The term Kung Fu

[Chinwoo-er]

Anyone noticed that the term Kung fu is sitting on a somewhat lower position than it should be ? I mean take a look at this situation I have just conjured up

"What do you do ? "
" I do Karate"
" oh cool !"

"What do you do ? "
" I do Tae Kwon Do"
"Thats nice"

"What do you do ? "
" I do Judo"
"great"

"What do you do ? "
" I do Hung Gar"
" Hung.... what ?? "
"Hung Gar, it is a style of Kung fu"
"oh !!! Kung Fu, thats so great"

Notice that people treats kung fu as one style of martial arts ? It is placed in the same level of karate and TKD while is actually more of a overall term for everything that came out of China. Indeed, Kung Fu should be on the same level as "budo" or "martial arts" in general. The only two exceptions to this is Wing Chun and Tai Chi as they are both so common. Is it the case that we are not doing enough to promote our specific style ? Or should we do a little more drastic things such as abolish the term "kung fu" altogether and just say "Traditional Chinese martial arts" ?

yeah, I know, i have alot of time on my hands.

[David Jamieson]

I am not certain it is all that important.

If someone really wants to know, they will find out.

But for the sake of conversation, the term "kungfu" is good enough.

There are many styles of Karate as well, yet people don't wonder about that.

Same goes for any of those terms, each one has several styles that fall under that term.

cheers

[apoweyn]

I'm with Kung Lek on this one. Kung fu is no more or less generic than karate, eskrima, or any of a slew of other terms. Really not worth worrying about. If people don't get it, educate them. Simple enough.


Stuart B.

[Nevermind]

I have nothing against Karate (or any other martial art for that matter) but it kills me when people think that Karate is a generic term for all martial arts. People always refer to what I do as Karate. Including those who know the difference. What's funny is that when I tell them I study Kung Fu ( I don't even bother telling them what style), they usually respond by saying, "Isn't it all the same thing?" or "whatever!". Sometimes, it isn't worth correcting them because when you do, it pretty much gets taken as arrogance.

[Chinwoo-er]

The reply I was hoping to get was that we should promote our art more so that it becomes common knowledge of the different styles of TCMA

on the note of karate, it isn't the same with different styles of karate as with different styles of CMA. Indeed, there are many styles of Wing Chun as well as Tai Chi and Hung Gar, CLF, Mantis, etc etc. So gojuryu, shotokan, chitoryu, shorinryu, etc is just a matter of subclasses of that particular art.

:o

[Suntzu]

could be worse… people could say that u don’t have good kung fu because you look like a kickboxer… do people have bad karate because they look like a kickboxer???

[yenhoi]

Who really gives a fu ck? How do those types of conversations and perceptions and rankings affect your skill or training?

Kung fu means skill through hard work over time, and lots of it. It has nothing to do with what randoms think or believe. Your hands shouldent care, why do you.

:eek:

[red5angel]

I get all sorts of silly reactions when I mention that I pactice kungfu or the martial arts. From jumping around hiyawing like an idiot to asking me if I can show them something cool. In either case a quick shot to the throat usually fixes the problem.

[Oso]

In either case a quick shot to the throat usually fixes the problem.

that would have been funnier if I didn't read it hear a few months ago. :D

[red5angel]

is someone plaguerizing me?

[Oso]

oh, it might have been you that said it in the past.
I'm not going to try and do a search on it though.
when's the next d&d update??? you have us in suspense.

[Gold Horse Dragon]

When someone asks me if I do Karate or Tae Kwon Do...I simply say No. They will usually then look perplexed and leave it alone or say 'but you do some kind of martial art' I then say yes, I do a Chinese martial art called Kung fu. They usually then say Oh! or Oh you do the stuff that guy did, you know the one with the two sticks tied together. At that point all I say is yes...similar but I do not use the two sticks. Funny!

GHD

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Chinwoo-er
The reply I was hoping to get was that we should promote our art more so that it becomes common knowledge of the different styles of TCMA

Why would you want to promote it? I personally don't want to see a longfist, hung gar, shuai chiao, etc school on on every corner. It can have its benefits, but those would be outweighed by the negatives.

on the note of karate, it isn't the same with different styles of karate as with different styles of CMA. Indeed, there are many styles of Wing Chun as well as Tai Chi and Hung Gar, CLF, Mantis, etc etc. So gojuryu, shotokan, chitoryu, shorinryu, etc is just a matter of subclasses of that particular art.



That's not really a valid issue. It doesn't matter if there aren't 5 styles of isshin ryu - if you go up to most people and say you train in isshin ryu, they'll say "wtf is that?"

[Laughing Cow]

I say it doesn't really matter.

The uninformed great unwashed don't really care either.

When asked what style I do I say TJQ. When asked to demo a few moves the confused looks arive and they say that it doesn't look like the stuff they see on TV.
;)

It even gets more confusing when they see the weapons we use, or watch the 2-man exercises.

