazy =), I'll paste the Kung Fu details here.

FLOWING HANDS KUNG FU
Flowing Hands Kung Fu is an amalgam of:

-Shaolin Kung Fu
-Kempo
-Southern Praying Mantis
-Yang Style Tai Chi
-Chinese Wrestling
-Brazilian Groundfighting

What are your guys' opinions on mixed styles, and more specifically, what do you think of his style just by looking at what makes it up. I know it's realy hard to tell these things without trying it/seeing it, but I could really use some suggestions.

I also haven't decided whether I want to take Kung Fu or Tai Chi yet either. I'm 22 so I'm pretty young and I have no problem studying an art that make take decades to master (which is what I hear about Tai Chi) I'm not looking to going into a martial art for the fighting side of it (no tournamets or anything) and I actually hope I don't ever have to use what I learn in self defense. I am more interested in the self-benefits that come from studying a martial art for decades (health/fitness/spiritual; not to sound like a "post-60's hippie student" that you guys seem to bash on alot here... I wasn't even alive in the 60's!) =) Anyways...

Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!
Thanks alot,
Ethan

[ewallace]

That tuition schedule draws some red flags here bro.

[SaMantis]

Hi Ethan,

Welcome aboard. :)

The site looks very nicely done. Of course, you'll have to stop by the school and watch (or even take part in) a couple classes to see if it fits what you're looking for.

I can't comment on the mixed kung fu that the school teaches, since there are differing opinions on that. And I don't recognize the sifu, Eo Omwake, but someone on this forum might have heard of him.

I like that the tuition rates are published on the site - you can compare them to other area schools. ($105 a month seems like a lot, but I study in Boston and that's comparable to here.)

Go ahead, check them out. If there are other CMA schools in the area, look at them, too, for comparison.

[b18c1]

Hey ewallace.

If you're looking at that $600/month, it's a typo. :p
It's supposed to be $600 for the full 6 month membership.

Hey SaMantis.

Thanks for the reply. I intend to check it out soon. Plus he gives a week of free instruction to try it out, which is really good. There aren't that many other Kung Fu places around though unfortunately. I mean, sure there ARE some, but I didn't really get a good impression of most of them.

Is $100 per month really a lot for 5 days a week of instruction? I thought it sounded reasonable, but then again, I'm new to all this. :D

Keep the replies coming
Thanks
Ethan

[ewallace]

The thing that really got my attention is that they charge extra for sparring, and that there is a difference between Kung Fu and Tai Chi.

[SaMantis]

Well, where I'm at, tuition is close to $100 a month for unlimited kung fu & sparring, but tai chi is an extra cost. When I was in Florida the same system charged $70/month for 3-4 classes a week, including sparring. So tuition should reflect the cost of living in your area.

Free week of instruction is good, as long as you don't have to sign a contract beforehand. You shouldn't have to commit to anything long-term if you're just checking it out. Avoid signing up for a lengthy contract term, too, if you decide to go. 3 months is long enough for you to decide if you really want to continue with it.

Not all systems teach KF & TC together because (a) the instructor only knows/teaches one or the other, (b) there's not enough interest in either KF or TC to warrant regular classes, or (c) some students only want one or the other. So I don't see a problem with that, but charging extra for sparring may be a little squirrelly.

[dezhen2001]

the website looks good but doesnt have much info - so best to check it out :)

i didnt like the self defence technique they are showing though... dont like that way to control the persons centre and arm - for me theres much easier ways :)

check it out and dont sign anything even if pressured. Make sure what you want and ask quesitons - its th eonly way to find out!

dawood

[b18c1]

Yeah, it's true he charges extra for sparring & groundfighting. I thought that was normal... Hm. :confused:

On the Tai Chi vs Kung Fu tuition, 3 days of Tai Chi costs the same as 3 days of Kung Fu (without sparring).

Thanks for the quick replies so far!
Ethan

[ewallace]

I usually consider Tai Chi as Kung Fu.

However, the fact that the guy does teach Brazilian ground fighting in addition to chinese arts gives me the impression that he is pretty open minded. My advice: go down and have a look-see. My general opinion is that if you know that someone can definitely kick your ass, you can definitely learn something from them. It's at what cost to you will it be to learn that can be a big factor.

[dezhen2001]

Taijiquan is kung fu - but from the pics it looks like a shaolin based style as well as some version of yang taijiquan... not really interchangeable :D so i can see why its split.

dawood

[SaMantis]

Ah, but see, if you have good Tai Chi, you have good kung fu! (get it? ar, ar)

I've always heard Tai Chi is a form of chi gong. But then, so is kung fu (so that's confusing). But the kung fu here would be in relation to teaching a specific style, as would the tai chi (which is apparently some revised form of Yang - not knocking it Ethan because I ain't seen it).

Maybe the school is set up more like a fitness gym, where each section (TC, KF, groundfighting, sparring) is taught by a contracted instructor, so the fees vary?

[dezhen2001]

yup, it could be chen man ching or something? i dont know about yang as i have only done some chen family :)

also they dont mention who they learned from or even a definitive explanation of what they actually teach - its maybe not so important but if im learning traditional taijiquan i would wanna know who my teacher learned from - the same with the kung fu :)

im sure if you ask they will prob answer ya.

dawood

[b18c1]

I guess I should really head down there and bring back more info for you guys :D
If I don't get down there today, I'll try tommorrow.

