Prohormones: 1-testosterone

[Ford Prefect]

While I generally don't like supplementing my diet with anything more than some MRP, protein, and glutamine, I decided that I would give a 1-test product a try. I was going to do one 4-week cycle just see if all the hype was right.

As I posted earlier, I had recently bulked up to 195+lbs from 160, but of course I gained some added flub. In the following weeks, I managed to strip a good amount of it off, but my weight had gone down to 185 and it seemed as if I'd have to drop to to around 180 before I was at the level of bodyfat I was comfortable at.

After 3 weeks of 1-test supplementing, I'm at 187 today with a definate decrease in bodyfat percentage. To be fair, I've cycled in 2 weeks thermogenics and 1 week of yohimbe as well. However, having an increase in muscle mass while losing fat and doing A LOT of cardio is a pleasent suprise.

Feel free to fire off any questions, and I'll be happy to answer them.

[IronFist]

Are you talking about Ergopharm's 1-AD? I've heard that's the only prohormone worth using.

I don't know that much about prohormones... but since they're both prefixed by 1- I thought it might be the same.

IronFist

[grifter721]

what were teh side effects?

[Ford Prefect]

Iron,

It's along the same lines and runs through the same pathways essentially. I've heard of a loss of labido associated with ergopharm's product, and I wasn't having that. (neither was my gf) ;)

Grifter,

The same side effects are what can be found with steroids. Like steroids though, you generally have to abuse it in order for these side effects to pop up. The directions say "Take one pill once or twice daily". I didn't know if they meant for twice daily, you have to split the pill in half or if you could take a whole other pill, so to be safe, I only take 1 pill daily. Most nuts, who then lose their nuts, take 3-5x the recommended daily dosage.

[wall]

I don't mean to be disrispectful to anyone, but if there are any young guys here starting strenght training and reading this thread, please listen to the following:

I can assure you, regardless of your genetics, you don't need ANY of these substances/supplements/etc to achieve the results of FordPerfect and Ironfist. With appropriate natural nutrition (high in protein and carbs) and appropriate exercise (intensity/split/rest), ANYONE no matter how genetically unlucky can achieve bw of 170-200, low bf% and substantial strenght.
Unless you want to achieve pro-bodybuilder size, none of that stuff is needed. Anyone that professes otherwise is simply misinformed or is not following optimal diet and training regime to begin with.
Don't damage your wallet and potentially your health to achieve goals that are so easily achievable anyway with the right program, some determined effort, and sufficient eating.

Wall

[Ford Prefect]

Wall,

I agree with what you said for the most part. I definately don't believe that the use of pro-hormones and thermogenics is necessary for achieving fitness or appearance goals. I just wanted to provide my experience with these products for anybody that was curious, but was having a hard time sifting through the propoganda by supplement companies.

I do disagree with your assessment that anybody of any type of genetics can achieve their goals without supplements. While in theory, this is true. In practice it is not. I am as hard-gainer/ectomorph as they come. There is absolutely no way I could have gained the amount of weight I did without the use of meal replacement shakes and protein shakes. I'd have to carry around chicken, milk, and rice everywhere I went and I'd have to deal with being contantly full and feeling like #2 all the time. However, MRP's and protein shakes just contain things found in regular food, so I wouldn't consider them in the same league as something that changes your body's metabolism and protein synthesis.

[wall]

Ford, I mostly agree with your post, and I was primarily referring to hormones and such.
However, whilst reasonably harmless, I think that protein shakes (which are often sugar loaded) are also unecessary and easily improved on. I myself used for years to integrate my diet with post-training protein shakes and such, until I realized that 1/2 litre (2 average glasses) of skim milk provides you with an ample "protein shot" whilst eliminating the sugar and other dubious ingredients. Add to that a bread-roll (easily purchased anywhere) for some much needed carbs for us hardgainers (again with no fat nor sugar - but some always welcome fibre) and you have roughly equivalent carbs and protein to the powders but without the other dubious ingredients (and far more cheaply too).

:)

Wall

[Ford Prefect]

Hi Wall,

MRP's are generally loaded with sugars with few exceptions. Protein powders generally are not. The protein powder I use has 70 servings of 20+g of protein with less carbs than a cup of milk for $30. That's less that $.50/serving. Look at your gallon of skim milk which doesn't have as many servings, as much protein/serving, and has as much if not more carbs/serving and you'll see that you have to drink A LOT more milk in order to equal the amount of protein in a shake and with that milk comes a lot more carbs. (not to mention that you can mix powders with milk for even more benefit)

Now also add this to the ease of travel for powders and milk. I can take a mixer cup with powder in it anywhere. It will never go bad. All I have to do is add water. Milk, on the other hand, will go bad and quickly loses its appeal as it warms. If a cap isn't on tight or a container leaks I now have a bag full of milk that soaked anything else with it. I'm not lucky enough to have access to fridges all day where I can store gallons of milk. Most people don't. Protein shakes are cheaper and easier.

