reiki

[davethedragon]

hello everyone
i have been doing reiki for a couple of years and have a 2nd degree.
i was wondering how many other people in this forum have any knowledge of the system and what their opinions on reiki are(either good or bad!)
do you think its healing properties pose a good balance against the destructive potential of the martial arts for example.

[Former castleva]

I view martial arts as destructive forces to be balanced only when it comes down to Chinese school of dualism thought.

Reiki to me is like other schools of "laying hands" therapy,I´m a skeptic but it is interesting none the less.
My personal experiences/study ón reiki indicate some spiritual and political images that I´m not very fond of.

Welcome to the forum(s)´.

[davethedragon]

thank you for prompt response and for my welcome!!

i agree with your point about dualism i first got interested in reiki because i thought to myself "well i am learning how to hurt people so the natural balance is to learn how to heal them"


Reiki in my experience is just another form of chi gung the only major difference being that it does not require the intent of mind that one has to develop with chi gung.

what part of the spiritual side of reiki are you not fond of??

i think it is like with most things it can be as spiritual or non spiritual as you want it to be.

whats finland like?!

[Former castleva]

" thank you for prompt response and for my welcome!!

i agree with your point about dualism i first got interested in reiki because i thought to myself "well i am learning how to hurt people so the natural balance is to learn how to heal them"

You´re welcome. ;)
That is a good idea.What art are you learning? Reiki is not your average counterbalancer for MA it would seem to me,if you´re learning kf or related you might be introduced to acupressure,massage etc.
I´m not telling you to dump reiki of course.

"Reiki in my experience is just another form of chi gung the only major difference being that it does not require the intent of mind that one has to develop with chi gung."

That is an interesting idea.
I´ve seen some experts refer to reiki as not being as dependent on healer as it goes like in qi-gong (the idea of a healer passing the energy for the patient)
I think I´m more along your lines since that does not sound like a completely mature idea (lacking in depth)
In reiki you pass "divine force",call it "ki","chi" if it sounds better for qi-gong,I think that the idea of this universal force is the very same and no different between these two arts of Chinese and Japanese origin.

"what part of the spiritual side of reiki are you not fond of??"
This is not exactly easy to define but I think it has to do with spirituality overall,symbolics,"masters" (not in many arts do practitioners with training call themselves such) and passing of the energy (in order to use it) from master to student as sort of a graduation etc.
My knowledge of reiki is limited though,hopefully taken into account. :)
I´m myself mostly interested in school medicine but I keep track for alternative methods.

"i think it is like with most things it can be as spiritual or non spiritual as you want it to be."
A good idea for sure.

"whats finland like?!"
A harsh European country. :)
http://virtual.finland.fi/

[davethedragon]

using reiki a a healer to a patient is the more traditional way of doing things.
i have " had" reiki for the last 2 years and only done 2 healings most of the time i just do it on myself after training or as a pick me up if i am feeling low on energy or feeling stressed.
it is particularly good on injuries etc.

finlan looks cool.(excuse the pun!!)

[Former castleva]

I see.
Well I look forward for your posts.

[prana]

I think reiki is a good thing.

I also think it can work on two levels, one on the not so spiritual level and one on the very spiritual level.

first, the not so spiritual level....

touch is a good healer, actually its a great healer. Sometimes showing compassion for the suffering could help their sickness, or at least help them towards a better recovery and increase their "positivity"

secondly, on a more spiritual level, I also think that reiki if performned by a person whose channels have been properly cleared, can be extremely beneficial. However, the person needs have their channels cleared to receive the energy and transmit it to their patients. Also, even better if the person has been introduced to the "healer" so to speak....

[azwingchun]

It is funny that this has come up, my Sifu and I had a very long discussion about this very same thing. Myself, I have used Reiki for about 10 years now, and have had some very good results with it. Though, I have studied Qi Gong just as long if not longer.