Ethan

EDIT: It does mention those who he has studied under/with. If you go back to the home page, then click that link near the bottom titled "Read more about our school here", and then click the "Founder" link, it'll tell a brief thing about him and the masters he has studied under.

[Black Jack]

May I ask why is the self defense aspect of training something you are not as focused on as the other aspects you pointed out.

Just curious?

[dezhen2001]

one thing - it mentions he does southern mantis... its not a very open group so he shold be able to tell you his teacher and it can be easily checked - its not exactly a common style. Even ask on the southern kung fu forum if anyone has heard of this guy as there are some SPM people there.

Question is - if he did that they why make your own skill? :confused:

Also the Shuai Chiao (chinese wrestling) is not so well known - there are a few knoweledgebale peeps on this forum who train it. Again maybe they can help :)

dawood

[carly]

Surely there's a ton of martial arts available in your area, and you can pick and choose your school?

[dezhen2001]

Also ask which magazine the "Qi magazine" is, because if its the one published in the UK (Tse Qigong Centre), then ask which issue they were published in and i can check for ya :)

dawood

[b18c1]

I think I should have written my first post differently...
It's not that I'm not interested in the self-defense aspect. I really am interested in it, but I don't want to go into the martial arts just so I can be "the best fighter out there" or anything, which seems like a popular reason why some younger people get into it in the first place. I just didn't want you guys to think that I want to be some ultimate fighting machine. :D

Ethan

[Cody]

Interesting. I've heard of the person who runs the school you're considering. If I am correct, he used to write quite a bit for T'ai Chi Magazine about a decade ago, and I had no idea that he had branched out so. I did read his articles, but it's been a while and I've moved on.
Anyhow, I'm perplexed by the mixed offering, and how it would be presented. I'm curious about the degree of his background in many of these disciplines. who he studied with would be a good start.

Your age is an advantage in learning any martial art. But, along with that comes inexperience in evaluating what you see and what you are told. I guess that comes with the territory of life.
T'ai Chi is meant to be mastered in a reasonable amount of time. This depends on the person, and their suitability to a particular art, and to how the art is taught. This nonsense of taking decades is a string-along tactic. If there are students at school who are plodding along and getting nowhere after 10, 15, even 20 years of practice and who remain dependent on the teacher and on his approval, then something is not right.

I'm sorry I don't have more concrete info for you.

very best wishes,
Cody

[carly]

and mentions studying with Liang Shou Yu of Vancouver, a shuia chiao (Chinese wrestling) teacher.
If you wanted, you could ask his sifu about him:
webmaster@shouyuliang.com

[ewallace]

Just don't ask monkeyslap too about Shuai Chiao. From what Waterdragon and Sevenstar have told me, he doesn't know jack.

[Water Dragon]

ewallace is correct. Jack is a Wing Chun guy.

[dezhen2001]

LMAO! :D

dawood

[ewallace]

I thought jack was the father of the kid on the football team that had a really huge ball-shaped head. My fault.

[b18c1]

Wow, so many replies in so little time. I connect at 26.4k, so when I finally post a reply and refresh the page, 4 new replies have been posted .:D

It does list who he studied with/under. It's the "Founder" link that I mentioned near the bottom of the first page fo this thread.

Hey Cody.

That's reassuring that you've heard of him before. :)
And it's also nice to know it probably won't take 25 or 20 years to master like I've heard.

Hey carly.

Thanks for that email! I'll be sure to email him at some point and ask about Eo Omwake.

Ethan

[dezhen2001]

he is the father, but he trains wing chun as well. :eek:

dawood

[dezhen2001]

good luck :)

dawood

[Brad]

Is $100 per month really a lot for 5 days a week of instruction? I thought it sounded reasonable, but then again, I'm new to all this.

The most expensive kungfu place I know of around here(Wah Lum) charges abiut $100 a month. It's up there, but not totally unreasonable.

[Oso]

my 2 cents would be the observation that sparring should not
be separate from the regular curriculum.

And, with the accepted standard around here that it takes about
10 years to know a system well enough to be considered a sifu in
it, I would question the amalgamation of 6 different styles by
someone who is only claiming 25 years of training.

I would bet his tai chi is ok to good if he had articles accepted
by a magazine but I would also bet that his 'kung fu'
curriculum is mostly kempo since that is the only thing he
claims rank for.

Now, I'm not casting stones. My own history is a bit muddled.
But, I don't BS my students about what they are getting.

This guy may very well be the person to give you what you
want. As others have said, go see.

good luck.

[bob10]

Sorry to diagree Oso, but having articles printed in magazines is no real indication of anything.

As far as the school goes it sounds lke a bit of everything for everyone to me. I can't see why you would have to pay extra for "sparring", why separate it out from regualr training? Or is it competition type sparring they are doing?

I wonder that if Mongolian Toe Wrestling suddenly became the in-thing if that would form part of his "kung fu" style too?

[Oso]

bob10, I think it depends on the magazine. I believe someone
said he was in Tai Chi mag a while back. Tai Chi is a respected
magazine as far as I know. This would lend some credibility to
his tai chi. IMO

And, I'm glad you agreed that sparring should not be separate.

w/o sparring you have a dance class.