On a side note, a common bread roll contains simple carbs which are basically just sugar. Your body will break it down quickly into glucose. I've tried bulking naturally before. I was always stuffed and progress was slow. Twice now, I've gained 20-35 lbs by using MRP's and PP's though. I couldn't have come close to the same results without them.

[IronFist]

I think what he meant was, if you're new to weight lifting and/or fitness, don't mess with supplements, especially the ones that mess with your body's chemistry, until you have a bit of experience, and you know why you're taking what you're about to take.

That was worded poorly :eek:

Just like, don't be like "ok I'm going to start weightlifting tomorrow" and then start taking creatine, MRP's, prohormones, etc.

IronFist

[wall]

Ford,

Interesting info, thanks.

I actually find that plenty of carbs are needed to support my hardgainer high metabolism, whilst the protein builds muscle tissue.
During my bulking periods I have bread/pasta/rice every meal, in conjunction with protein. Say tipically smaller meals (breakfast, mid-morning and mid-afternoon snacks) are made up of a few glasses of skim milk and bread (with a little jam or honey), whilst the main meals (lunch and dinner) consist of BIG servings of pasta or rice with chicken/eggs/tuna or such. It equates to 30-50g of protein every meal, and LOTS of carbs.
In the cutting phase I just take the pasta/rice off the dinner menu and watch the weight drop :)
With this system I started strenght training in conjunction to my MA at age 20, and went from 150 to 195 by age 22. I then slightly reduced the big carbs servings and gradually dropped to 175 without any strenght/muscle losses, at quite low bf%. Since then (7 years ago) I've been steady hovering between 170 and 180 with gradual slight gains in strenght (probably due to density and neurological alterations given the lack of mass gain).

For periods I used PPs + MRPs in substitution of some of the smaller meals, and I developed the convinction that whilst they can be a great substitute, they can also be avoided alltogether whilst achieving similar results.

Wall

[wall]

On a side note.......funny how among us "fitness nerds", analyzing minute details of training regimes and diet, most seem to be hardgainers. I guess that our genetics force us to get extra attentive to what we do and eat to ensure desired results :)
Perhaps a good side-effect after all......as well as being able to never worry about a six pack not showing ;)

W

[Ford Prefect]

Heh. No kiddin. If you're an endomorph, following that crap in men's health mags would work well enough, and most people leave well enough alone. ;)

[ElPietro]

A couple comments about me disagreeing with much of what wall said. First, no you cannot become what you want to become through natural training, if your natural goals are beyond your genetic potential. And I'd say that for 90% of the population this would hold true. If you just want to be able to see your abs of course diet is key. But if you want to look anything near a competition bodybuilder, or pro fighter or athlete, then you are not going to get there on your own. Of course, if you are new to lifting, there is absolutely no reason you should do anything other than research anabolics. Once you've come close to, or hit your genetic potential, then there is a case for taking, but until you are near there, I wouldn't recommend it. Then of course there is the case of whether or not you are comfortable with it.

Second, you say that protein shakes are all sugar, yet you recommend milk and bread? Both of these convert to very high sugar content consumables, so this pretty much throws your point out the window. And if you say your body needs carbs right after workouts, yes this is somewhat true, and guess what sugar is? You got it, a carb. Protein shakes are just that, protein, unless you spend a ton of money on these shakes that gyms sell or are premixed. But if you buy a tub of protein that's all you are getting.


Ford:

I haven't done much reading on 1-test, but know some people that have used it, and had a bit of a grasp on it before. This is basically test prohormones that are taken in patch form I think? Basically, from what I understood when it first came out, is that it's basically the same thing as taking test, only the transport mechanism is much more user friendly than injecting. This is the point that sort of upset me about governemnts and their ignorance. That they outlaw all anabolics, yet a different form comes along in a nice friendly delivery mechanism and it's ok. I bet if it had to be injected it would be banned in a second. Although, as I said, I haven't done a ton of research, so I could be off, but the people who took it agreed with me when we spoke, so I couldn't be too far off.

I'm too big to want to use gear right now anyway, unless I was gonna compete, and I still consider myself to have a long way to go naturally still, before I'd even consider it for me.

[yenhoi]

My diet is almost exactly as wall described, except I use protein shakes (mainly before bed, but often before or after workouts.)

