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View Full Version : Some simple ways to avoid turning your school into a weird cult experience



KC Elbows
03-06-2003, 11:15 AM
Just thought we could come up with some simple rules to avoid creating another cult like group of wingnuts.

In my experience with cultish martial arts, they seem to start from a group who are practicing seriously, are annoyed with people who are running hobbyist schools, sport schools, stuff like that. So, the ego gets a little engaged there, and they think "Well, we're better than them, so our master is better, our system is better, blah blah blah", so they start opening schools, and finding that some people are hobbyists. Plus the master wants his cut from the schools, prices go up, corners get cut(insurance for sparring? That's money that could go to our fliers!). Then, they're in the position where they are selling themselves on being better than everyone else, and no one can ever prove them wrong, because there's no sparring. The instructors start looking down on the newer blood, because they don't train as rough(because there's no sparring because there's no insurance because they needed the cash), the master is still taking his cut perpetually, instructors start wanting to branch out on their own and not pay the master for their work, the master demotes people or some other similar practice to prevent them from branching out, and if he says they aren't good enough to teach, then they can't teach, factions develop for the master, against the master, and the guys who started out just wanting to train hard and honestly have brought themselves as far away from that as they can be.

So here's what I do in my practice and when I am teaching.

1) never use the term master, and never let it be used in reference to me.

This doesn't come up, as I'm still young, but I've seen guys with a tenth my skill get called it, and take advantage of it, which ticks me off when the few guys I know who deserve the title seem uncomfortable with it. If people want to refer to me as a master when I''m stone cold dead, I don't care. At that point, I don't care about anything. They can call my ass Master Ass, I could care less. Until then, I'm just me. I'd rather my name carry any good and bad connotations it deserves without the need for distracting adjectives.

2) never let a school I'm at fall away from sparring. And spar with them.

When I'm old, take it real slow and make it clear that, though I'm in good shape for an old guy, I'm still doing it so that my students don't get the silly idea that an eighty year old man has no more weaknesses than a twenty year old.

3) Make it clear that training hard is good in any field, and that the person who isn't training hard in school X might have trained very hard in medical school, and might right now be saving your grandma from that hamhock that's lodged in her gullet.

4) Make it clear that, for real fighters in all schools, training hard is a given.

In otherwords, don't assume skill by school, but by individual

5) If someone knows enough to teach under me, and they do not wish to be under me, let them go, and earn their own reputation.

Keeping instructors from branching out, especially ones who run schools, is a waste of time. Even if you haven't taught them everything you have, you've taught them enough to run a school. Since most fighters barely use twenty moves, how many forms do they need before they've got a lifetime of work? Fighting to keep them in, or make it harder for others to leave, is just controlling. How many students can you personally teach, anyway?

One art has actually formed an us vs. them approach, and it is actually codified on their website. When their instructors broke away, they went back and CHANGED THEIR ENTIRE CURRICULUM, saying that the guys who broke away didn't have any of the good stuff. It would be like a hsing yi school suddenly saying 'we're a tai chi school, hsing yi stinks' just to be sour grapes.

6) Always be a part of the martial arts community, and involve your students.

This can take many forms. If you like competitions, they can be good for meeting people. I prefer less organized affairs. If you run into someone looking at martial arts books at the book store, start up a conversation, invite them to your class, visit theirs. Compare techniques, spar if it seems friendly enough. Invite teachers to your class.

7) Never become xenophobic as a martial artist.

Just because the style you use is a CME, don't get into the habit of just hanging out/sparring with other CMA'ists. Cultivate the attitude that all fighters are your brothers and sisters.

8) Avoid making convoluted political associations if your only point it teaching what you know correctly.

Okay, I'm biased on this one, I just think that spreading the word usually involves missing every third word. This is bad for kung fu. True, spreading the word is important, but it's also important that some people just teach.

9) Always think of what you do as just another skill.

It's fine to love that skill, but never think for one moment that it is more important in the grand scheme of things than other things. The common denominator I see in cultish schools is that they look at outsiders as either enemies, or lost sheep. They seem to forget that ALL of the great people in history were not part of their circle.