I asked my sifu what his opinion was on Reiki, his response was less than what I expected. He said that Reiki may be good for healing people but that it was very harmful over time to the practitioner. Reason being is that Reiki people believe that the energy used is not their own but from the universe. He said that this is were the problem begins. Because they believe this way, they don't feel the need to build up their own energy before, during or after using Reiki. This results in a loss of qi for the healer. He states that even if you say that their is Reiki is coming from the universe, you are still sending energy from your body just through the idea of touching someone and wanting them healed. In other words just the intent to send energy and heal.

By the way he is an amazing Doctor of Classical Chinese medicine. He made a very interesting statement to me about Reiki healers as well. He said that he personally has treated several Reiki masters and all of them had low heart energy (to put it simply). He believes this to be to the fact that they over time deplete themselves during healings and don't do any kind of qi gong to rebuild their qi.

Now I realize as does he admit, this is only his opinion through his own experiences. But if you think about it, it does make sense.

;)

[davethedragon]

azwingchun

hello there!!

thats is quite an interesting point i had never taken into account i think replenishing you own energy levels is vitally important.
mr reiki"master" has had reiki for ages and has given many helaings to people over the years and he has recalled feelings of tiredness and apathy after helaing a particularly ill/unstable person.

self healing is the best way to use reiki in my opinion as you are only enhancing your own levels and getting any bad stuff for your troubles!!

[dfedorko@mindspring.com]

Is reiki just another form of massage? Is reiki a superior form of massage? Does it promote something other massage techniques lack? Just curious. Have a good day.

[Nexus]

You must charge yourself up in silent meditation on a mountain for 100 hours, to then be ready to administer 10 minutes of quality healing. Or, if you can attain a deep state of meditation in a McDonalds in Ny City, you only need about 10 seconds.

[azwingchun]

This may be something to pass on to your Reiki Master, he may thank you later.

Anytime when using energy to heal, we always stop when we begin to feel tired or our hands or body feel as if they become cold or cooler, to name a few sensations. And then do some qi gong, to build up our qi again, this protects our own bodies after being possibly drained. ;)

[guohuen]

ROTFLMAO at Nexus.:D :D :D

[Vapour]

I practice taichicuan as a martial arts. My approach to qi is as follow. If the classics say swallow heaven's qi to your dantien then, I don't imagine mythtical force going into my dantien. Instead, I tried to do abdominal breathing paying attention to my posture and relaxation. I do imagine air going down to dantien and circulating back to the mouth through my back because in this way, it is easier to control my breathing.

What I notice is that those who come to do taichichuan as health/meditation arts get the least health/mental benefit from the art. Few reiki people come to our class occasionaly but they always leave once they discovered real taichichuan is not what they expects.

This often is to do with their motive. Frankly speaking, majority of them who come to do taijichuan are looking for easy answer to whatever problems (health, social, emotional) they have in life. Once they discover that taijichuan is in fact difficult arts to master, they move on to other thing including other Mac-taichi class where there is no possibility of failiure. My instructor do believe in healing property of qi but he once made comment that those people who get into reiki has type of qi he least wish to receive.

Reiki not only claim to heal (and implicitly imply to solve your whatever emotional problems), there is an added bonus of not using one's own qi. So it tend to attract people who want the easiest way out to their problem.

Since you practice martial arts, you seems not to be the type of people I'm talking about. But to be honest, I don't consider reiki highly mainly because of the type of people who swarm around it.

[prana]

I disagree but I agree to disagree :)


Reiki not only claim to heal (and implicitly imply to solve your whatever emotional problems), there is an added bonus of not using one's own qi. So it tend to attract people who want the easiest way out to their problem.

I admit there ARE many shonky and questionable practitioners out there, but then there are others, albeit a small few....

But, I respect your opinion.

[davethedragon]

to suggest that there are a " type of people" that swarm around any topic is a bit of a generalisation.

i do know what you mean though, although i didnt start reiki personally because of any mental/emotional/spiritual problems it was just the natural progression in my martial arts/ chi gong road.

there seem to be a wide range of views on the topic though!!

good stuff!
:D :D :D :D :D :D

[Vapour]

I apologise if my previous comment sounded a bit too harsh. But it is based on my personal experiences.