TJQ after all is happy & slow waving of arms in the park and done pensioners, ain't it

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by Chinwoo-er
The reply I was hoping to get was that we should promote our art more so that it becomes common knowledge of the different styles of TCMA

Why can't that start with clarifying for people the differences when they ask?

"What do you do?"

"Kung fu."

"Huh?"

"Chinese martial arts."

"Is that like taekwondo?"

"Kung fu is a generic term. I study a type of kung fu called... "


Easy.


on the note of karate, it isn't the same with different styles of karate as with different styles of CMA. Indeed, there are many styles of Wing Chun as well as Tai Chi and Hung Gar, CLF, Mantis, etc etc. So gojuryu, shotokan, chitoryu, shorinryu, etc is just a matter of subclasses of that particular art.

I think if you put goju ryu, shotokan, and kyokushinkai guys in the same room, they'd be likely to disagree with your assessment.


Stuart B.

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by Chinwoo-er
Anyone noticed that the term Kung fu is sitting on a somewhat lower position than it should be ? I mean take a look at this situation I have just conjured up

"What do you do ? "
" I do Karate"
" oh cool !"

"What do you do ? "
" I do Tae Kwon Do"
"Thats nice"

"What do you do ? "
" I do Judo"
"great"

"What do you do ? "
" I do Hung Gar"
" Hung.... what ?? "
"Hung Gar, it is a style of Kung fu"
"oh !!! Kung Fu, thats so great"

Notice that people treats kung fu as one style of martial arts ? It is placed in the same level of karate and TKD while is actually more of a overall term for everything that came out of China. Indeed, Kung Fu should be on the same level as "budo" or "martial arts" in general. The only two exceptions to this is Wing Chun and Tai Chi as they are both so common. Is it the case that we are not doing enough to promote our specific style ? Or should we do a little more drastic things such as abolish the term "kung fu" altogether and just say "Traditional Chinese martial arts" ?

yeah, I know, i have alot of time on my hands.

Here's what really bugs me about this idea. (Yeah, it took me a while to put my finger on it.) You're a kung fu guy. And that's cool. But you sound like kung fu is some neglected orphan of the martial arts world. And it clearly isn't. Promoting your individual style is fine. Great. But don't kid yourself that karate and taekwondo somehow 'have it better' than your style.

Think about it. Someone says, "what do you do?" Other guy says, "taekwondo." Now, do you honestly think that even if the first guy recognizes the term 'taekwondo', that furnishes him any great insight about what it means to train in taekwondo? Or karate? Or BJJ?

It doesn't. They may recognize the term. They may even know some recognizable examples. ("Aikido. That's Seagal's art, right? With all the joint locks and wotnot?") But they don't know. They don't really know what any of that means. And that's as true of karate as it is of xingyiquan.

People's conceptions of martial arts are based on movies, video games, and pithy little idioms that aren't half as clever as the truth. "You learn that stuff so you don't have to fight, right?" Good grief. Ghandi figured out how not to fight without ever putting on a gi. So there's clearly more to it than that. "It's all about using a person's energy against them, right?" Some moves, sure. But sometimes it's about taking one of your body parts and bludgeoning a dude with it. "It's 99 percent mental, right?" Er, what the hell does that mean?! It's largely mental, yeah. But I'm not out here trying to block round kicks with my medulla oblongata alone.

People don't get it. It's as simple as that. Knowing a term or two, seeing a special on the Discovery Channel, chatting with a friend who does it, none of that changes the basic fact that people don't get it.

Experience. That changes the fact. That and that alone.

So for pity's sake, get over the b-stard child of martial arts hang up. We're all in the same boat. None of us are the 'favoured few.' And we're all annoyed when some arsehat responds by yelling "ki-yaa!" at the top of his lungs and starts hopping around like Ralph Macchio on 'shrooms.


Stuart B.

[Suntzu]

But sometimes it's about taking one of your body parts and bludgeoning a dude with it. :cool:
And we're all annoyed when some arsehat responds by yelling "ki-yaa!" at the top of his lungs and starts hopping around like Ralph Macchio on 'shrooms. and the answer to that...
taking one of your body parts and bludgeoning a dude with it.

[apoweyn]

Suntzu.

Absolutely. :)

Sensible policies for a happier Stuart.

[red5angel]

This makes me think of something. There are hundreds of Native American tribes. If you ask a Native American what he would rather be called in genral, it would be his tribal name, however you can't tell one tribe from another in our modern times just by looking, so native american works, it's not the best answer but it is the most realistic answer.
I think it is sort of the same thing here, Everyone recognizes "Kung Fu". Once you mention you practice Kung Fu, then its up to you to decide if you ant to go into greater detail. I find I am often asked what style of kung fu I practice, but it really doesn't matter. If someone seems genuinely interested I will get into details.

[Chinwoo-er]

Why is Stuart "sounding" so anxious about this ? It was a question to think about and I get the feeling that he is so offended that he is hell bent to make sure that I look at like an ignorant idiot. Even if you succeed, what's the point ?