10) If you wish to teach philosophy/religion in your school, be an authority on it, and create some mechanism for debate of those philosophies/religious doctrines, so that, if someone wiser than you comes along, the ideas can become more advanced.

That, to me, is the biggest problem. Most cultish mcdojo's have this sort of 'master is sooooooo wise' thing going on, but I've never seen the proof. Usually, the philosophy seems contrived for a purpose(like discreditting instructors who leave by saying that they are 'not actively thinking'-and that active thinking is important, and, by default, our instructors must be on the right path to be actice thinkers- I won't cite my source on that one, but it's a real example, if paraphrased to make it clearer the actual intent), and doesn't exist to help people. A lot of times, there is some trappings of actual religions(compassion is a popular one), but it's rather difficult to find real examples of the master actually carrying these precepts out. In fact, most of the offending schools who fall into this trap and teach how compassionate their master is, list as the main show of his compassion that he teaches them(again, the lost sheep thing). Wow, thank you master, I thought you were sharing because you loved your art. My mistake.

11) Remember, how hard you train has a direct relation to your chances in a fight. So, if you train harder in style X than someone else trained in style X+1, you very well may win, but that doesn't mean that that +1 is not there, or that the +1 is what lost the fight.

There it is. BTW, number 8 was just me slipping in my own biases, but tough, it's my thread.

Taomonkey
03-06-2003, 11:32 AM
(12) Avoid Bedazzeled satin jackets with school logo, or anything like that.

(13) Dont require advanced female students to sleep with you for rank. Actually knew someone like this.

(14) dont invent your own style and proclaim yourself GrandMaster SOKE of it and then find some Hall of Fame to give you recgonition, for what should be a brown belt.

Robinf
03-06-2003, 12:00 PM
(15) Don't claim some techniques are too dangerous to teach and that's why you don't teach them.

Be honest about what you teach and why you teach it and why you don't teach what you don't teach.

(16) Treat your students as people, not disciples

Rememeber that many are hobiests and don't really want to be pushed into training hard. Also, remind your hardcore students to match what they receive in sparring and no go wild on those who choose to remain light going. If a hardcore student doesn't feel like he/she got a good workout because of pairing up with to many hobiests, then stay after and spar with some other hardcores.

(17) Don't charge $10,000 a year for lessons

Over charging is truly just out of greed and distinct warning signs of a cult--to take all of your worldly possessions, you entire life savings. Many schools have contracts to protect the school from getting cheated. Some contracts have ways out where if you need to leave for any reason, the remainder is refunded. But, some contracts have "death clauses" that you owe the money even if you die. Again, a greedy cult.

Royal Dragon
03-06-2003, 12:15 PM
Never say you have "Miraculus abilities"

For me, I concentrait on teaching correct basics and fundementals. I constantly tell my students the real secrets are in doing a technique right 10,000 times. There is no magic secret forms that make you invicible. I try to convey the principals of the art. My focus is that THEY are the magic, not I'm the source of the teachings. I often tell my students that if they have a clear understanding of the principals and mechanics, they can learn right out of the text books so long as they have a partner to test skills with.

I am trying to instill a real self empowerment mindset in my Taiji students. I tell students I'm a great coach, and I can really help them build their skills. I want them to view me like an old boxing coach more than a martial arts master (especially since I'm far from a master).

If I had a school now, I would try to foster a "Club" atmosphere. My role is to provide the home for everyone to meet and build skills. I don't even like a ranking system. I only want to certify whether or not someone completed the course.

If I ever train someone to teach, I would expect them to open thier own schools independent of me. My goal is to train them to walk the path alone. I feel if you can't eventually do that, you weren't taught right.

Royal Dragon
03-06-2003, 12:17 PM
(17) Don't charge $10,000 a year for lessons

Reply]
Or $160,000 as we have reacently seen by some so called "Masters"

Oso
03-06-2003, 12:58 PM
agreed on all points so far.


Here's a question only slightly off topic:

What do you do if you feel that your sifu is slipping in these areas?

and, yea, it's a personal quesion.

red5angel
03-06-2003, 01:01 PM
Add 2 Corgis to the as mascotts and you have yourself a cult alright a CULT OF DEATH!!!!!!!