Reiki was started by a Japanese guy who wanted to find the way to heal others without depleting his own ki. When he discovered it (or so he claimed he did), he called that reiki (spirit qi in Japanese)

Now, only way his system makes sence to me is that he may have found a quite efficient way to tap into heaven's chi that is air, which in chinese/japanese is written as qi/ki of vacuum. Some taichichuan classics (and in any qigong classics) state that if you can tap into heaven's chi (i.e. air), and mix with your blood chi (again my interpretation is simply blood) it will produce such heat that qi will overflow all over your body. This is not so hard to understand even from the science poin of view.

The classics describe heaven's chi as unlimited. So reiki simply may be a method to balance your incoming qi with outgoing qi, which imply that you have to be an extremely good practioner of qigong method before attaining the level to practice reiki.

Instead, my experience with reiki people is that their internal level is below the average population. They tend to be very fragile, and as a result, extremely tense becasue they had to lock their joints to support their weight. In fact, telling them to relax seems to make their posture worse. When I did pushing hand exercises with them, I often had to tell them not to be floppy which is different from being relaxed. I also saw two of them do reiki after the class but their back wasn't straight and their shoulder was up so I don't know what type of ki they were trying to pass on.

Now this is more about criticism of practioner of the art rather than the art itself. And this critisim can be applied to taijiquan as well. To be honest average quality of taijiquan is awful to say the least and some of them downright damaging to your health particulary to the knees because of the standard of the art being taught. My experience is that the worse the instructor's level of taijichuan, more metaphsical bull**** coming out from his/her mouth.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..




My experience is that the worse the instructor's level of taijichuan, more metaphsical bull**** coming out from his/her mouth.

Just looking for clarification.. do you believe that metaphysics are bull***? Do you believe that metaphysical beliefs degrade one's Taiji skill/understanding? This is not intended to be contentious, rather a curiosity of styles of presentation vs. beliefs..

Be well..

[Vapour]

Originally posted by TaiChiBob
Greetings..

Just looking for clarification.. do you believe that metaphysics are bull***? Do you believe that metaphysical beliefs degrade one's Taiji skill/understanding? This is not intended to be contentious, rather a curiosity of styles of presentation vs. beliefs..

Be well..

My instructor has been practicing Tibetan Buddhistm for more than 20 year and he has trained in tibetan yoga (energy arts, meditative art or whatever you call it). For this reason he seems to think that trying to practice taijiquan as a meditative art is akin to tryin to learn how to fight from TaeBo. Though taijiquan can be practiced as a spiritual persuit, that is true of any arts (music/sports) if someone put enogh dedication to it. If you try really hard, you might even become a competent fighter by practicing Taebo. But why someone spend 8 hours a day in Taebo to become a fighter when you can get the same result by spending 2 hours (or even less) a day practcing kick boxing is beyone me.

When my instructor explain more methaphysical concept in taijiquan such as ki, he always put this in context of martial arts. Ki is explained to us more as tool of imaginery to let one have better martial result (body coordination mainly) rather than trying to prove that ki exist as a energy which can blast you like Kamehameha.

That does not mean he doesn't believe in (or know) ki. He once, in very rare occasion said, if someone else used his sword, he can feel it. However, he rarely mention such hocuspocus to begginers. Even to us he never get into speech of how great unkown power of ki. When we are not talking about taijiquan, our conversation tend to be stuff like Babylon 5 or Buffy. (yes, it is very embarrasing at his age but he is a sci fi fun).

If you are practicing martial arts, best way to understand ki is through its martial application. Moreover, my take is that to understand ki in more philosophical/religious/intellectual term only hinder your understanding of ki if you are doing through taijiquan. It should be experienced rather than intellectually imagined. What is the point of talking about oneness with cosmo when you can't even keep one's spine straight.

So to answer your question, I don't consider ki as BS to the extent that when I push, for example, I imagine releasing energy through my hand generated from my tantien and that works. But if someone start to talk about NewAge, crystal gazing ki, my BS radar go into red alert.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..


So to answer your question, I don't consider ki as BS to the extent that when I push, for example, I imagine releasing energy through my hand generated from my tantien and that works. But if someone start to talk about NewAge, crystal gazing ki, my BS radar go into red alert.