:eek:

[ElPietro]

Well, I would say that 200 lbs at 10% bodyfat is beyond the grasp of most people. You can get to most any weight with eating, but attaining a specific physique is not the same as getting to a specific weight. It's just a pet peeve of mine, for people to make it seem like they can hit those goals that are just not reasonable. While I think people should just train as hard as they can, and the results will be whatever they are, and then you know there wasn't anything else you could have done naturally to get bigger or stronger.

The whole point of me speaking of protein, was that it's just that, protein. It has nothing to do with sugar. It's whatever you add to it, so if you don't want a sugar laden protein shake, don't add any to it. Many people are against supplements, but that's all they are, a supplement to your diet. Whey protein is an excellent source, and the convenience of me carrying it around in powder form, ready to mix with water at a moments notice, in my opinion makes it very superior to any other natural form of protein for postworkout. Not to mention it's high bioavailability.

I was more or less clarifying your point, I guess, rather than outright disagreeing with all of it.

[Cheese Dog]

Hey Ford, does 1-test convert into estrogen or DHT? And if so, are you using anything to cut down on this?

[Mr. Bao]

Ford:

Good luck on testing pro-hormone supplement and please keep us updated on your results. Personally, I have do not see the need for myself to use these kinds of supplements myself because I am only 26 years of age and the fear factor of screwing around my body chemistry. Perhaps in the future when I have exhausted my gains or when the facts of this supplement is proven safe and effective, then I will also give it a test run.

However I think and would recommend Creatine, MRPs such as N-Large (btw, great stuff Ford, thanks for the recommendation brought a 10lb tug for 40 beans), powder protien supplements such as whey or L-glutamine, and vit. supplements for anyone 18 and over.

As ectomorphs, we have many struggles and we have to be very conscious of our diets and training more so than your mesomorphs. It is no surprise atheletic/ active ectomorphs are more likely to be more intellectual about the science of strength training and corrective diets more so than your gifted mesomorphs and even endomorphs. We can not cheat or be half ass about anything such as rest, training, and diet without losing something within our objective and gain.

Last note, since there may be young readers out there. I would encourage you (young ectomorphs or average genetic gifted) to read McRobert's books such "Brawn" and "Hardgainer" if hyperthrophy and weight gain is their primary objective. It is a wonderful, user friendly, non hyped, and centered around realistic ectomorph training/diet handbook. I only wish I read this when I was in High School.

[fa_jing]

how about the "hungry? eat." approach? well balanced, nutritious diet? It's worked in the past for many people. Not that I don't like vitamins and herbs. You know, don't eat for two hours before you work out and that's about it for rules

[Mr. Bao]

Fa Jing;

I agree that food is medicine and it is really overlook as a simple basic biological mean for preventive medicine and optimal health.
I am all for natural and holistic means for improving one's natural abilities and health. However, there are times we have to do radical stuff in order to gain something different than what we are and it is up to us as freed spirits to decide our best avenues.

Mr. Ford perfect, I would imagine is a responsible american and if he want to experiment with supplements such as pro-steroid like drugs or physical enhancing chemicals be it legal or illegal that is up for him and I believe we should have the god given right to decide what we deem is safe and good for ourselves and not allow the AMA, FDA, and RDA to govern our eating habits. These greedy and selfish medical organizations are as about as clueless on supplements as a Bush is about peace making.

By the way, not eating two hours before a workout is a myth. There are studies that shown eating a hour before your workout and after your workout is good for you in terms of recovery and building muscles. If you are interested, I can pm you the sources done at Texas University and in France.

[fa_jing]

Hey, thumbs up to Ford Perfect because it's information that we might use one day.

[Ford Prefect]

Just a quick update:

My nuts started feeling funny (the only way I can explain it), so I discontinued use. The feeling went away the day I stopped. That finishes that!

Been busy at work lately and unable to hit thr forum. Will answer some questions here later in the week. ;)

[fa_jing]

See? Good info, Ford, took one for the team, way to go!!!
:D

[TjD]

Originally posted by Ford Prefect
Just a quick update:

My nuts started feeling funny (the only way I can explain it), so I discontinued use. The feeling went away the day I stopped. That finishes that!

Been busy at work lately and unable to hit thr forum. Will answer some questions here later in the week. ;)


how long had you been using them before this? :)

[Mr. Bao]

Anyone who has over size balls, take the same supplements as Ford Perfect. LoL. Ford, I wish I caught your tread eariler. I have heard rumors eariler before about ball shrinking effects and etc, but I chalked it up as myth or hearsay. Well I guess my fears were valids and I wont be talking this supplement for sure. However, it is funny that I never got anything bad when I did a cycle of D-bols, Winnie, and Deca three years ago. Again, I am against juice now and dont think it is good or wise. Thanks for the feedback Ford.