I have thought about everything that has been said here. Everyone knows how the world works in such a elementary level. That is why I posted this idea. There is no doubt that the term KF works. There is no doubt that the majority doesn't know one style from another. But is it completely impossible to change it so that the names of styles of CMA becomes common knowledge so that asking for specification wouldn't be raised in the first place ?

I thought whether or not taking the quesiton a little further for discussion was both fun and intellectually stimulating.

I guess not.

[GeneChing]

I think it's a bit myopic to expect the general public to distinguish between the styles of martial arts, much less the styles of Kung Fu. Most people still mix up Karate, TKD and KF, and that's ok. It makes our work clear. Just explain it to everyone you see. If it bores them, then you need to seriously reflect on why you are bothering to explain. If it interests them, sign them up.

[apoweyn]

Chinwoo-er,


Originally posted by Chinwoo-er
Why is Stuart "sounding" so anxious about this ? It was a question to think about and I get the feeling that he is so offended that he is hell bent to make sure that I look at like an ignorant idiot. Even if you succeed, what's the point ?

Er, I'm right here chief. If you want to know why I sound anxious, ask me.

Anyway, my apologies. I didn't mean to be hostile. But as a non-CMA practitioner, I get as fed up with your assumptions about non-CMA as you get about other people's assumptions about CMA.

And you are discussing CMA as if it were at some sort of disadvantage. Basically, I don't see it.


I have thought about everything that has been said here. Everyone knows how the world works in such a elementary level. That is why I posted this idea. There is no doubt that the term KF works. There is no doubt that the majority doesn't know one style from another. But is it completely impossible to change it so that the names of styles of CMA becomes common knowledge so that asking for specification wouldn't be raised in the first place ?

I guess I don't understand why that's offensive to you. I mean, to my mind, it's more an opportunity to discuss than a hinderance of some sort. I practice eskrima. Invariably, the other guy in the conversation says, "Oh! That stick thing!"

Obviously, there's much more to it than sticks. And now I have the opportunity to teach him as much. To my mind, that's a good thing.


I thought whether or not taking the quesiton a little further for discussion was both fun and intellectually stimulating.

I guess not.

No, I think you're right. And righteous indignation aside, it's been a good thread. So if you can see your way clear to forgive me getting punchy, we'll be back on the right track. Cool?


Stuart B.

[yenhoi]

This is the scenario for someone who really thinks this art prestige is anything real, or anything that matters:

Prestige random:

"You dont have kung-fu"

...

**goes home and tells mom**

Guy who really cares about his 'kung-fu':

"Your kung-fu sucks"

...

**kicks guys ass**

"Ok."

wtf

:eek:
:confused:
:eek:

[ComeToJesus]

Uhhh I'm confused.... :confused:

[David Jamieson]

yeah the Lion Dance vs Dragon Dance thing is an affront to my sensibilities also G.

Even better when you tell someone you like Chinese Lion Dance and they say "Line dancing? I dodn't know there were chinese cowboys!" and then you have to go into a whole explanantion oif the pete townshend album and then show pictures of various lion costumes and Chinese New years events and then cross corolate them back to the album, cowboys and the fact that a lion is not a dragon.

Come to Jesus - Still confused? :D

cheers

[Serpent]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
yeah the Lion Dance vs Dragon Dance thing is an affront to my sensibilities also G.

Even better when you tell someone you like Chinese Lion Dance and they say "Line dancing? I dodn't know there were chinese cowboys!" and then you have to go into a whole explanantion oif the pete townshend album and then show pictures of various lion costumes and Chinese New years events and then cross corolate them back to the album, cowboys and the fact that a lion is not a dragon.

Come to Jesus - Still confused? :D

cheers

Oh man, I hear that!

Stuart, bloody great post! (The long ranting one, I mean).

[Chang Style Novice]

The real question is why should anyone know or care if you do hung gar rather than choi lay fut or hsing-i? The only legit answer is "they are interested in martial arts." And then they'll almost certainly know already that there's lots of kind of kungfu, karate, etc.. I it's Mr. Random who's asking, start with the general answers and get specific if they do. Picture this:

"What are you reading?"

You might say "I'm reading today's editorial column from John Hightower, former Texas Agriculture Commissioner, former editor of the Texas Observer, and founder of the Alliance for Democracy. He's attacking George Bush's stance on Iraq on humanitarian and foriegn relations grounds."

or you might say "The op-ed page."

Both are true, but you have a pretty good idea of how much information the guy really wanted. He's asking because he wants to know if he can look at the sports section, not because he's interested in the article you're reading.

[apoweyn]

Serpent,


Stuart, bloody great post! (The long ranting one, I mean).

Hey, thanks mate! I appreciate that.

That said, again, I have to apologize to Chinwoo-er. It's not that I thought your original question was a bad one. But it did spark a rant. And however valid that rant might be, I didn't mean to target you with it. Sorry.


Stuart B.

[Serpent]

Chin-Wooer, unfortunate victim of a random drive-by ranting.

[apoweyn]

When will I learn to use my powers for good? :(