There seems to be a conflicting perspective in your statement.. it seems that it's acceptable to imagine moving energy (Ki, Chi, etc..) for martial arts but not for other purposes.. i suggest that this is simply a matter of personal preference.. Now, to be fair, i have found only very few ( 4 to be precise) situations where i was convinced that there was a genuine metaphysical experience transmitted to me by another.. Yet, i am not so self-involved as to dismiss the possibility that there may be some validity to energy work outside my own understanding of it.. I simply ask for proof, show me..

Internally, i have vast experiences at the metaphysical level that i am convinced are genuine.. i sense that everything is simply energy vibrating at frequencies that manifest form, shape and mass.. as such we can, if properly trained and conditioned, manipulate energies for purposes of our choosing.. This is a vast new area of particle physics that is just beginning to emerge.. In short, i believe we set our own boundaries by the beliefs we hold as "true".. you may dismiss certain aspects of existence that another finds valid.. but, it's just a matter of perspective.. As for Chi projecting/blasting, my experience suggests it is possible but i haven't had a genuine experience to support that belief.. Chi as a healing tool, however.. i have had a profound and verifiable experience with many witnesses, it works (in the hands of a true Master).. I had a QiGong Master repair a torn groin muscle overnight.. and i do mean "torn"..

I suggest that energy, whatever you call it, has no boundaries, is not confined except by choice.. i, personally, find enrichment at many different levels of energy work including metaphysical.. that even metaphysics enhances my martial arts.. (no, i don't do "crystal gazing").. But, when i am attending to my Martial Arts my focus is purely on that, and the desired result.. if metaphysics can help, i do not dismiss it based on unfounded prejudice...

Be well....

Anyway, i only hope to offer food for thought, a different perspective.. Be well..

[woliveri]

Nicely put Bob.

[Vapour]

One of the senior technical advisors of our organization do rather amazing demonstration of fajing. You could call it a trick because it is a simple taijiquan push (An) but when he did it to rather tall and large British guy, the guy literally flew to the wall (the length was about the front to the back of a sedan car). Not only that, when the guy hit the wall, his foot was about 30 cm above the floor. More amazing thing is that when he did this push, he let two people lightly grab his upper arm from both side and do exact same push without hardly moving his arm at all. When you get pushed by him, the thing is that you don't feel being pushed. You just feel this incredible rush (ki blast?) and next thing you notice is bang, you back/head hit the wall and you go "WTF was dat?!!!!!"

If he was a charatan, he could easily claim that he did a Kamehameha. After all, this chinese guy blasted the big white guy off to the wall few meter away, 30 cm above the floor without hardly moving. But he does not claim he did ki blast as understood by many people. He say he simply did taijiquan push, that is "when you move everthing move". He simply got into his posture and then, his every tiny bit of his body move(relax) in flash only in incredibly small amount simultaneously. That is why two guys on the sides hardly felt anyting. It's a trick but is a very impressive trick. Furthermore, he stated on the record that he never met anyone who can do ki blast, that is to be able to move someone without touching it.

As I come from Japan, I have seen good traditional touch heeling (massage) and bone seting works for certain cronic aligements. But I just don't feel the need to define these cure as something beyond "western" science. It may be to do with me having oriental background (not saying ALL oriental are immuse to crystal gazing trick). But if it's works, that is fine by me. If science can explian it, that is even better. Question is why do one need to prove the existence of ki in the first place? Isn't the fact that you can do better taijiquan or make someone healthier good enough?

For example, human body insulate heat so to store heat within its body. By relaxing your muscle, you release this insulation effect so your body will release your inner body heat. Even in taijiquan, advanced practioner is expected to do this heat release. Say you hold single whip posture. Since you have weight in left leg, your right hand should be positive one. Advance practioner could keep right palm red and left palm white then without making any move, s/he can make right palm white and right palm red. (Easiest way to do this is to hold your one arm above your head and keep other hand down. After a minitue compare the colour of your palms). No doubt sicence can explain how mechanism in human physiology produce such result and even can write an article about it.