KC Elbows
03-06-2003, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by red5angel
Add 2 Corgis to the as mascotts and you have yourself a cult alright a CULT OF DEATH!!!!!!!

Actually, that fairly well describes the sacrificial rituals of Merrypranksters pagan barbecue.

Serpent
03-06-2003, 04:49 PM
18) Don't post any pictures or articles about your style on KFO because, even if you are very good, all the posters will rip you to pieces and you will end up in the Ashida Kim Bargain Bin of martial arts.

red5angel
03-06-2003, 04:51 PM
"Actually, that fairly well describes the sacrificial rituals of Merrypranksters pagan barbecue."

He has 2 Corgis od Death kill people until the food is ready or something?

Fu Fighter
03-06-2003, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by Taomonkey
(12) Avoid Bedazzeled satin jackets with school logo, or anything like that.

(13) Dont require advanced female students to sleep with you for rank. Actually knew someone like this.

Well there go to of my main reasons for eventually wanting to start up a school.

shaolinboxer
03-06-2003, 05:59 PM
I think that by fostering a sense of mutual respect, humanistic equality, group learning, and open debate (including physical debate) everything sorta works itself out and you can avoid the major traps. Any sort of spirtual or personal advice should be taken as just that...advice. Like any advice, you take it or leave it. Hopefully it is the training itself that carries the affective influence (in other words, the practice is set up so if you just do it, you eventually get the point or you can no longer advance in skill). There are two currencies in a school...one is money, the other is sweat. Contibuting one, or both is necessary for the survival of the school. But the more I study, the less I think that a school can be rich and maintain its integrety. So if you are making money, be sure to give a lot back to the students.

Good topic.

-Lyle

Watchman
03-06-2003, 06:06 PM
Serpent is completely and unequivocally correct! That is all.

Laughing Cow
03-06-2003, 06:09 PM
Simple method to avoid becoming a Cult.

Be sincere in your teaching and practice, train hard and you won't have time to turn your kwoon into a cult.

Cheers.

joedoe
03-06-2003, 06:12 PM
Leaving egos at the door is the best way to avoid becoming a cult :)

shaolinboxer
03-06-2003, 06:15 PM
You have to becare when losing your ego. You don't want it to be so lost you can't tell smart from stupid.

Serpent
03-06-2003, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by Watchman
Serpent is completely and unequivocally correct! That is all.

Thank you very much. :)

abobo
04-06-2003, 07:50 PM
Originally posted by KC Elbows

Just because the style you use is a CME, don't get into the habit of just hanging out/sparring with other CMA'ists. Cultivate the attitude that all fighters are your brothers and sisters.


Good points, especially this one.

Vapour
04-07-2003, 04:28 AM
Originally posted by Oso
agreed on all points so far.


Here's a question only slightly off topic:

What do you do if you feel that your sifu is slipping in these areas?

and, yea, it's a personal quesion.

Hmmm, it's a tough one. I had a conversation with my tajiquan instructor about a topic related to this. When you grown old, you cannot be as good as when you were young. And there is a tendency at this point for some martial artist go spiritual.

My tajiquan teacher say he can beat some of his senior instructor in push hand now but this doesn't mean they haven't got thing to teach him. They have their experience, and understandning of arts which take decades.

My guess about your sifu is that he is compensating his decrease in his martial ability with aura of invincible master which is a blind alley in long run. Happen a lot in any M.A organization when they don't make distinction between martial artist and martial arts instructors.

Pointing out that to him verbally may not help but how about training with him or sparing with him, reminding him that he still has lot to teach.

Oso
04-07-2003, 04:49 AM
Vapour,
I was his senior instructor for 3 years before I earned my sifu from him. During that time I taught a lot of his classes and became very much a part of what was happening and would speak to him about specific things that happened that I felt were not true to heart. We had some good conversations but I still felt we were slipping apart in ideals.

I do know he has things to teach me, that's not even in question. Every time we get together he show's me something I hadn't thought about. It's some of the things that are happening that are just too hokey for words not to mention rank advancements above and beyond ability for some very junior people.

thanks for you words

guohuen
04-07-2003, 08:05 AM
And in a strange twist of irony, while Serpent may be correct, most of the posted video clips really do stink.