But as a teaching method, I don't think reading scietific paper on mechanism of bodily heat would help to learn how to do that. On the other hand, oriental method of telling student to relax and imagine the flow of ki would be far superior teaching method. And no doubt science would come up with "proof" that having warmer hand while massaging would produce better result or doing shiatu on meredian point or doing it in particular order of meredian points has curative effect but so what? (O.K. TCM going main stream is good for sick people but my conern is personal here.)

As I said, my instructor once commented that if someone use his sword, he can feel it somehow. But this statement just came up in conversation because we are talking about having spare swords in our open seminar. I or anyone else at this point did not suddenly kneel down on the floor and said "Ahhh master, you can feel ki, show us your power." We just moved on to other conversation. If he can feel it, fine. One day I might feel it too but so what? I don't have problem with someone using my stuff as long as they return it to me. Can I make money out of it, probably if I really want to rip money off from people. Have I become better taijiquan practioner, maybe. Have I become better person, probably not. For me if taijiquan let me fight better(well in my case, do better pushhand and judo), that is fine by me.

There are large number of westerner (and easterner) who possess this peculiar psycological need to prove (or wanting to believe) that ki exists beyond realm of science. And obviously, they want to practice this magic art probably because they want to become a Harry Potter. These people often swarm in taijiquan, qigong, reiki and other arts taught by dubious practioners of these arts who are happy to make money out of it. Often genuine practioner of these art would tell these people something which would dissapoint them. Lot of people who come to our club leave after discovering that taijiquan is a martial arts.

And in my view, such attitude is more of hinderance to learning the arts because it often lead to make believe effect. My attitude is that good application of taijiquan principle (including its ki concept) would produce better result in my judo or pushhand. And even if I did win in my judo/pushhand sparing, I should examine whether I produce such result from good taijiquan. On the other hand, crystal gazing taijiquan practioner might think he is doing good taijiquan because he *think* he can feel ki flowing all over his body and he generally feel good about himself.

Gosh, this is such a long comment.....

[prana]

Originally posted by Vapour
One of the senior technical advisors of our organization do rather amazing demonstration of fajing. You could call it a trick because it is a simple taijiquan push (An) but when he did it to rather tall and large British guy, the guy literally flew to the wall (the length was about the front to the back of a sedan car). Not only that, when the guy hit the wall, his foot was about 30 cm above the floor. More amazing thing is that when he did this push, he let two people lightly grab his upper arm from both side and do exact same push without hardly moving his arm at all. When you get pushed by him, the thing is that you don't feel being pushed. You just feel this incredible rush (ki blast?) and next thing you notice is bang, you back/head hit the wall and you go "WTF was dat?!!!!!"



many our the seniors in the gorchor schools did that. And many Westerners came to Malaysia to study from our grandmaster for this simply reason.

He never claimed any fajing capabilities, simply knowing how to push.

I think what I am getting at, is that, most ppl here know not to jump into conclusion about things just because "they" cant reach it yet.

But claiming that one that practises Vajrayana for 20 years, is saying that practising "taijiquan as a meditative art is akin to tryin to learn how to fight" ... I just wanted to remind you that Buddha taught thousands of technique for bettering the mind and body, and some ppl are just not suited for sitting meditation. In this way, TaiJiQuan is an excellent platform for ones wheel of progress.

The other point I want to make is that although Vajrayana has techniques that can help a person reach enlightenment in 2 years , one of the fundamental PRECEPTS of vajrayana is not to put down any teaching from the Hinayana or the Mahayana schools. This ties back to the fundamental teachings of the historical teaching, giving different teachings to suit different people.

Hence, if taijiquan helps a million chinese people achieve inner peace, it is great. If ReiKi helps a million people feel better, it is great.

No one here claims that ReiKi is a form of Kameihameiha, but you should keep open-minded instead of calling BS on others. I am thinking your Vajrayana friend will have a very good explanation as to why reiki works, and if he doesnt remind him of "Sangye Menla"

And sorry if I am coming across strong, I am not sure how else to put it, but I didnt mean to anger you if I did Vapour....

[Former castleva]

Heheh.I agree with some of Vapour´s stuff.
As for metaphysical/magic tricks/blasts,these kinds of things fail terribly when they reach the unit of "controlled enviroment".
While that was not the exact case here,now talking about martial context,good techniques can be explained by either "ki" or simply physics.If it can be explained by physics/common sense,it must be very valid (I cannot think of a legit. martial art which crosses this)
As explained before in this thread,mystical whoopla keeps curious cats checking out the classes (with this,I´m only referring to teachers who want to make money out of this curiosity)
A good example of a functional art with somewhat esoteric areas would be that of aiKIdo.
All of the stuff is downright clear and can be explained very well,"ki" gets thrown around once in a while perhaps more than in many other arts but it can be read as a "metaphor" for "blah,blah,blah...it´s usually the natural laws....blah,blah,blah...training proper motor responses...blah,blah...". ;)

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Reiki, Fajing, Taiji Push... all manifestations of simple energy at differing levels.. all names assigned to the nameless.. Science or Mysticism? It doesn't matter, if it works.. Mostly, what we see is people defending their own perspectives/experiences, which is okay.. but, to put down others for having differing perspectives, is simply closed-minded.. We can look for the commonality and build on that or we can degrade the entire experience with petty bickering.. What is your intention?

Because a master calls it one thing and another master calls it something else doesn't change what it is.. don't get too hung-up in the words, evaluate the experience..

Be well..

[Vapour]

prana, you didn't sound harsh at all and I'm not offended. I think you worry too much.

Anyway, this might sound very trollish but there is fine line between thinking other's view as different but equally valid perspectives and accepting something which is complete BS. If one consider science and your perspective as something which compliment each other, that is fine and I'm happy to consider it as different but equally valid perspective. But science is not a belief. It is a method to empirical verification, i.e. exercise in proving or disproving emperical assertion. If one assert something which defy science, that is when one lost it. Ki blast is a bull. DBZ is a comic.

On the other hand, there is a very valid method of application of ki concept in medical qigong and martial arts. I have no doubt that, with enough training, one can control heart rate, change the colour of palm, stimulate certain part of body especially meridian point by using your mind. After all we move our limb by our mind. The fact that finger pressuring or sticking kneedle into meridian point activiate certain part of brain are well documented scientific fact as such claim can be easily valified by CT scan. I don't doubt that qigon is good for health and it has benefit which is yet unlocked by science (i.e. scientist discovering how it work in term of body chemistry).

As of clarification, my instructor do not bash other buddhist sect as long as they are not cultish. Similarly, he is on the view that all martial arts style (internal and external) are tring to achieve the same thing. And I agree him on that. However, that does not prevent me from stating, for example, that attempt to learn MA from Taebo huge waste of one's effort.

If you compare taiji"quan" classic with daoist classic or any scripture of meditative arts, the difference is too obvious. Taijiquan is a martial arts. Yes, it has lot of health benefit but so does practicing swimming. (o.k. tajiquan is probably better but you get my point). It also have advice on such thing as you mind have to be calm. But do you think all zen master tell you is to be calm?

I do agree that one can meditate while standing, sitting on a chair or even lying down. But just because taijiquan are performed while standing does not make it as a meditative arts. This does not means that meditation is not important in martial arts nor one can't meditate while practicng taijiquan or while siting in front of computer. In Aikido, many famous aikidoka combine their arts with meditation. However, all of them seems to have sought masters in meditation (shinto, zen and so on), rather than claiming that practicing aikido is enough as a meditative arts.

[Former castleva]

Why is tai chi better than swimming?
Just curious to question,could it be that we are adding additional stuff to where it does not belong?

"But science is not a belief. It is a method to empirical verification, i.e. exercise in proving or disproving emperical assertion. If one assert something which defy science, that is when one lost it. Ki blast is a bull. DBZ is a comic. "
Exactly.
Science is neither elitist in nature.In science,we do constantly have to question our own beliefs and evolve.
A scientific hypothesis/idea can even be programmed to death,by which I mean,to prove it false and therefore remove one possible option.
But Street Fighter is still a great game even though kameihameha (shoryuken) shot only works on the screen. ;)

[dwid]

I have a friend who is a massage therapist. She's very into alternative medicines/therapies, and is very much a part of that subculture.

She is not typically cynical or the least bit judgmental, but she once told me that in her perception, "Reiki is the psychic equivalent of a pyramid scheme."

It's one of the most incisive comments I've ever come across about such a thing, and you've got to admit that the way the training is structured, it works very much like a pyramid scheme.

I'm pretty skeptical about anything that works in such a way. Add to that the fact that there are some pretty scientifically indefensible Reiki practices and the word "placebo" comes to mind whenever I think about it.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..


But science is not a belief. It is a method to empirical verification, i.e. exercise in proving or disproving emperical assertion. If one assert something which defy science, that is when one lost it. Ki blast is a bull. DBZ is a comic.

How often has assertions that defy "science" turned out to actually be science (ie: the earth is flat/round, the earth is the center of the universe, the atom is the smallest particle of matter, etc...) It is our blind faith that science is the answer that confines our creativity.. as Einstein said, "imagination is more important than knowledge".. Just a suggestion: rather than asserting that "Ki blast is a bull", how about "i have no evidence to support Ki blast".. here we leave open the opportunity to evaluate new evidence if it should be presented..

Science is indeed a belief.. it is the belief that observation and measurement are the only valid tools for verification of assertions.. Personally, validity comes from within, with observation and measurement being only a part of the verification process.. instinct and intuition playing an equal role.. Ultimately, the only belief that matters is our belief in ourselves..

Science can measure brainwaves to tell us when we dream.. it cannot tell us what we are dreaming about.. the subject of the dream is verfiable only by the dreamer.. so, it may be the same with so many other aspects of life that are easily dismissed due to lack of scientific measurement.. Keep the doors of possibility open, you may surprise yourself..

Be well...

[Vapour]

Zheng Man Qing (Cheng Man Ching) once compared taijiquan with swimming. According to him we have to perform taijiquan as if we are moving in water. As of similarilty, when you see good swimmer, they don't seem to do much at all but they somehow mangae to move in great speed and power. It's all to do with correct posture, coordination of movement and breathing. Very much like tajiquan. With bad swimmer, they have more stroke per 50m but they seems to take age to reach other end of the pool. If someone can't swim, they even manage to drawn while doing lot of hand movements. Bad taijiquan is often described as handwaving dance probably for the same reason.

As of difference, because swimming is very linear, it doesn't use full range of motion nor idea of meredian being emphasised in swimming. But the same can be said about taijiquan compared with yoga or qigong. There are postures in yoga which are not performed in taijiquan simply because it is martially impractical. Main emphasis of taijiqaun are few major meredian points and dantien while if you practice medical qigong, I assume, focus is entire spectrum of meredian points. Of course if someone swim 1 hours every day and if I do taijiquan 10 minitues a day, swimmer is probably far healthier.

As of my instructor being able to tell if someone used his favourite sword, maybe it is to do with electricity. Since human body has some magnetic field, using same metal object obviously will charge metal object electrically. May be that degree of charge is different individually especially if someone constantly send ki imagiery to sword through his/her hand so that each sword has some sort of individual electric signiture which sensitive individual can feel it. After all, mechanism of how nervous system work is through electric impulse. So interpretating ki in term of electricity is good way to see ki from science point of view. But since I'm not strong in physics, I should stop talking nonsence. But when I have headache, one trick I do is to place my palm in front of but away from my forehead and trying to feel the heat of my palm and imagine that headache is transfer to my palm. It often works quite well but then, sleeping works much better. :)

[Former castleva]

"How often has assertions that defy "science" turned out to actually be science (ie: the earth is flat/round, the earth is the center of the universe, the atom is the smallest particle of matter, etc...) It is our blind faith that science is the answer that confines our creativity.. as Einstein said, "imagination is more important than knowledge".. Just a suggestion: rather than asserting that "Ki blast is a bull", how about "i have no evidence to support Ki blast".. here we leave open the opportunity to evaluate new evidence if it should be presented..etc."

Always the same.



"As of difference, because swimming is very linear, it doesn't use full range of motion nor idea of meredian being emphasised in swimming. But the same can be said about taijiquan compared with yoga or qigong. There are postures in yoga which are not performed in taijiquan simply because it is martially impractical. Main emphasis of taijiqaun are few major meredian points and dantien while if you practice medical qigong, I assume, focus is entire spectrum of meredian points. Of course if someone swim 1 hours every day and if I do taijiquan 10 minitues a day, swimmer is probably far healthier."
Could you approach this objectively?
It is safe to say that swimming is healty but relatively little known tai ji knows of little evidence over swimming.
I remember one time I was reading KFO I saw someone state something like "only if you want to live a short life" as a response to a question whether someone should do qi-gong/related exercise (in which it was later pointed out that it may not be that necessary,this was what triggered the response)
It is this kind of stuff aforementioned that I view as highly dangerous and it makes me hope ppl will not take it seriously (unfortunately some might)
:(

I believe you understand what I mean.

[davethedragon]

the thing with science is that it can both enlighten and hold us back. anything that does not fit into the laws of science are deemed either miracles or rubbish. the laws of science are made by men and men dont have all the answers so therefore neither does science!! although it is certainly is growing day by day.
science for example has not quantifable way to explain consciousness but none of us can deny that it exists!!
maybe reiki , fa jing chi is all in the mind as some would suggest.
some things just cant be nailed down and i vote if they work use them!!

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

i just love these smiley face things!!

[Former castleva]

"science for example has not quantifable way to explain consciousness but none of us can deny that it exists!!"

I think these days some actually study the conciousness itself.
Anyway,these days it is more than safe to say the conciousness is produced in the brain (if not,then all the work of psychology and neuroscience shall be debunked) but to track it down to a certain area is hardly possible.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Oh boy, here we go... not to incite a philosophical debate, but..

It is as equally valid to assert that consciousness exists independent of the brain.. that the brain is simply the tool used to manifest consciousness in the physical aspect of our existence.. the brain/mind may well be the interface between our physical existence and our spiritual existence.. or, as ancient Taoist texts say.. Man (humans) is the connection (interface) between heaven and earth..

Science (psychology/neuroscience) is sort of like the mechanic at an auto shop, they can tune up the machine (mind) but ultimately the driver/owner (spirit) decides the direction and speed of his own vehicle..

Be well..

[Vapour]

Laws of universe are not made by us. We merely discovere it.

Problem with people who assert "emperical" existence of ki/shen is that they are totally aiming at the wrong target. Ki/shen is metaphysical concept. Trying to convert that into phsycis is totally futile.

We know love exist. And science no doubt one day figure out exact brain chemistries involved in love. But can you understand love by studying brain chemistry? Absolutely not. If one want to understand love, it is far better to read poetry or book or watch romantic movies. Or much better thing is to go out with someone or get married.

If you want to understand ki/shen, practice your energy arts be it be qigong yoga or taijiquan. Every moment you spend on physics of ki/shen are wasted moment.

[Former castleva]

"Problem with people who assert "emperical" existence of ki/shen is that they are totally aiming at the wrong target. Ki/shen is metaphysical concept. Trying to convert that into phsycis is totally futile."
Yeah.


"We know love exist. And science no doubt one day figure out exact brain chemistries involved in love. "
I think it has been discovered to a good degree already!! :D
I cannot recall the neurotransmitters and all involved but that´s how goes.
I argue though that it may be a good way to understand such,it´s biology after all.
Alternatively you can go for evolutionary psychology.

:rolleyes: :)

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Too often we confuse the measurement for that which we are measuring.. it is what it is.. the measurement, the description, the explanation are all abstractions of the thing itself..beneath all the science is what the science seeks, what it is.. and, by my own attempts to understand it, it is simply energy behaving according to our direction and awareness..

be well..

[Vapour]

o.k. I might came off being too harsh. Here is a quote from someone which express my point.

"The pursuit of esoterica for its own sake is self defeating and misguided. The discovery of esoteric principles through deep study of an art is not. " - Ian McDonald

And the best description of this thread is

"The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment." - The Wastrel